learning electrical from scracth

[rieferman]

Well, last night I started my "studying" for my barn re-wiring. I'm reading the Time Magazine "basic wiring" and "advanced electrical" series basically because my co-worker already owned it so it saved me a trip to go buy something.

Just opening this thread to hear anyone's "learning electrical stuff" stories

 

[rodm1]

I am to. Its really all about the code. If I could find a very good simplified code book in plain English that would be helpful. The way I see it the only reason to hire a electrician is for the code now legal that he has and main service work. Most everything else can be handled by a semi skilled home owner.

Everything from the outlet hight to screw size in main service feed are all covered in the code. Theirs all most no way a none professional can complete a code complaint install. It mite be safe but code complaint probable not. Just my two cents.

 

[nadogail]

Self directed home study is how I got started, I later joined the US Navy and became an Electronics Technician. My electronics technical school taught me electron theory and basic DC circuits. Further study and observation met the requirements for employment after leaving the Navy. I purchased the National Electrical Code Handbook from the NFPA; this had all of the Code, plus a lot of explanition and examples.

My work experience, Bachelors Degree, and a Journneyman Certiciate from the IBEW local was enough to allow me to qualify for a job teaching electrical wiring.

I learned a lot from the textbook the Community College District used for the classes I taught.

All of the Self Study books you find will help, none of them will have every answer or be 100% correct; but they will help you get started.

Ask Questions, pay attention and then ask more questions.

 

[ArthurPE]

just releaze what you are dealing with:
you can't see it, smell it, or god forbid touch it...if you can, it's too late...

I have an MSEE
was an IBEW member for years
and have a PE
>25 years experience

it still awes me

 

[His200HerScout]

I'm a DIYer like you, and I think your barn restoration project is impressive. I rewired my basement 2 years ago. I read each of my self-help books several times before I started anything. Then I pulled them back out each time I did something new. I spent many hours Googling how to do certain things and figuring out best practices. My electrical inspector is a really helpful guy, and he was willing to carefully look over my work and offer suggestions. And I definitely had to redo a few things. I'm about to wire my garage, and I'll be pulling the self-help books back out.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Go to Amazon and buy these two books.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0877657904/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The above is the 2008 NEC, real dry, but a necessity to have.

Also get.....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1418050458/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This will do more to help you understand the code than about anything else.

 

[Falcon67]

Good book links. I use a book "Practical Electrical Wiring" but it's old, I think it's maybe late 90s NEC. Lots of internet resources also.

However, if you get to any sticking point or something you are not sure about - if you can ask a master, do so even if you have to bribe 'em. Better safe than sorry. If I need to question something and don't have an expert I can call, I'll hunt a friendly and offer to pay for their advice. Friendly city inspectors - I hear there are such people - can also help. Most of it is pretty straight forward. Understanding the role of grounding, neutral and the service or subpanel configuration are critical. Also things like motors create special requirements such as 220V single phase motor uses two wires and no neutral. Leave room to expand your circuits - you never know.

 

[hidollartoys]

Self taught with several failed inspections.

Just remember that code is the "minimum" standard.

 

[MisterCMK]

The code is the standard. Don't get into the mindset that you know more than the code.

 

[rieferman]

Really glad this has generated some conversation and some great resources too!

I'm really lucky on this phase of my project.. My next door neighbor and I have become really good friends.. His best friend forever is a longtime electrician. I know both of them are "do it right" guys, not hacks.

Anyhow, before I start wiring, he agreed to come over and review all my wiring diagrams that I've drawn (includes a detailed breakout of each circuit), my project plan steps, and I even have printouts from HD of the components that I'm planning to purchase. We're going to do a full walk through on the building, mark studs for box placement (etc.), tweak my wire plan path as needed. I'll trench, wire, hook up recept. and lights.. he'll check all my work, make the main service connection, and wire the new panel.

The good and bad news is that I don't trust any of the existing wiring... so (bad) it all has to go. but (good) I can wire the entire building with lights on, fans running etc. and just tear out the old when new panel is connected at the end.

 

[nadogail]

It seems you are in an excellent situation; Having an available mentor,
Lights to see by and power for tools while making the installation you want.

 

[Bubbles]

Just reamber

Black on brass white on sliver

 

[nate379]

Yup, my Dad taught me that when I was 10. Never read a book but I have wired lots of stuff with no problems. Pretty much learn as I go as with most stuff I work on.

Also the 2008 NEC is above the standard in many places. Here new construction only has to comply with the 2005 NEC since the 2008 hasn't been accepted by the city yet.

You have to comply with an electric inspection to get the meter hooked to the house, but really after that there isn't anything to stop you from wiring what you want.

 

[snorky18]

1) Buy the NEC code. It ranks somewhere between Shakespeare and Greek Mythology on my "enjoyment of reading" scale, but has a lot of necessary info. I had to read several sections multiple times and do some research to understand how to interpret the code. And I'm an engineer with some electronics in my background.

2) If you know anything about firearm safety, the first thing to do if you pick one up (excluding a few select circumstances) is to make sure it is clear, or unloaded, before you do ANYTHING else.

Well for electrical safety, before you do ANY work, use your voltmeter, test light, or whatever on EVERY wire you may touch during your work to make sure that none have voltage, ie they're not loaded. Never assume anything about a wire based on it's insulation color, or anything else for that manner. Always test. Ignorant people wire stuff in all sorts of incorrect, illogical, unpredictable ways.

3) Inspectors are sometimes quite helpful, and it can be good to have a good relationship with them. They can also be quite a hindrance at times even if you are doing things according to their rules. YMMV.

4) Don't go overdoing things and making everything 12 gauge wire even if it doesn't need to be. I did some of that when I first started b/c at the time I was too cheap to buy another whole roll of 14. 14 is a bit easier to work with, and is cheaper to boot. I now keep both around.

5) Never accept advice from people on the internet
Sorry, had to throw that one in there. This advice is worth everything you paid for it

 

[rieferman]

Speaking of inspectors (and similarly, of permits etc.)... and not to derail my own topic but... in general I figure, who really needs to know that I'm doing any work out there? (in my case, I don't need the power company to come out)

I guess that question applies to building permits etc. as well. Like my township requires a permit for putting a shed in. It costs $100. Yeah right, my neighbors ain't looking, who's going to know?

Am I a total renegade? ha ha.. this post will self destruct in 10 seconds

 

[snorky18]

Who needs to know?

Well, if you botch something up, a fire sparks up, burns down the barn, kills someone, burns up your prize beanie baby collection (whoops wrong forum) or your 1938 Ford Hot Rod there is a chance your insurance company could refuse to pay out anything if they could show you did your own wiring with no permit, inspection, etc.

I'm not telling you to do electrical work without a permit. I will tell you what a local electrician told me. According to the letter of the law, you are supposed to pull a permit to make ANY modifications to your existing system. Is replacing a broken light switch with the exact same kind a modification? Depends on how literal you want to be about it. According to this guy, most electrians around here only pull permits around here if they are forced to, which would be new construction, and service upgrades (the local Elec company requires inspector sign off before turning service back on).

So if you decide not to do the inspection/permit, I guess you weigh the possibility of something bad happening and being pinned on you versus the possibility of you doing a flawless job and everything running fine for years. Also consider that the inspection may go smooth as silk or you may have some "problems" come up, such as the inspector failing every inspection that wasn't done by his personal buddy the electrician. True story, in a small town in AR.

Most likely if your stuff is looked at by a local long time electrician I would think you should breeze through the inspection for the most part if you do it.

I have heard there are some places way out in the boonies that don't even do inspections, though I don't know if that's really true. Wouldn't suprise me.

 

[Falcon67]

I have heard there are some places way out in the boonies that don't even do inspections, though I don't know if that's really true. Wouldn't suprise me.

Live there - in a city. No inspectors, no permits. When I went to rewire the house when we bought it in 1997, I put a full 100 amp panel on the house. Called the utility (this is before the break-up and the utility was really local) and asked about permission to pull the meter. They said "no problem, don't kill yourself". When I asked the city manager about a permit to build the shop, he said "Please try to make it nice if you can". No problem. I could build a house and all I'd have to do is call the city to get the meter and sewer tap and then the utility to get a meter. Fortunately, what new construction does happen here is done well because the people doing the work also work in other close cities where inspections are normal. Framing is framing, etc.

One other note about shop wiring - most of my plug runs start at a GFCI and place the others on the load side. Unless it's feeding a machine directly, that is. Be sure and read the GFCI to verify line and load connections - not are are logical. And get a tester and test EVERY outlet after wiring with one of those little yellow three light units. Mr. hot-shot, done this plenty can easily goof one up. Um, er...

 

[rieferman]

So if you decide not to do the inspection/permit, I guess you weigh the possibility of something bad happening and being pinned on you versus the possibility of you doing a flawless job and everything running fine for years.

I definitely hear you... but, theoretically, it would be impossible for anyone to prove that this work wasn't done years before I bought the property. "I didn't wire it... it was always like that". And sometimes I think opening a can of worms with a nit picker inspector (if you draw one like that) is worse than some really simple circuit wiring.

Similarly, what do people think about other permits/inspections besides electrical?

In my case, my building is FAR safer and improved for the work done repairing the building - but some of the structural work probably should have had permits and framing inspections etc. But I know an inspector around here would force you to level an old building like mine because it's not "code", or I would have racked up fees for engineered drawings etc.

 

[snorky18]

I definitely hear you... but, theoretically, it would be impossible for anyone to prove that this work wasn't done years before I bought the property. "I didn't wire it... it was always like that"

As far as when the work was done, I believe Romex has a date code on the sheathing, so it would seem unlikely your barn was wired in say the 1990s or 1960s or whenever with wire dated 2009, unless they had a time machine and came to the future to pay a lot more for copper wire....

And sometimes I think opening a can of worms with a nit picker inspector (if you draw one like that) is worse than some really simple circuit wiring.

In my case, my building is FAR safer and improved for the work done repairing the building - but some of the structural work probably should have had permits and framing inspections etc. But I know an inspector around here would force you to level an old building like mine because it's not "code", or I would have racked up fees for engineered drawings etc.

I hear you about the can of worms. And it's quite remarkable to me what the government wants to tear down in the name of "safety". But it's the government, so it need not make sense to be a rule

Equally remarkable is how tough a lot of old barns are. They can look like they are about to fall down for 30 years or more and just keep trucking.

 

[Falcon67]

One more and I'll shut up - when we moved in, there was this three small panel, dual weather head Federal Pacific MESS on the side of the house. Ugly, one 20 amp handled every plug in the house. Knob and tube in the attic with Romex gobbed on. Scary stuff.

Allstate came to inspect the property before writing the policy - they wouldn't write the policy until I replaced the curled up shingles on the 16x20 shed (that was kneeling down 16" on one corner due to termite damage). That was it, no problem with the rest of it. I said "I'm going to rewire the place damn quick." Inspector said "good idea".

 

[ArthurPE]

there's 2 components to this

1 the knowledge of code and methods

2 the skill to perform the actual install, techniques, tools, etc.

and do it in a quality fashion, in an efficient and economical manner....

I've seen more than one job started by a DIY'er, that ends up being finished by a pro...and usually costing more: rework, wrong materials, etc.

start on a manageable project: wire a dryer, etc.
see if you like it and have the desire to develop the aptitude for it...

 

[nadogail]

If and when you sell the property, the prospective buyer can get a list of all the permits issued for the property. I did this for an older house I bought. I wanted to be assured that the room addition and the high wall ariund the property was permitted so I will be "grandfathered" in when and if the question arises about the property being compliant with the building code. That can be a major issue. Petty stuff, like a permit to replace a hot water heater or replace kitchen cabinets is, in my opinion, just that; petty stuff.