Learning to weld part 2

[SpeedCoach]

I'll continue my public humiliation....go easy on me - I'm learning here!

so fresh off of my adventure (i.e. HACK JOB!!! ) with my first welds the other day....I acted on my intuitions and upgraded some equipment.

The first upgrade fell into my lap - a better pair of gloves that allow me to actually feel the torch in my hands! Best part, they came to me free from my FIL (engineer....was given a couple of sets of gloves at a refinery job and gave me a set....perfect timing!).

The second upgrade is an auto-darkening helmet. OK - this was the real game-changer!! Now I can see where I'm starting - and stay there without the herky-jerk of lowering the shield on my POS static shield. If you're on the fence about getting the auto-dark....get off it and go get yourself one!

So here are some samples of attempt number 2:

Spot welds: These were my test to make sure that my new auto-darkening helmet actually....you know....auto darkened. It did!

So now some beads...nothing fancy...could have dialed in the voltage a little more, but it was just practicing....

feeling a little more comfortable...this one came out OK (I think??)

Now getting cocky I tried joining a couple of pieces together. there are 2 different starts and stops on this pic:

and 1 more:

on the 2 beads where I actually joined some pieces....I should have tuned in my heat a little more than i did (sort of forgot about it), or should I have slowed my torch speed a little???....looking at the back side of those welds (no pics) I didnt think I penetrated very well, but i clamped the piece on the edge of my bench and I couldnt break them apart with my body weight- so i must have gotten a better joint than I thought.

Having fun learning with this! another few rounds of practice and I may start gathering material to build a welding table.

 

[Kilo70]

Looks like fun.

 

[bimmer1980]

practice, practice....

Depending on the thickness of the steel and the amperage of the welder, you may need to put a small gap between the pieces of metal in order to get penetration. Either that or "V" the pieces with a grinder.

you need to work on your consistency of travel speed. Looks like there may be some speeding up and slowing down.

Also make sure your gun is perpendicular to the steel but either tipped in the direction of travel or tipped away from the travel direction.

Having the gun angled side to side could cause some undercutting.

THe key is to build the puddle, then travel at a speed that maintains the puddle.

overall, decent for a beginner!

keep on practicing!!!

Good luck!

 

[csp]

IMO, not enough heat and your wire speed is too fast. You have a lot of weld with little penetration.

 

[DeadSock]

IMO, not enough heat and your wire speed is too fast. You have a lot of weld with little penetration.

X2 ... don't worry about "burning through", that is simply getting too much penetration (versus little/none like you last posted).

Work on manipulating the puddle just before it burns through. Lines/beads are one way, zig/zags another, circles, spell your name, etc.

Also, clean the metal! Your "join" shows no grinding/brushing to prepare the joint.

Not sure if I saw if this is FCAW (flux-core) or GMAW (gas). Get a gas cylinder so you can GMAW. You'll be able to see the puddle and arc easier.

 

[SpeedCoach]

thanks for the tips guys - I'll try those out. Gun angle in particular. There's a lot to take in here....the big leap (for me) today was being able to see my starting point (with new helmet). But I'm having fun learning!

 

[e-tek]

Work on manipulating the puddle just before it burns through. Lines/beads are one way, zig/zags another, circles, spell your name, etc.

This is likely the best bit of "insiders info" or "trick of the trade" I got many years ago when I was learning to gas weld. Unfortunately, no-one gas-welds (OA) anymore, so people don't learn weld-tip and puddle manipulation when they pick up a MIG and start laying weld as though it was a caulking gun

You know those welds that look like stacks of dimes pushed over? Those come from moving the welding tip from side to side. If no one tells you that you'll always wonder why yours don't do that! So as DeadSock says, manipulate the puddle...

 

[Professur]

Never be ashamed of any weld you do as a beginner, and never be shy about asking questions or advice.

Only advice I'll offer has already been put forth ... clean, clean, clean. And don't be shy about burning through ... if you don't do it, you'll never know what it looks like just before you do it, will you? Take a coupon, lay it on top of another and hit the middle of the first one with an arc ... build a nice puddle, then pull away and see ... did you go through?

 

[Case IH]

I'm pumped for next school year cause I will be a jr. But I will get to go to tech school for welding for half of the day!.....sorry it's a bit off topic

 

[crewchief888]

This is likely the best bit of "insiders info" or "trick of the trade" I got many years ago when I was learning to gas weld. Unfortunately, no-one gas-welds (OA) anymore, so people don't learn weld-tip and puddle manipulation when they pick up a MIG and start laying weld as though it was a caulking gun

You know those welds that look like stacks of dimes pushed over? Those come from moving the welding tip from side to side. If no one tells you that you'll always wonder why yours don't do that! So as DeadSock says, manipulate the puddle...

my dad 1st starting taking me to work with him on sundays, i was maybe 9 years old, he taught me how to gas weld. i think it made it easier to learn stick welding and much later mig welding.
ive seen some old timers (like my dad and uncle) lay down some gas welds that looked nearly they were run with a mig or tig.

ive welded up heat shields and brackets out in the field with a torch and coat hangers, that have never cracked again.

 

[Orangestang]

Not bad for starters.Takes lots of practice, when you weld thin metal don't worry about weaving to much or you will burn through,if you can get some 1/4 plate or angle weld that. When you are running a bead watch the puddle and look for the floating red dot thats what you control when you can see that then start making 1/4 moons.When you get better then try welding a T and an outside corner. In time clamp 2 pieces in a vise and try welding vertical. Keep up the good work.

 

[blue dog]

All good tips here so far, play with your heat level and wire speed. When you have things set right, the sound you hear while welding will be consistent. I do C's with the weld puddle and alternating back and forth in a consistent pattern. Try to keep the end of the gun about 3/8" to 1/2" from the puddle, this shields the weld with gas, and you need to manipulate the puddle by pushing it. Go slow. Time is what will make comfortable with welding.

 

[Huyzel]

Use a cursive "e" motion.. take your time and keep an eye on the puddle..

Come out looking like this.. Since your rockin the miller 211 it should come out better once you get your wire speed and heat down.. Make sure the stickout is at the right length and gun at the correct angle..

 

[Interex]

Cursive 'e' is the best method I've found as a beginner welder.

Focus on keeping your motions fluid and consistent. There are also quite a few welding videos on YouTube to help you understand the different techniques. Listen closely as you're welding. It should sound like sizzling bacon without pops or random sparks.

Just be patient with yourself and keep practicing.

 

[socapots]

some good info here.
I am a novice welder as well. And pops and random sparks can be the norm sometimes. lol.
didnt see it mentioned (but i could have missed it) but clean metal is always best to weld.

 

[socapots]

only other thing i would add is practice screwing up (no really) good way to know what happens when you do (unintentionally). Burning through was a problem i had in the beginning (still happens sometimes). But it wasnt until i tried to do it then i realized what i was doing wrong all along...
Wait.. does that make any sense?

 

[MTBob]

Here's a couple more thoughts for you:
Browse through this website, it's got lots of good information and an email "tips" service. http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/
Check out both Miller and Hobart websites for their forums, you find a bunch of folks with a huge amount of experience ready to lend a hand.
Regarding the welding examples you posted: You are running too cold and appear to need more hand control (wavy bead) - like the earlier posts said, Use two hands and practice moving over the weld area before hitting the trigger - make sure you have solid hand control. Using two hands, always lock your elbows on a solid object to steady the tip. Try marking a straight line with a soap stone and run a bead along that line, just on a flat piece of metal to lay a straight bead. Try both "pulling" and "pushing" the arc and see the difference. Pushing will give you a bit more penetration and it's easier to see where you are going. Watch the edges of the puddle, you should see the puddle slightly cut into the base metal, but not too much. Too much cut will result in a burn through or severely undercut bead.
If you can't see the edge of the puddle you are not set up right. Seeing the molten metal is critical, you must be able to clearly see the puddle and move the arc to flow the weld. Try changing the tint level in your hood, too dark you can't see, too light and you can't see. If you still can't see the puddle, get some clip-in magnifiers that fit inside the hood. I use a magnifier all the time... but then I'm an old geezer.
The comments earlier about starting out with Oxy/Acetylene welding is right on. Learning how to weld with OA teaches weld puddle control and penetration.

Post some more photos of your welds after you've practiced some more. It will be interesting to see your progress.

 

[e-tek]

Use a cursive "e" motion.. take your time and keep an eye on the puddle..

Come out looking like this.. Since your rockin the miller 211 it should come out better once you get your wire speed and heat down.. Make sure the stickout is at the right length and gun at the correct angle..

You're travelling from Right to Left here, right? So you're writing the "e" backwards?

 

[Huyzel]

You're travelling from Right to Left here, right? So you're writing the "e" backwards?

Yep.. just depends on how you wanna do it.. pushing or pulling..

 

[v7guy]

Looks very similar to my first welds. Can't say anything these guys haven't already. Practice helps a lot. After you get the hang of it you generally just get better.

 

[Big John!]

When trying to figure out your heat settings don't be afraid to look at the chart on your welder. I've found them to actually be pretty accurate.
Are you using gas? If not I'd HIGHLY suggest it.
I do a lot of MIG welding doing off road fabrication and use many patterns for different applications but for the most part I use the "circle" or as someone else said "cursive e" overlapping each piece by whatever the thickness of the metal is I'm welding. So If your welding 1/8"... make your circle overlap each by about 1/8" and you should be pushing MIG whenever possible.

I never wear a welding glove on my gun hand as I get a much better feel for it with just a regular work/mechanic's type glove. Most importantly for me is I hold the torch with my free hand somewhere near the bend usually with just my fingertips and rest that hand on or near my work to steady the torch and this really helps a lot.



Thought I'd try and make my first post here a helpful one.

 

[HemiRambler]

When you get to the point you are very happy with your practice welds take a piece and cut across the weld with a bandsaw - now carefully study the penetration and profile of the weld. The "edges" should WASH smoothly into the parent metal - the weld "bead" should be perfectly centered on the pieces - the penetration should be completely thru the part. I assume your practice parts are all **** seams - now try it on a overlap seam and a corner joint - you'll start to see that the seam will draw the heat differently than a simple **** joint - as you get better and better you'l perfect each one - but continue to cut samples and study them - sometimes you think they are "perfect" until you look at the cross sections and get a whole new perspective!

The "stack of dimes" was never a requirement by any instructor I had - they always focused on reading the bead - nothing else mattered - because pretty beads are nice to look at but won't get you to pass your tests. Food for thought. And yes I know we all strive for "pretty" beads - just learn what part of pretty really matters. YMMV

 

[crewchief888]

When trying to figure out your heat settings don't be afraid to look at the chart on your welder. I've found them to actually be pretty accurate.
Are you using gas? If not I'd HIGHLY suggest it.
I do a lot of MIG welding doing off road fabrication and use many patterns for different applications but for the most part I use the "circle" or as someone else said "cursive e" overlapping each piece by whatever the thickness of the metal is I'm welding. So If your welding 1/8"... make your circle overlap each by about 1/8" and you should be pushing MIG whenever possible.

I never wear a welding glove on my gun hand as I get a much better feel for it with just a regular work/mechanic's type glove. Most importantly for me is I hold the torch with my free hand somewhere near the bend usually with just my fingertips and rest that hand on or near my work to steady the torch and this really helps a lot.

i do pretty much the same thing,
i thought i was the only one that only wre a glove on my guide hand.....

 

[impulse922]

The "stack of dimes" was never a requirement by any instructor I had - they always focused on reading the bead - nothing else mattered - because pretty beads are nice to look at but won't get you to pass your tests. Food for thought. And yes I know we all strive for "pretty" beads - just learn what part of pretty really matters. YMMV

I've heard similar. Laying dimes shouldn't be the main goal when you are welding.

 

[t100]

i do pretty much the same thing,
i thought i was the only one that only wre a glove on my guide hand.

I was taught mig welding with both hands. my instructor's words are you should never shoot a pistol with 1 hand, neither holding a mig gun.

you should have a chart inside the welder with both heat the wire speed settings based on metal thickness, follow that.

 

[gsport]

looking good... i can't add anything that hasn't been said already. and a great choice in welders, i got a 211 last year and love it.. are those welds done on 110 or 220?? and the only thing i can add is if you havn't already, get a bottle of gas for it, makes a big difference... then practice, practice, practice...

 

[SpeedCoach]

looking good... i can't add anything that hasn't been said already. and a great choice in welders, i got a 211 last year and love it.. are those welds done on 110 or 220?? and the only thing i can add is if you havn't already, get a bottle of gas for it, makes a big difference... then practice, practice, practice...

thanks again for the tips guys! I'm making notes like crazy.

These welds were with gas and 110v (my only option at the moment) using the "autoset" feature. I'm looking forward to the next time it's warm enough out there for me to try to put some of these tips to the test (I hate winter!).

In regards to how the bead sort of "globbed" on the surface of these pieces....considering auto-set was used.....could that be a result of moving the torch too quickly (thus not building the heat enough to penetrate)? Or is it a definite lack of heat? Suppose it could be both..... Should I try the manual settings via the chart and abandon auto-set?

Thanks for helping this Newb out!

 

[gsport]

Should I try the manual settings via the chart and abandon auto-set?

Thanks for helping this Newb out!

i think the auto set is a great thing for us beginners... just vary your speed till you find what works the best

 

[Big John!]

What thickness metal are you practicing on? Looks like no heat from here. Crank that thing all the way up if you want, the worst that can happen is you burn through. Hold the torch with two hands having your free hand resting on your work and make some overlapping circles and see what happens. Don't even worry about putting two pieces together at first.

 

[socapots]

thanks again for the tips guys! I'm making notes like crazy.

These welds were with gas and 110v (my only option at the moment) using the "autoset" feature. I'm looking forward to the next time it's warm enough out there for me to try to put some of these tips to the test (I hate winter!).

In regards to how the bead sort of "globbed" on the surface of these pieces....considering auto-set was used.....could that be a result of moving the torch too quickly (thus not building the heat enough to penetrate)? Or is it a definite lack of heat? Suppose it could be both..... Should I try the manual settings via the chart and abandon auto-set?

Thanks for helping this Newb out!

usually when things are "globbed" on like you say. i would think of 2 things.. not enough heat. or wire speed to fast.. or your moving to slow.. I guess thats 3 things.. loll
test it out. put it on the autoset function.. then try speeding up and slowing down your motion.. see what it looks like.
id definatly try the manual settings. thats the only way you can get a feel for how high you can actually go. how fast or slow..
If you find you cant slow down your hand speed.. increase the heat.. see what happens..

 

[fordmustang1984]

Since i did this last fall, i think i can help...

When you weave, you make so the molten puddle flows into the metal. Also, if you think its not hot enough, it s not. Its onl too hot when the bead is glowing red at the end. (this doesnt apply to sheet metal)

That along with practice will bring you far.

And dont i know it about the auto dark helmets, they are the sh!t!

edit-also try and rest you left arm on something so you can hold the gun steady. It makes a HUGE difference if you are comfortable.

 

[78Bird]

You're doing fine, keep practicing... get more used to the motion and get a consistent speed down... then you can speed up or slow down to react to the condition.

Looks like your speed is iffy, making it thicker then thinner as you speed up or slow down a bit as you weld. practice keeping it constant.

I think you're a little cold and/or a little fast on those. The weld is piling up on the surface too much. When you practice **** welding, look at the back when it cools you can tell if you got good penetration or if most of the gap is still empty, leaving the weld on the surface or not.

Good job on the 211, it'll serve for just about any car or home related project you should ever need to do. Dials down for sheet metal well and has the grunt for some pretty hefty stuff on 220v. Working on 110v when needed is nice too, makes it more flexible.