leave extra conductors in panel?

[sky jumper]

in an effort to get past final inspection I'm doing the bare minimum wiring on my garage. but I'd like to run a bunch of extra wires now so I can add more dedicated circuits later without having to pull new wires through conduit that already has a bunch of wire in it.

so - can I run a bunch of extra wires now and just leave them unattached in the panel with a wire nut on the end and bunched up in the corner, or do inspectors balk at that?

I know it might look ghetto, but frankly I wish someone had done that in my house when it was built. would've save me some serious headaches just trying to get a couple new circuits in.

 

[rlitman]

You can. But it is certainly frowned upon. Plus you'll eventually have the fun of having to identify those wires when you need them. Are these circuits already planned out? If so, why not just wire them up? Or, why not just use conduit that's large enough so that adding later won't be an issue?

 

[sky jumper]

I was planning to tape each end for ID. the circuits are not planned out, but I know I'll need a bunch more lighting and power I just don't know exactly where yet. I'm running 3/4 pipe out of the panel and I'd rather keep it to one pipe. yes I could easily add more pipes in the future, but I'd rather avoid a mess of pipes running all over the place since I don't plan to drywall this garage.

he may frown, but can he fail me over this? if there's any chance of that I'll just run what I need now and pull it all out later.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is highly subjective, dependent on the inspector.

some inspectors go over things with a fine tooth comb (rare), others barely look.

Will he be looking inside the panel? Or just glance at it with the deadfront on?

hard to say....

you could always put them in and see if he fails you but i imagine if he sees them, he may ask why they're not hooked up... anyone's guess

 

[dave*99]

So where are these wires terminating? Service panel on one end and what is on the other end? It would have to be in a box with wire nuts and a cover plate.

Why not land the wires in the service panel on breakers? Then later you can attach new circuits at those remote boxes. Of course you could drop a receptacle in each of those boxes and eliminate any chance of questions from the inspector.

 

[sky jumper]

ok you're making me second guess this. the electrical inspector seems pretty lax, but this is also part of the final inspection for the entire construction project and the main code inspector has been riding me hard to get it done (been working on it 30+ months) so I don't want to give him any reason to fail me. it won't be too difficult to repull all the wire if I can't fish new conductors.

 

[sky jumper]

So where are these wires terminating? Service panel on one end and what is on the other end? It would have to be in a box with wire nuts and a cover plate.

Why not land the wires in the service panel on breakers? Then later you can attach new circuits at those remote boxes. Of course you could drop a receptacle in each of those boxes and eliminate any chance of questions from the inspector.

yeah I was thinking just dead ending them in juntion boxes in the ceiling down at the end of the line. but if I have 7 extra breakers installed he's going to know something's up. for now all I'm doing is the ceiling light, a light at the stairs with 3-way switches, exterior lights and outlets at the person doors, and a single outlet at the panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

ok you're making me second guess this. the electrical inspector seems pretty lax, but this is also part of the final inspection for the entire construction project and the main code inspector has been riding me hard to get it done (been working on it 30+ months) so I don't want to give him any reason to fail me. it won't be too difficult to repull all the wire if I can't fish new conductors.

30+ months??

 

[sky jumper]

30+ months??

I bit off way more than I can chew. here's a pic of me setting the 40ft 7x21 glulam ridge beam back in summer 2018. I am not a bulider. I work in marketing.

 

[rlitman]

...but if I have 7 extra breakers installed he's going to know something's up...

Nah, spares and "loaded panels" are perfectly acceptable.

 

[Norcal]

Run a empty conduit from the panel. Made that mistake with my panel in the house, but it has been 26 years since it was wired with no needed changes until now.

 

[sparky 1971]

Pull the wires in that you need now. Take a pull string in with it for the future.
Most of the box stores sell a 500' tube of pull string, Ideal 31-348, others carry other brands. I keep a tube on my van for those "Oh ****, I forgot the big bucket of string" moments. It's not the easiest to use since it's wadded up into that little container, but it's still useable.

 

[spudley]

... since I don't plan to drywall this garage.

I must be missing something.
EDIT...Just reread your first post. Carry on.

 

[Jim greengo]

If the wires are dead ended in a box on other end it's not a big deal.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

The inspector doesn't care how many wires are in the panel. He is looking for compliance. My inspector only looked at the grounds, service cable sizing and general installation. He never looked at a single outlet or box in the shop. It was barely full when it was signed off. I'd just hold off pulling more wires until the inspection is completed. What isn't there can't be a problem. What you add afterwards is on you and the insurance company if it burns down.

 

[Jmellc]

In most cases, cables do not have to be in conduit but conduit is good.

I sometimes run 2 12-2 Romex to the attic of crawlspace & dead end then to a 2 gang nail up box. Skin wires & wirenut them separately in the box, put a cover in it marked “Spares”. Mark each cable at both ends. Any 2 future circuit can go to that box. Terminate grounds in panel but leave hit & neutral capped off. Pull as many as you may need, 2 cables per 2 gang box. Any more crowds box really fast.

If you think you may ever need a larger circuit for HVAC or air compressor, etc. , run a 1 inch or larger EMT conduit to attic, stub out about 6 inches high. Cap it with a set screw connector & seal connector with fire caulk. If you ever need the conduit, replace connector with a clean one & plastic bushing.

 

[Rp19]

This is coming from Canada but our code should be similar. We run “spares” all the time. Sometimes with no intentions to ever use unless something comes up. Just make sure they are capped and in boxes (panel) at either end. We typically use a gutter box above the panel and leave the spares in there.

The only issue I could see is if this is the final inspection he will suspect that you plan to continue the work later with no permit.

As suggested a pull string could be useful. But I found if you pull it in with the other wires all together it likes to wrap around them and become useless later on.

 

[readhead]

Instead of wondering what might happen why don’t you ask the inspector.

 

[reader2580]

I have two extra pieces of NM-B run into my main breaker panel for future projects. They were run to an unfinished part of my basement before drywall would make it very difficult to run more wire.

I recently replaced my main breaker panel and the inspector didn't say anything about the extra wires. They have wire nuts on the end just in case they touch the bus.

 

[Jmellc]

Instead of wondering what might happen why don’t you ask the inspector.

Nothing in code forbids spares. I did have one smart alec inspector nearly shout why I had spares in there. I replied that only an idiot would replace a panel & not run spares while having the chance to do so.

 

[Dagny]

I like the run another pipe idea because you have to derate the conductor ampacity as you add more conductors.

 

[sky jumper]

this is how I did it. added 5 extra conductors to the main 3/4" conduit and nutted them off into the bottom corner. inspector didn't say a thing. I've never done electrical before so the Pros here can laugh all they want at my workmanship. took me a while to get the hang of bending EMT.

 

[andyvh1959]

I have a somewhat similar issue. In my garage I have a stand alone off grid 12v solar system to power all my shop lights, work lights, and for charging my motorcycles. I have outlets installed around the garage, separate from the 110v outlets. These outlets will only accept a typical RV style 12v power outlet plug. I wired the 12v outlets with 14-2 wire just because its the easiest to use. Below the sub-panel, from one of the 12v outlet boxes I ran a 14-2 wire into the sub-panel, IF, someday me or someone else wants to change those 12v outlets over to 110v. So the wire will just terminate in the sub panel with wire nuts on the end of the 14-2. Any issues? I will also label it, along with a diagram inside the sub-panel door to show the system schematic and connections. Again, this is a 12v off grid system, not connected into the sub-panel.

 

[zeke67]

My cabin install, the price of the permit was per branch circuit. The inspector spent most of his time looking at the panel, maybe all of 10 minutes, plus another 10 minutes talking to me about the project and giving advice to prep me for the final. He looked in one junction box to see if it had a bonding screw for the ground conductor (metal box) and asked whether I had THHN or Romex pulled in the conduit. Apparently, I had paid more for the permit then I had pulled circuits for and I ended up with a refund. I didn't understand the pricing structure when I sent the cheque. The permit sticker in the box indicates the number of circuits. IMO, if you are going to add spare conductors and spare breakers for future wiring after the inspection, hook all that up now in and dead end it at the first junction box.

 

[andyvh1959]

Permit cost per branch circuit!!?? What the hell, I'd guess this to be a inspector in New York city as a money laundering gimmick for the mob. Is that common around the states? So if I had a 100 amp sub-panel in my garage with only four branch circuits versus the same sub-panel with 12 branch circuits the permit cost would be three times higher?

I had one permit cost for the electrical in my detached garage here in Green Bay.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My cabin install, the price of the permit was per branch circuit. The inspector spent most of his time looking at the panel, maybe all of 10 minutes, plus another 10 minutes talking to me about the project and giving advice to prep me for the final. He looked in one junction box to see if it had a bonding screw for the ground conductor (metal box) and asked whether I had THHN or Romex pulled in the conduit. Apparently, I had paid more for the permit then I had pulled circuits for and I ended up with a refund. I didn't understand the pricing structure when I sent the cheque. The permit sticker in the box indicates the number of circuits. IMO, if you are going to add spare conductors and spare breakers for future wiring after the inspection, hook all that up now in and dead end it at the first junction box.

per branch circuit? wow never heard of such a fee schedule. but if i had, id expect that to come out of california. which it doesnt. none of the california AHJs ive worked in has a fee schedule that is "per branch circuit"

Permit cost per branch circuit!!?? What the hell, I'd guess this to be a inspector in New York city as a money laundering gimmick for the mob. Is that common around the states? So if I had a 100 amp sub-panel in my garage with only four branch circuits versus the same sub-panel with 12 branch circuits the permit cost would be three times higher?

I had one permit cost for the electrical in my detached garage here in Green Bay.

ive never heard of such a fee schedule either. california AHJs do not practice such money laundering either...

 

[dscheidt]

Permit cost per branch circuit!!?? What the hell, I'd guess this to be a inspector in New York city as a money laundering gimmick for the mob. Is that common around the states? So if I had a 100 amp sub-panel in my garage with only four branch circuits versus the same sub-panel with 12 branch circuits the permit cost would be three times higher?

I had one permit cost for the electrical in my detached garage here in Green Bay.

Chicago prices permits, in part, based on the number of circuits being added. They have tiers, fewer than 10 circuits, 11-20, 21-40, 41-80, 80+. The fee doubles, more or less, each tier. that's for renovation; there's different pricing that applies for new construction.

 

[slow]

Chicago prices permits, in part, based on the number of circuits being added. They have tiers, fewer than 10 circuits, 11-20, 21-40, 41-80, 80+. The fee doubles, more or less, each tier. that's for renovation; there's different pricing that applies for new construction.

What's next, require everything in conduit as well?

 

[brewchief]

The area in MI that I work in also prices the permit by the number of circuits, 20$ application fee, 30 inspection fee, 20 for additional inspections, 5 for branch cicuits, something like 5 or 10 for the service, a few circuits might be slightly more depending on what they are.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[zeke67]

MN, it was probably tiered, not per each and I remembered it wrong. Probably in line with what Brewchief described. It was a cabin, 6 circuits, few hundred bucks and I still over paid. The approval sticker on the panel lists the number of circuits on the permit. My memory and inaccuracies aside, my point was if the OP was going to pull conductors, simply land them and pay for them up front.