Leather Ring handles--repair?

[Brad54]

I'm refurbishing an old Marbles hunting knife that I found at my Grandma's estate auction close to 20 years ago. It was beat and neglected badly.

I've noticed in the past with leather ring handles on hammers or knives, that once they come apart, they never seem to go back together securely.... there always seem to be rings that "wander" out of formation.

The leather rings from this knife came off in three separate groups, with another loose individual ring.

I'm not to the point of final assembly yet, but in mocking them up, I can see that there will be some imperfect fitment between the segments.

When these were originally made, were they drawn together and held tightly strictly by the force of the handle being screwed unto the tang? Or was there a little adhesive of some kind between the rings?

The rings aren't actually dry-rotted or anything, though they are fairly hard. They've got a few permanent dents in them, and some scuffs. I'm going to soak them all in hot mink oil for a few minutes to bring back their feel.

Wondering if that alone might be enough to have them all tighten up real snug when I screw the handle back onto the tank and finish the project.

Thoughts?

-Brad

 

[Gotcha640]

Pictures?

The only thing I can think to change would be to put it back together dry, maybe even shorten the area they go on, and then oil.

I would also wonder if the oil would be seeping out for a while after reassembly. Would something that dries harder, like wax or linseed oil, be better?

 

[Brad54]

I always used mink oil to water-proof my expensive hunting boots when I was in college, and my girlfriend used it in bulk to restore neglected saddles and tack for her horse farm. It's waxy, until you heat it, then it returns to a waxy state when it cools.

-Brad

 

[Larryjones]

Don't use the oil. Gently take the washers apart if they will, don't force, and keep them in order. Soak them in water till they swell up and stack on a bolt, or the tang if you want, tighten them down and leave a few days until they are thoroughly dry. Coat both sides with rubber cement or contact cement and glue together onto the tang. if they are loose on the tang, uses a bit of epoxy to fill the gaps. Tighten the pommel down and then gently sand to clean up any rough edges and generally renew the handle. If the the tang seems too long for the leather you have, I would add leather or other spacing material instead of shortening the tang.

 

[woody 73]

I was reading this somewhere not sure where anymore but it did the trick. The article said if all you needed was to rejuvenate the old leather rings was to take a spoon full of Vaseline and set it in he hot sun till it melted then work that into the handle and let it dry, repeat if needed.

All I know is that after it melted in the hot sun and I applied it to the handle I must have turned my back for maybe a few seconds and that old leather soaked it up that fast Still looks good. But then again the rings had not separated like in the case of the op.

 

[safariknut]

Brad:
I had a Marbles Woodcraft pattern knife that had suffered the same fate long before I got it. My solution was to make sure all the leather spacers were in the correct original position and then I shortened the threaded tang and re-installed the nut.I made a tool for this by taking an old stubby screwdriver and filing a notch in the center of the tip using a Swiss pattern file.
In retrospect I probably should have made an additional spacer from an old leather belt and installed it but I didn't really care about originality on the knife.
I would not advise soaking the spacers in mink oil as it tends to make them too soft and they will compress too much when being installed on the knife.I have used food grade mineral oil on leather knife handles(on the knife) and then lightly sanded them to ensure uniformity and then buffed them with Mother's Mag wheel Polish which i use to polish blades as well.
If the spacers are really dried out I would advise tightening the pommel nut too tightly as it is liable to crack them.

 

[Brad54]

Thanks guys!
Safariknut: sounds like you've been through this exact thing before.
On the Marble's knives, you know the black and red pieces at the ends, with the thin brass pieces between them? On mine, the little brass guard between the blade and the handle was bent back, and it folded that red piece--the red piece is unsalvageable, so it's a little shorter overall. But I don't want to add a piece of leather because that just won't look right at all. It won't match, the contour won't be right.
I MIGHT get a new piece of brass and make a larger guard. If I do that, I'll get a thicker piece while I'm at it to take up the slack. My girlfriend suggested that I don't want to make the knife perfect "Like you just walked into a store and bought it... if you wanted something without some flaws and character, you should have walked into a store and bought one." She makes a good point. The original brass piece has a bunch of knicks in it that won't come out.

I don't want to fill the handle with epoxy, because then I'll NEVER have any options with the knife. Then again, it's not a priceless heirloom--Marbles knives are nice, but they aren't rare, or even expensive. They're just good, solid, dependable old-school knives.

The leather rings aren't brittle, they're just pretty stiff, and I'd like them to have a little "give" to them so I can tighten the pommel.

I stopped at the pawn shop yesterday and bought a sacrificial screwdriver to cut the notch--apparently great minds think alike!

Here's a pic of one from the net--not mine, but same style. Mine is in worse shape... well, was. What I like about it is the curve of the blade will be excellent for skinning, and on the back there are ridge, so you can put your thumb on it for more pressure going through joints. This will become my regular deer knife.

I don't have a sheath for it, but I don't like Marble's sheathes anyway--they're thin and flimsy. I have one for my other Marble's. I know a friend that makes leather holsters and other goods, and I'll have him make a sheath next month when I have him make me a new set of moccasins for deer hunting.

-Brad

 

[safariknut]

Thanks guys!
Safariknut: sounds like you've been through this exact thing before.
On the Marble's knives, you know the black and red pieces at the ends, with the thin brass pieces between them? On mine, the little brass guard between the blade and the handle was bent back, and it folded that red piece--the red piece is unsalvageable, so it's a little shorter overall. But I don't want to add a piece of leather because that just won't look right at all. It won't match, the contour won't be right.
I MIGHT get a new piece of brass and make a larger guard. If I do that, I'll get a thicker piece while I'm at it to take up the slack. My girlfriend suggested that I don't want to make the knife perfect "Like you just walked into a store and bought it... if you wanted something without some flaws and character, you should have walked into a store and bought one." She makes a good point. The original brass piece has a bunch of knicks in it that won't come out.

I don't want to fill the handle with epoxy, because then I'll NEVER have any options with the knife. Then again, it's not a priceless heirloom--Marbles knives are nice, but they aren't rare, or even expensive. They're just good, solid, dependable old-school knives.

The leather rings aren't brittle, they're just pretty stiff, and I'd like them to have a little "give" to them so I can tighten the pommel.

I stopped at the pawn shop yesterday and bought a sacrificial screwdriver to cut the notch--apparently great minds think alike!

Here's a pic of one from the net--not mine, but same style. Mine is in worse shape... well, was. What I like about it is the curve of the blade will be excellent for skinning, and on the back there are ridge, so you can put your thumb on it for more pressure going through joints. This will become my regular deer knife.

I don't have a sheath for it, but I don't like Marble's sheathes anyway--they're thin and flimsy. I have one for my other Marble's. I know a friend that makes leather holsters and other goods, and I'll have him make a sheath next month when I have him make me a new set of moccasins for deer hunting.

-Brad

Where you have the knife already apart you could always make extra brass spacers and add one to each end;depending on how thick a piece you need.The red plastic piece should be fairly to replace.If you can't get an exact color match fabricate all new red pieces.
I have a small collection of Marble's items including a wrist compass that belonged to a good friend's grandfather. As for them being valuable or not I guess it depends on what you consider valuable. I recently acquired at an estate sale(fancy name for a garage sale)a Marble's model 81 fish knife. Apparently they were only made for a couple of years prior to 1907. A fellow knife collector looked up a price on one and in mint condition(which this one is FAR from being)books for $1200 to $1500. He offered me $100 for it and I have since been offered $350 by another collector. Not too bad considering I only paid 75 cents for it! Here are a couple pics.The first and last pics are of new model knives made after 2000.
EDIT: Forgot to include the Woodcraft(top knife).This was taken before I repaired it and you can see the end of the tang sticking out in the picture. The other knives are Woodcraft copies by Union Cutlery Co and Remington dating to the 1930's.

 

[Outlawmws]

Either Woody's or Safari's method will work, but the condition of the leather is an issue. It's old and has dried and shrunk, which is why it is loose. Conditioning the leather helps overall for longer life, but I agree you don't want to over-soften it.

I'd try to keep from needing to shorten the tang, since it is both a collectible and a user.

 

[tym]

I've personally moved away from oils for leather and like to use Pecard leather dressing for boots, belts, bullwhips, and the like.

 

[bsg1]

as with gunleather, i would not suggest using any conditioning agent that has potential to soften the leather.