Learning to weld...

[Openboater]

I'm retired (paperpusher) and always wanted to learn to weld. There are a couple of good shops in the small town I live in with guys who would give instruction at a fair price (I'm really not interested in a full-blown community college course, though one is available in a large city 30 miles away...). Couple of questions:

What techniques would you experts recommend, gas or arc, or does it matter? As an aside, my shop is wired for 220, so arc is doable once I am a little independent.

Are there any other factors you think I need to consider in my quest?

Thanks for any ideas. Tom

 

[#1SomeGuy]

Reading + YouTube + WeldingWeb + a decent mig welder and mask...have at it.

 

[pipsters]

If you have time and a little bit of money, I've read that using the gas torch is the best way to go about learning. Apparently it really lays basis of a good foundation later on.

Me, I had no need for a torch and storing those tanks in my garage was 100% against my HO insurance policy, so it was out. I picked up a MIG. Stick is also a great, cheap way to learn provided you have access to cheap (thicker) scrap metal.

The problem with MIG is it gets the job done but it costs quite a bit to acquire one, and the weld can look nice but not actually penetrate.

I have taken lots of pictures and posted them on WeldingWeb to be picked apart by the experts. They are like having your own personal instructor.

 

[zkling]

What process you learn is going to be dependent on the projects you have in mind. Welding and welders are just another tool, you need to use the proper one for the job at hand.

Personally I'd look at tig then mig then stick arc welding. Gas welding is not used much these days. What is your budget for purchasing a machine? What amp 220v breaker do you have available?

 

[lilredex]

Look for a night school course. Oxy-acetylene gives you the basics, then stick and MIG, for most workshop projects. I like O-A for learning, because you can take your time, puddle, back up, repair mistakes, etc, etc. The others are not so learner friendly as there is always a push to keep going.

 

[jhn9840]

If you take the time to learn O/A then you have a solid foundation in not only the basics of welding but also its safety issues. I went to welding school 30 years ago and O/A was the first process taught for that reason.

jhn9840
John

 

[NHBandit]

I'm a retired mechanic and the one thing I never learned was how to weld. I bought a cheap Astro MIG welder with gas and a rusty 56 Chevy truck. Been replacing rotten cab parts and learning how to weld in the process. I'm getting OK at welding but really good at grinding...

 

[Openboater]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, folks. Although I haven't made a decision yet, your comments make good sense.

To answer one question above, I have a 200 amp service in my barn that supports various things; horse water trough, tack room heat and lights, various outside outlets, the shop, etc. The welding outlet looks like it's supported by two 10 amp. breakers.

For some reason, I like the ascetics of O/A (I know, that's a crazy reason...). And the suggestion of a night school class sounds good too. There are a lot of good-looking chicks in classes like that, right?

Anyhow, thanks. Tom

 

[rsanter]

Mig, tig, arc, gas
In that order of importance

You can try to learn on your own and you will. You will learn to make what looksmlike a good weld and you will learn to make it pretty on yout own with the help of the web and books
But
To really know the science and why behind it will take a more advanced course and lots of time.
That is the difference between someone who can weld and someone who is a welder

Bob

 

[Openboater]

That is the difference between someone who can weld and someone who is a welder

Bob[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your advice Bob--I'm not set on O/A, so the other methods are still in the mix. I don't think I have the time or desire to become a welder, so simply passable welding is my goal.

Tom

 

[ThisGuy310]

I would first learn a fully manual process like GTAW or oxyfuel.
SMAW is also a fully manual process but you don't have as much control of your deposition rate/heat input as you do with the aforementioned.

GMAW is also great to know but I think if you learn with a semi automatic process first you won't have as good of an understanding of your parameters had you learned GTAW or oxyfuel first.

 

[zkling]

To really know the science and why behind it will take a more advanced course and lots of time.
That is the difference between someone who can weld and someone who is a welder

Bob

I respectfully disagree. Just because someone has the book knowledge doesn't mean they can pass x ray on a certain process. Likewise just because someone can lay down some solid welds doesn't mean they know how the silicon content of their filler rod effects the weld or something else like that. I know a guy that has a BS degree in weld engineering, can't lay down a bead to save his life, yet can NDT analyze a weld to the T.

 

[dwatsonkc]

I learned what I needed to get started in 1 week. It was a a lot of fun and met some new friends. I was one of the few from the midwest...

http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/institute.php

Took the class in June, and now far along on a car restoration. I bought a TIG/MIG/Plazma, and Oxy/Ace after the class....

 

[Smudgemo]

Tom,
Go to youtube and search for Steve Bliel's welding videos to give you some information on various types of welding. Unlike laying down a bead, I think a lot of the really super-important safety stuff is easy to convey via a video. They can get you started in the right direction if you can't find a class or guy with experience.

Two things I will note are it seems like you'll get a lot of differing advice. Keep that in mind when you want to consider something as "the gospel." Second, and maybe it's just here, but my local shops aren't all that into O/A. They know electric welding and can more readily answer questions on it.

I have a MIG, but I really like gas welding and brazing. One cool option with an O/A setup is you can buy LP tips for a backup fuel when your Acet runs out on Saturday afternoon. Can't weld with LP (I understand), but you can braze and cut, and it's quite a bit cheaper with availability at any gas station.

 

[rsanter]

I respectfully disagree. Just because someone has the book knowledge doesn't mean they can pass x ray on a certain process. Likewise just because someone can lay down some solid welds doesn't mean they know how the silicon content of their filler rod effects the weld or something else like that. I know a guy that has a BS degree in weld engineering, can't lay down a bead to save his life, yet can NDT analyze a weld to the T.

Z
you completly misunderstood what I was saying.
to truly be a welder requires training, bookwork, and lots of practice.
you must have all of those. any one of those missing and you are not a welder.
I spent years being a guy that can weld and I made very nice welds. as I learned the science behind it and how the metal reacts, that made me a much better guy that can weld. I am not sure after all this time I am even concidered a welder yet

I was just giving some perspective in relation to whats the OPs goal may be.

bob

 

[mjb]

If you have the opportunity to have someone teach you, do it.

When I was learning I had a tough time keeping my torch angle consistent. Having my teacher observing and reminding me cured me of that.

I learned to weld 30 years ago and can still hear my teachers voice.

An instructor can stop bad habits before they set in. At least for me, that is.

Good luck!

 

[sberry]

You want results, you want to fix a few things and build some hobby stuff. There is a right machine for you, it is a 190-211 class mig. Its the first and might be the only machine you need.

 

[bgarrett]

I disagree with others but it may be because of the order in which I learned.
You can get a cracker box stick welder for about $100 so its your cheapest way in. It will do mild steel except for sheetmetal. Next I got oxy/acetylene. Excellent choice because it heats, it cuts and it welds. With a Henrob, you can weld cast iron. I do. Its More expensive than a cracker box. I dont see any need for mig if you have gas and stick, Next up for me to get a tig. its the most expensive but will do aluminum, sheetmetal, and stainless I've been welding since 1974

 

[Sureshot]

He wants to weld not be a welder. Most welds and homebuilt things are 10x stronger than they need to be. Mig is obviously the first choice once you get past all the BS. OA may be a good place if you will learn every way to weld and make a career out of it or that is what they did 30 yrs ago. Mig for ease of use and instant results, stick for cheap machine and relative ease of use.

 

[gsport]

I too waited till I retired to start welding. Get a good welder, I bought a millermatic 211 and practice, practice, practice. What I liked about the 211 is the autoset feature. Set your wire size and metal thickness and you'll be set pretty close. Good luck and have fun.

 

[BD1]

What type of metal thickness are you planning on using ? Stick buzz boxes are great to start with. AC/DC is your best bet, cheap.
If you want to do sheetmetal and 1/4 or even 3/8 metal, the Miller 211 mig autoset as mentioned will fit your needs. It is even 110/220 volt machine.

 

[Mike F]

I, like you, just wanted to learn how to weld. If for know other reason just to be able to. Maybe build some things, maybe fool around with brazing and create some "artwork" ( look at www.gsegmedia.com). I decided on oxy-acetylene. Went out and bought a Victor performer series torch and then the tanks from a local welding gas supplier. I watched a lot of videos on youtube, read some sections of books (one of which is "The Welding Bible" by Don Geary- good book by the way), got over my fear of blowing things up, and started to lay down some beads. I am practicing w/16 gauge sheet steel. My welds seem to be strong with good penetration, but I feel that I need someone with experience to guide me. I looked around my area but could not find night classes or any tech school classes other than those for certification, which is beyond what I want and need. My wife then put in an ad in the local paper and just last week a retired welder contacted me and offered to help me. Doesn't even want to get paid. He said that someone taught him and he wanted to pass on the skill. I suppose it also occupies some of his time. I look forward to meeting him soon. I also met a guy through welding web forum and have been emailing him as well. He is a doctor like myself whose family thinks he is crazy ( as does mine). I will be going to him to learn TIG. An added benefit of O/A for me at least, is to be able to use the "hot wrench" to remove frozen nuts from exhaust studs if/when I change my exhaust to headers. And using fire is just plain cool. Good luck.

 

[sberry]

I had some hand surgery, the doctor is a welder, has 2 feeders.

 

[fnieto]

Buy a nice MIG machine, practice practice practice. At the stage in your life just start building stuff. If you find yourself advancing, then go for a TIG machine. To be honest, unless you get into specialty welding your TIG will sit more than used.
I have six different types of welding machines (millers) I have made a nice living with this skill (and others). Mig is the most versatile for general fab/repair.
The one caution I can't over emphasize, Hot work is a sure way to burn down a house/shop.
You need to keep all combustibles away from your "Hot work" area.
I had the privilege of serving in the Navy (welder) some 25 years ago and they drove home the point of hot work fire watch.
Good luck Amigo

 

[sberry]

This is a place ones own experience does not make for good advice. Amount of years doesn't seem to be a huge factor in qualifying advice either. But there is a reason the small mig market has become the most competitive in the tool world, a reason Miller, Hobart Darrel and the guys on the red team devote so much time and effort to this dinky machine.

They have made it affordable and they made it good and this class is just big enough to allow real work. Its not for real structural work, not that it cant be done but too slow and uses small spools of wire, its not that its not good enough, these have a super arc. They are a 030 solid wire C25 machines.

If you are in to specialty motor sports, have some real reason to do exotic alloy or have money to flush then a tig is for you. If you do nt own a feeder like the 211 you need one. Find a bud with one and slip hiom a few when there is no other way around it or as in my case the spool gun has replaced the tig.

This is in a general repair shop though,, not for hire for tig, but I don't need it, can count on one hand the last several years I had to tig something although I replaced the rotton hose just in case. My 300 is a cart for a 210 and a plasma.

Having said you only need one machine,,, I do use some sticks for a couple reasons. I have extensive shop, a lot of farm equipment and on occasion an alloy rod but mostly out of position pit stop repairs outside and because we can.

A torch does work but is way too expensive and slow unless needed, if you got nothing else a rock is a hammer but the modern mig eats this work for a snack.

 

[sberry]

I got 10 times the stuff even the most dedicated home / hobby / part time crowd has and could do 99% of it with a small mig if its all I had. I use it on 80% of it now, maybe more. I do have bigger machines, occasionally use a 250 mig but its for economics. I am a career welder and farmer, have done contracting so it makes sense for me to have or keep what I got,, but that's a different issue than do I need it.

I think real "good" or semi complete shop has a stick welder in addition to a small mig for problem solving and machinery repair. An AC/DC is ideal, cheap and great insurance to have when you need it you need it situations arise.
I like stick for overhead on equipment repair.

 

[sberry]

Not very straight but smooth. Overhead, 3/32 7018 about 90A or so.

 

[sberry]

Every once in a while I get a rude awakening and now can have some perspective from when I was a kid or to early 30's when I was welding some. A while back I thought I might have a shot at a free test so I figure will step in to the booth so I could be a wise azz and tune up a little.
Well, its about like excercize, I had to fix up a cheater and run 15 rods a day for 9 days before it kicked in. Nothing I weld on a daily basis, a rod here or there is an issue but I would have been in a bind in a test.

Modern welding hoods are a marvel, so much better.

 

[sberry]

Used structural steel was easier to find years ago, farm equipment more crude, the world has lighten up a couple gages. Ideally a guy would have an 023 machine, 030 and 035 but most have to compromise. Really 023 is too small for me unless I was doing sheet restore work in particular, the larger 030 wire allows near twice the output from the 200 class machine.

Good enough to build a one off welding bench.

 

[Openboater]

Thanks all for the great ideas. I've copied many of your responses in to a Word doc for future reference. Now I have some decisions to make, eh? Tom

 

[justanengineer]

Schools usually teach 1. gas 2. stick 3. tig 4. mig 5. inspection/other processes for very good reasons, ease of control/ease of learning being a major one. I would suggest going in that order and taking an organized class if possible. Ive known many weldors, most are good at one or two processes but few are good at more, teachers tend to be really good on all IME. JMHO, but its very easy to get into bad habits or think you know what youre doing, having another set of eyes (knowledgeable teacher) helps prevent that, and a good teacher will also teach you more in a semester than many learn in a decade on their own. Trying to teach yourself by reading the net is a great idea, except 99% of it is bs pure and simple, and its not exactly interactive. I really wish Id have broken down and taken the classes sooner.

Personally, I rarely use mig, preferring tig or stick for 95% of my work. 4% is gas welding, the other 1% mig.

 

[great white tj]

I started out with a HH 140 and flux wire. I just started burning wire, and reading things on the net.This site has a lot of good info, as does welding web.com Miller Welders, and Hobart and a few more. I do not weld for a living.... hell I don't do anything if I think need a nap...My self like others here have moved up in to bigger welders, I still have the 140, along with a MM211, and a Miller 252. As for stick I have small lunch box 100amp stick welder.The stick Gods and I just don't click.....All you have to do is burn wire until you feel you have it right, and then keep burning wire. you will pick this up in know time.....Welding is easy!!!!! Building with Rocks is Hard...when was the last time you saw someone building a Pyramid!!!!!

 

[zkling]

I have six different types of welding machines (millers) I have made a nice living with this skill (and others).

Would you mind elaborating on that? There has to be some redundancy in there.

Openboater (Tom), can you please give an example of the types of project you want to undertake with the a welder? It would help to suggest a process then machine that is going to be most suited to you. Again right tool for the job type thing.

Z
you completly misunderstood what I was saying.
to truly be a welder requires training, bookwork, and lots of practice.

O, I completely understood what you wrote; I'm pretty proficient at the English language. My statement still stands. Go grab 10 certified "welders" from different fields. I'm sure they all can lay down a fantastic bead, and are very good at their job of making a safe most likely life threatening weld. Likewise, I'd be willing to bet less than half, would be able to tell you the technical science behind their process parameters. Majority of critical weldments in industry are spelled out by a desk person, typically an engineer with a background in metallurgy; specifying filler, gas type, interpass temp, root vs cap and so on and so for. In most cases the person writing those specs needs the weldor more than the weldor needs said desk person.

 

[Openboater]

Openboater (Tom), can you please give an example of the types of project you want to undertake with the a welder?

Sure. For example my local guy just added an upright structural piece to my sailboat trailer that supports the bunks mid-span to give more even support to the hull when I trail the boat. I wouldn't mind doing a couple more mods that make launching and retrieving easier.

I'd like to build a frame for the bed of my Toyota PU so I could put side boards on it to haul compost.

I'd like to fabricate a metal fire pit for sitting next to and drinking cheap red wine in the coming chilly fall evenings.

Stuff like that... Tom

 

[zkling]

It sounds like all steel, what is your trailer? Do you have any big plans for aluminum or other non ferrous metals? What about stainless?

I'd agree with Sberry, you sound like a poster child for the 200amp class, possibly 115/230v input compact mig machine.

 

[neonnblack]

I just got a Hobart 210mvp. Its a very very nice machine and incredibly user friendly. The amp/feed chart on the case is fairly accurate, although i have had to turn down or up the amps from what it calls for, which really isnt a big deal. If you buy by the 28th you can get the 50 off 250 or more at northern tool, making the total 800.

 

[RedBKM]

Do what most beginners do (including myself). Go buy a Hobart 140, auto darkening helmet, gloves and a hammer. Within 20 minutes of opening the box you'll be making some OK flux core beads. They'll be pitted and nasty but keep playing and you'll get it. Later you can add a gas bottle and expand your capabilities.

If you shop around you can get a whole setup for 500-600. Tractor Supply was recently giving a free auto helmet with the HH140 for $449. Best value out there IMO.

 

[fnieto]

Would you mind elaborating on that? There has to be some redundancy in there.

Openboater (Tom), can you please give an example of the types of project you want to undertake with the a welder? It would help to suggest a process then machine that is going to be most suited to you. Again right tool for the job type thing.



O, I completely understood what you wrote; I'm pretty proficient at the English language. My statement still stands. Go grab 10 certified "welders" from different fields. I'm sure they all can lay down a fantastic bead, and are very good at their job of making a safe most likely life threatening weld. Likewise, I'd be willing to bet less than half, would be able to tell you the technical science behind their process parameters. Majority of critical weldments in industry are spelled out by a desk person, typically an engineer with a background in metallurgy; specifying filler, gas type, interpass temp, root vs cap and so on and so for. In most cases the person writing those specs needs the weldor more than the weldor needs said desk person.

Redundancy? Maybe a little.
1) Miller 350P mig with spool gun medium to heavy fab work.
2) Miller 250 Mig for lite to medium fab work and a back up
3) Miller Thunderbolt 225/150 AC/DC stick for hard facing (not used often).
4) Miller Syncrowave 250 DX with H2O cooled torch.
5) Miller Bobcat 225 medium structural and field repair of heavy equipment.
Gas powered unit.
6) Miller *********** spot welder up to .120 sheet
7) Lincoln 110 vac. with 10# flux core wire for light outside field work.
I guess its seven machines
I also still own a full size Oxy/Accet rig for mostly for preheating,heating and bending but still have several victor torches.
Most cutting is done with a Hypertherm 1250 on a CNC plasma table (5'X10').
Again, my humble opinion for a guy wanting to start welding would be a nice 220vac mig.

 

[ZRX61]

Schools usually teach 1. gas 2. stick 3. tig 4. mig 5. inspection/other processes for very good reasons, ease of control/ease of learning being a major one. I would suggest going in that order and taking an organized class if possible.

Many, many years ago....When I took welding classes it was allowable to sign up for more than one class. I had an intro class with stick & O/A, Basic Mig, Basic Tig & a welding blueprints class. All 4 classes were 16 weeks. Think I was attending about about 16-18 hours a week.
Odd thing was that at the same time I was doing some autobody classes & part of that included 2 weeks of welding. Instructor in that class couldn't work out my vast improvement over those 2 weeks.

Second semester I took Advanced Mig, Advanced Tig & Structural Stick. There were other classes after that 1st year.

 

[Sureshot]

It sounds like all steel, what is your trailer? Do you have any big plans for aluminum or other non ferrous metals? What about stainless?

I'd agree with Sberry, you sound like a poster child for the 200amp class, possibly 115/230v input compact mig machine.

Shocker