Learned something today about three-way switches

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Actually confirmed something in a post to a question I had in another thread.

If you switch the traveler wires around, you change the direction of the two switches.

I wanted the lights to be "off" when both switches were down, but that wouldn't work. After getting pummeled about being too "ACD" a more sympathetic poster told me to flip the travelers around.

And it worked! Now when both switches are down, the lights are off. Both switches up lights are off.

I'm sure the professional sparkies and the senior DIY guys already knew this.

 

[klassenl]

You could have also just flipped the switches themselves.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Yep,Either way will accomplish it. I thought I was the only **** retentive ***** who liked all the switches facing the same way when off.
Ill actually go into room when somebody else leaves and flip the switches all the same way,Im considering therapy for this.

 

[bczygan]

Flipping the switch around would change the orientation of the "on" and "off" imprinting, wouldn't it?

That would bother me too.

And remember to line up the screw slots horizontally. Those people who line them up vertically, well, we won't talk about THOSE people!

Bill

 

[Hawk]

Flipping the switch around would change the orientation of the "on" and "off" imprinting, wouldn't it?

That would bother me too.

And remember to line up the screw slots horizontally. Those people who line them up vertically, well, we won't talk about THOSE people!

Bill

Three way switches do not have on/off imprinted on them.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Flipping the switch around would change the orientation of the "on" and "off" imprinting, wouldn't it?

That would bother me too.

And remember to line up the screw slots horizontally. Those people who line them up vertically, well, we won't talk about THOSE people!

Bill

Only on single pull switches,no on/off markings on 3 or 4 way switches.

 

[nadogail]

Flipping the switch around would change the orientation of the "on" and "off" imprinting, wouldn't it?

Bill

The 3way switches I am familiar with are not marked NO & FFO (or ON & OFF).

 

[bczygan]

My bad!

Do they make a combination 3way switch/outlet?

Bill

 

[7thDimension]

...And remember to line up the screw slots horizontally. Those people who line them up vertically, well, we won't talk about THOSE people!

Bill

See, I line them up vertically because dust can just fall through. When they are horizonal, due to gravity, it is more likely for debris to collect in the slots.

That **** enough for you?

 

[7thDimension]

My bad!

Do they make a combination 3way switch/outlet?

Bill

Yes, but, assuming there's a neutral present in the box, it would only work on the first switch in the loop.

Unless you ran another hot and neutral to the second box, then you could do it on either one.

 

[ssbtech]

This is partly why I use Lutron Maestro switches. It's just a button with a dimmer rocker, no "up/down" to look out of sync. That and they can be programmed for fade on/off speeds.

 

[teamextreme]

What are you guys thinking here? Three way switches change their ON/OFF orientation every time you operate them from the other end. Changing the travelers or inverting the switches is pointless. Example:
You carefully arrange things so both switches are down and lights are off.
Turn on lights at switch A (switch is up, lights on, everything is right in the world)
Now turn off lights at switch B (now both switches are up and lights are off, OMFG!!!)
Now you apparently have to switch the travelers again...
Seriously people?

 

[Doug Arthurs]

What are you guys thinking here? Three way switches change their ON/OFF orientation every time you operate them from the other end. Changing the travelers or inverting the switches is pointless. Example:
You carefully arrange things so both switches are down and lights are off.
Turn on lights at switch A (switch is up, lights on, everything is right in the world)
Now turn off lights at switch B (now both switches are up and lights are off, OMFG!!!)
Now you apparently have to switch the travelers again...
Seriously people?

I was trying to figure out what they were talking about as well.

 

[cgrutt]

This is partly why I use Lutron Maestro switches. It's just a button with a dimmer rocker, no "up/down" to look out of sync. That and they can be programmed for fade on/off speeds.

I use a similar switch but it's just a simple push on/off with dimmer that fits in a normal switch plate instead of the paddle. They're great (but expensive). What I like most about them is how they hold the "dimness" level whether the the lights are turned on or off.

As far as wiring, agree it doesn't make any difference, position of switches when lights are on/off are controlled by the user. If you like them pointing down when they're off you have to turn them on and off from the same switch each time, which kind of defeats the purpose of a three way switch. E.g. come in the basement from garage and turn lights on, go up stairs into house and turn them off is typical use of a three way circuit. In this case, the position of the switches will normally rotate from being off when up to off when down with each cycle depending on traffic pattern. I like to visualize a three way wiring circuit this way, which clearly shows how it's wired and how switches will function:

There are four possible combinations with 2 three-way switches and physical position of the switch will change somewhat randomly depending on how they are used. How they are physically wired isn't really important.

I like to think of the circuit like a train track that can take two parallel tracks, the black one and the red one, in standard wiring. I keep going back to that visualization each time I need to wire and/or work with a three way circuit. Hope this helps.

 

[exranger06]

What are you guys thinking here? Three way switches change their ON/OFF orientation every time you operate them from the other end. Changing the travelers or inverting the switches is pointless. Example:
You carefully arrange things so both switches are down and lights are off.
Turn on lights at switch A (switch is up, lights on, everything is right in the world)
Now turn off lights at switch B (now both switches are up and lights are off, OMFG!!!)
Now you apparently have to switch the travelers again...
Seriously people?

In your example, when both switches are in the same position, the lights are off. When one switch is up and the other is down, the lights are on. (Which is the proper way) The OP is talking about the lights being OFF when one switch is up and the other is down, and the lights being ON when both switches are in the same position.

 

[Tim65GT]

I was trying to figure out what they were talking about as well.

I knew what they were talking about, but also couldn't figure out why. If you are that OCD about it, you will find yourself walking to the other switch all the time to set the switches in the "correct" position. You might as well not have 3 way switches.

 

[Falcon67]

The laundry room uses a motion sensor now in place of one of the 3 ways. The 3 way switch by the hall way door always seems to be up instead of down. My OCD and my right arm play out a scene like something from Dr. Strangelove every time I walk by that switch.

 

[Eriehunter]

I have a female friend (just friends:hitit that lived across town so it was a little bit of a drive, that is the same OCD, she has to flip the 3 way switches in her house so that they orient the same way. She has a twin sister that is also the same OCD. Every time when I would do some electrical work at her house I would go around and mis-orient all the three way in her house. I had a key so she knew I was there. Funny but it gets better.... So she had dogs and would have her sister (same OCD) stay at her house to care for her dogs while traveling for work. I called over there and had the sister get in on the little joke, the sister would mis-orient all the switches before she returned from traveling She came home and of course noticed the switches ...... I got accused of banging her sister (funny, she did get jealous) of course I really played it up.

 

[MikeF2316]

When we moved at work in '03, the warehouse lights had 2 switches at each end of the warehouse. Each switch pair controlled half the lights (as you'd expect). They were out of phase with each other, so with all the lights on, the switches would be in the same position at one end of the warehouse and opposite positions at the other end. It drove me crazy, and I don't even work in the warehouse! Back then I was first in, and opened up the warehouse. One morning I flipped one of the switches over.

I'm like the OP and quite a few others here. Switches in the same position = off.

 

[Shiftless]

see, i line them up vertically because dust can just fall through. When they are horizonal, due to gravity, it is more likely for debris to collect in the slots.

That **** enough for you?

you win!

 

[ssbtech]

I use a similar switch but it's just a simple push on/off with dimmer that fits in a normal switch plate instead of the paddle. They're great (but expensive). What I like most about them is how they hold the "dimness" level whether the the lights are turned on or off.

The Lutron lets you adjust the brightness from both switch locations.
I also like the feature where I can press and hold the button for a few seconds, and it gives me light for a while while I leave the room before it shuts them off automagically.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

What are you guys thinking here? Three way switches change their ON/OFF orientation every time you operate them from the other end. Changing the travelers or inverting the switches is pointless. Example:
You carefully arrange things so both switches are down and lights are off.
Turn on lights at switch A (switch is up, lights on, everything is right in the world)
Now turn off lights at switch B (now both switches are up and lights are off, OMFG!!!)
Now you apparently have to switch the travelers again...
Seriously people?

You can make them so they both are in same position when the lights are off,its not that big of a deal.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I knew what they were talking about, but also couldn't figure out why. If you are that OCD about it, you will find yourself walking to the other switch all the time to set the switches in the "correct" position. You might as well not have 3 way switches.

What can I say,life is all about the details.