Leaking pex repair / which tools to buy

[helterskelter]

I have a leaking pex pipe at water meter on the house side. It has several pin hole leaks very close to the threaded fitting that connects to the water meter. I've never worked with pex before and would like some suggestions on the appropriate way to repair and which splices & tools to buy.

To me it looks like an ideal spot for a shark bite push type connector but the reviews I'm reading are hit or miss. Is there a preferred push type connector?

Or does it make more sense to dig it back another ~1 foot and splice in a new piece of pipe with the crimp style splices? If so which cutter and crimp tool should I buy?

I should have measured it but does anyone know what type of fitting the threaded connector is? Or what type I should replace it with?

Lastly how much do you think a plumber would charge to do this repair? If it's only a couple hours it might just be easier to pay someone than mess with it (coming off knee surgery so while I can do it myself I'm not looking forward to it). Thanks for any replies.

 

[darkk]

That should be a really easy fix...

 

[helterskelter]

I agree it's not difficult repair just want to make sure I do it right the first time. Any advice is appreciated. That compression fitting matches the fitting on my pipe. Should I cut it back a ways and use a cinch style clamp to install the splice?

 

[theoldwizard1]

For me, the $200-$300 for hiring a pro would be worth the peace-of-mind.

 

[stonesfan68]

The size of the Pex pipe and water meter fitting should be marked, provided that you can clear the water/mud out enough to to see it. I know people who have had knee surgery and I think that I'd pay a pro to do this repair if I were you.

In terms of Pex tools, see what fittings and tools are carried in the local Home Depot or similar store. That way you'll be able to purchase tools and fittings that will work together and get relatively easily if another emergency arises.

Darkk showed a picture of a fitting that only requires you to cut the pipe and not have to crimp anything. If there's enough good pipe connected to the water meter fitting then you'll be good to go without buying anything except a decent tubing cutter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tim Kennedy]

To my eyes -- at least -- I could be wrong -- that doesn't appear to be Pex -- Pex uses crimp rings. That looks like the tubing they use in mobile homes & sometimes swimming pools.

 

[helterskelter]

Thanks for replies. I'm not really sure what kind of pipe it is. It's blue and fairly flexible. House was built in the 80's but has been remodeled a couple times. I guess I need to dig it out further so I can get better information. I'll go up to home depot and check out the fitting options there. Never seen tubing fail like this.

 

[csp]

Looks like poly to me. Not just used in mobile homes or swimming pools either, depending on region.

 

[nadogail]

I have had leaking pipe like this. I use the Shark Byte water heater flexible connector pipes. I have looped the connector pipes to make them fit in the available space. My oldest Shark Byte repair is 7 years of continued success.

The professional plumbers I deal with will not guarantee a Shark Byte repair, but I will not argue with my own success.

 

[helterskelter]

Thanks for reply. Glad someone else has had success with the shark bite style fittings. It's not the end of the world if it only lasts a couple years.

Going to stop by home depot and see what is available. Will dig out area Saturday morning and repair. I'll post pictures of finished repair.

Has anyone had any luck with the Oetiker style cinch fittings on water tubing? That seems like my other best option if I don't use the shark bite.

 

[kv501]

I have a leaking pex pipe at water meter on the house side. It has several pin hole leaks very close to the threaded fitting that connects to the water meter. I've never worked with pex before and would like some suggestions on the appropriate way to repair and which splices & tools to buy.

To me it looks like an ideal spot for a shark bite push type connector but the reviews I'm reading are hit or miss. Is there a preferred push type connector?

Or does it make more sense to dig it back another ~1 foot and splice in a new piece of pipe with the crimp style splices? If so which cutter and crimp tool should I buy?

I should have measured it but does anyone know what type of fitting the threaded connector is? Or what type I should replace it with?

Lastly how much do you think a plumber would charge to do this repair? If it's only a couple hours it might just be easier to pay someone than mess with it (coming off knee surgery so while I can do it myself I'm not looking forward to it). Thanks for any replies.

Anything to do with water that could potentially cost me tens of thousands of dollars if I screw it up and it goes bad gets a professional called. After buying the fittings/tools/etc. how much will you really save?

 

[doctordirt]

The repair should be made with a compression fitting. The poly pipe also needs a stainless steel insert. I do not believe the shark bites are rated for underground use.

 

[helterskelter]

Anything to do with water that could potentially cost me tens of thousands of dollars if I screw it up and it goes bad gets a professional called. After buying the fittings/tools/etc. how much will you really save?

Probably save a couple hundred doing it myself. The leak is by the street so worst case scenario it could flood part of my yard and waste some water.

I've repaired leaks like this before but it was in pvc pipe. Something I was more comfortable working with. This is my first time I've seen a poly water pipe.

If compression fitting is the right repair I can do that. Are the crimp style copper rings or the cinch style clamps both acceptable repairs?

 

[soj]

That should be a really easy fix...

That diagram shows PB, Polybutylene, pipe. That is the one that was so bad it resulted in a class action lawsuit, and is no longer sold in the US. It was usually gray.

PEX, Cross Linked Polyethylene is usually available in red, blue and white. Your pipe looks blue in the picture. I have never seen (or heard of) PEX failing with pin holes. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

PE, sometimes called Poly, farm pipe or well pipe, is Polyethylene, is usually black.

All have different connection methods, so be sure what you are dealing with. IF it is PB, you could cut that section out and replace it with PEX. There is a special union fitting with the correct diameter on one end for PB, and for PEX on the other end. It requires a crimping tool. Also, IF it is PB, you can transition with a compression X threaded adapter, then use PVC to the meter. There are several options, but the first step is to be sure what material the leaking pipe is.

Another thing to consider... if it failed there, it could fail anywhere else, between there and your house. I know that is a much bigger job, but you may need to replace the line all the way to your house. What kind of pipe do you have in your house?
jp

 

[nadogail]

Granted the Shark Bytes are labeled for use in accessible locations, but the fittings can't read the label.

 

[KenC]

these are cheap and fit in tight places, like the bottom of a hole!
http://www.sargenttools.com/ToolsByTrade/MULTI_PEX_Crimp_Tool_for_3_8_1_2_Copper_Crimp_Rings/

use with crimp rings to repair with a pex to PB fitting.

get a go/nogo gauge to check before turning the water on.

 

[helterskelter]

Yeah I understand the risk that it may fail again but at this point I'm not prepared to trench the yard and start fresh. Everything I've seen inside the house has been pvc pipe. Hopefully none of this stuff is running in the walls.

I'll check out home depot after work and put together a plan. I appreciate all the replies and advice. There's so many options out there that it's a big help to get some opinions from experienced folks.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

My advice...Call before you dig.

Worst case IS NOT that you leave a water leak. Worst case is you dig into a primary and get 7000 volts. Second worst case is you hit your house's underground power and get 240 volts. Next up is hit your gas line. Next up would be you hit a fiberoptic cable and get a hill for 1 gazillion $. After that...maybe hit the water main and get billed a couple grand...or hit the sewer main and get billed about the same.

I'm sure I've left a couple of options out....but you get the picture. There's a lot of stuff underground an none of it is either easy or cheap to fix. Call 811. It's free and may save you a lot of grief.


Phil

 

[helterskelter]

I'm going to dig it out by hand. I should have taken a less zoomed in picture. But the threaded peice is attached to the water meter inside the box in the front yard. So I only need a couple of inches to work in. It's soft, wet clay. Will just use my hands and a small trowel.

 

[rlitman]

That diagram shows PB, Polybutylene, pipe. That is the one that was so bad it resulted in a class action lawsuit, and is no longer sold in the US. It was usually gray.

PEX, Cross Linked Polyethylene is usually available in red, blue and white. Your pipe looks blue in the picture. I have never seen (or heard of) PEX failing with pin holes. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

PE, sometimes called Poly, farm pipe or well pipe, is Polyethylene, is usually black.

All have different connection methods, so be sure what you are dealing with. IF it is PB, you could cut that section out and replace it with PEX. There is a special union fitting with the correct diameter on one end for PB, and for PEX on the other end. It requires a crimping tool. Also, IF it is PB, you can transition with a compression X threaded adapter, then use PVC to the meter. There are several options, but the first step is to be sure what material the leaking pipe is.

Another thing to consider... if it failed there, it could fail anywhere else, between there and your house. I know that is a much bigger job, but you may need to replace the line all the way to your house. What kind of pipe do you have in your house?
jp

The diagram does indeed show PB. PB and PEX share an OD, and use the same rings, but do not share an ID, so the fittings are different.

Your concept of color coding is off though. PE pipe not only comes in black and whitish, but also comes in yellow (for NG use), and the most common color I see here for underground supplies is blue. In my area, blue underground is PE, not PEX. That requires different fittings than PEX.

But blue is not exclusive to just PE and PEX:
http://www.polybutylene.com/poly.html

Exterior - Polybutylene underground water mains are usually blue, but may be gray or black (do not confuse black poly with polyethelene pipe).

If the pipe is PB, and it's showing signs of failure at one point, the whole thing really should be replaced!

 

[Kaizen]

did you call your water dept already? they will have to shut it off at the street anyway. Normally if its before the meter they can fix at a reasonable rate as its their loss or maybe just something they do for free. no way I'd use sharkbite on something like that.

 

[finn]

I the leak is in the street, or before your meter at least, you should probably check with the water company (or city).

They may be responsible for that pipe and any repairs.

 

[pjboy]

ditto finn.

 

[helterskelter]

The leak is on the house side and after the meter. There's a shutoff valve at the meter and before the leak. I was hoping it was on the city side but it is not.

Right now the plan is dig out a couple more inches and splice in a peice of pex with compression fittings. With the understanding that down the road the entire line needs to be replaced.

 

[TLCObsession]

Why not connect directly to the meter and get rid on what is likely PB? Go pex from the start.

I think whoever made the original pex connection did something wrong - I have never seen pex fail with a pinhole.

 

[soj]

The diagram does indeed show PB. PB and PEX share an OD, and use the same rings, but do not share an ID, so the fittings are different.

Your concept of color coding is off though. PE pipe not only comes in black and whitish, but also comes in yellow (for NG use), and the most common color I see here for underground supplies is blue. In my area, blue underground is PE, not PEX. That requires different fittings than PEX.

But blue is not exclusive to just PE and PEX:
http://www.polybutylene.com/poly.html

Exterior - Polybutylene underground water mains are usually blue, but may be gray or black (do not confuse black poly with polyethelene pipe).

If the pipe is PB, and it's showing signs of failure at one point, the whole thing really should be replaced!

Thanks for the correction/update on the colors. I was aware of the yellow gas line (I have buried between 150-200' of it), but not the others. Always learning.
jp

 

[AMCguy]

A little off topic, but I've always had the understanding that it was polybutylene fittings that were the reason for the bad rap, not polybutylene piping it's self.

My house is all polybutylene pipe with copper fittings. When I had it inspected, I was told I had nothing to worry about.

 

[rlitman]

A little off topic, but I've always had the understanding that it was polybutylene fittings that were the reason for the bad rap, not polybutylene piping it's self.

My house is all polybutylene pipe with copper fittings. When I had it inspected, I was told I had nothing to worry about.

Not quite. PB is prone to basically stress corrosion cracking. It's a fascinating phenomenon actually, that affects MANY things, and is not all that well understood outside of the narrow places it has been studied (it is for example a source of failure of stainless steel in chloride rich environments, but is also a cause of failure of rubber materials in the presence of ozone). What is required is an area under stress, AND a corrosive environment. Eliminate either, and you may not experience a failure.

In the case of PB, improved fittings can reduce the stress on the pipe (or perhaps just the stress on the interior of the pipe, where it is exposed to the corrosive element). That's no guarantee that you won't get a failure at a bend or that the pipe is not under stress in other ways.

 

[AMCguy]

Not quite. PB is prone to basically stress corrosion cracking. It's a fascinating phenomenon actually, that affects MANY things, and is not all that well understood outside of the narrow places it has been studied (it is for example a source of failure of stainless steel in chloride rich environments, but is also a cause of failure of rubber materials in the presence of ozone). What is required is an area under stress, AND a corrosive environment. Eliminate either, and you may not experience a failure.

In the case of PB, improved fittings can reduce the stress on the pipe (or perhaps just the stress on the interior of the pipe, where it is exposed to the corrosive element). That's no guarantee that you won't get a failure at a bend or that the pipe is not under stress in other ways.

Thank You. Now I'm off to go get more knowledge.

 

[rlitman]

Thank You. Now I'm off to go get more knowledge.

Isn't the Internet great like that?

 

[fourjeepin]

I just finished cutting out the last of the polybutylene from my house. I had never done much plumbing before and debated for a long time whether to go PEX or CPVC, but went with PEX and am very happy. It was easy to do and I had no leaks from my PEX joints.

On the poly, that stuff is so thin and soft my cutter usually would just compress the tube rather than cut it. I'm glad it is gone.

 

[sixty4]

Looks like Endopure endot pipe. Hard to tell from picture if it's leaking at compression nut? If only there tighten it up. If not Pick up a ford coupling like this and if you can find a small piece of pipe. You will need a 14 and 18 inch pipe wrench a saw and an open end wrench. Of course turn off at curb stop first.

 

[helterskelter]

Just to follow-up. The leaking pipe was 3/4'' polybutylene and it had pin-holes in it in 3x locations. I was hoping to splice in a piece of pex without much digging but there was not enough room. So I had the utilities marked and dug out the box containing the main shut-off and the location of the leak.

I spliced in a piece of 3/4'' pex using compression fittings and a shark-bite pex to poly fitting. Link here --> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007AHH04U/?tag=atomicindus08-20

No leaks and it is all buttoned back up before my girlfriend woke up to realize she did not have any water. All told I have ~100$ in the repair with tools (needed crimp tool and cutter). Eventually I will have to trench entire line and replace as it will inevitably fail again.