LED in Post Light, Delayed Start Up Problem

[LifeLongWNYer]

My father electrified a couple of old whale oil lights decades ago, and one of them recently quit. After some trouble shooting, I determined that the wires he pulled into the oil pipe leading to the socket was bad. I pulled them out, he used were two strands of "about" 18 or 20 gauge wire with a fiber insulation. I tried replacing them with the same wire, but there were just too many bends and sweeps to get them in.

At first I was worried about the current draw of the 60w bulb on the new cord but I discovered that I could replace the original bulb with a Phillips LED which draws 4.5w and gives off a brighter glow than the old 40w'er.

After several attempts at pulling in several different types of wire, I found a lamp repair shop who sold me some 22 gauge cord, commonly known as "zip cord." While the fixtures are outdoors, the wire is in conduit fittings, pipe, or common electrical fittings so it is not exposed to the weather, only temperature changes.

Win, win, right? Sunday, the neighbor came over and said that he'd been watching me work on the lamp and was glad to see that I'd finally got the old lamps working. But, he added, did I know that when the lights come on ( with a time switch ) the rear one always turns on later than the front one? Of course they shouldn't operate that way, and NO I didn't know that.

There is a switch in the house that overrides the timer to turn them on, so I tried it a few times. Yup, every time, when I turned them on, the front one comes on instantly, and the rear one comes on between 25 and 35 seconds later. Never any sooner, and never any later, EVERY time!

Well, we had a heavy rain storm pass though that night so I left, but will be back this weekend to sort out the "slow light." I'll swap the bulbs to see if the problem moves, or maybe replace the "bad" one with an incandescent to see what happens then. But in the mean time, is this a common problem with LED's? This one is a Phillips BC4.5F15, from my local HD.




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[rlitman]

LED power supplies can have different startup delays.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Okay, I hear you, but.... but bulbs are the same type / model / part number....

Also, I 'm talking around THIRTY seconds. I have an old mercury vapor street light that fires up faster.

Although I'm curious about the cause, and I can live with it in a outside post light, it would not be acceptable in a light anywhere else.




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[nehog]

Okay, I hear you, but.... but bulbs are the same type / model / part number....

Also, I 'm talking around THIRTY seconds. I have an old mercury vapor street light that fires up faster.
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I think you misunderstood: even 'identical' lights can perform differently due to parts variations. But... I suspect the delayed light is defective. I'd swap the two and see if the problem moves with the bulb. It is possible that the delayed one is getting a lower voltage (wiring or socket issue?) that causes the delay.

 

[rlitman]

Okay, I hear you, but.... but bulbs are the same type / model / part number....

Also, I 'm talking around THIRTY seconds. I have an old mercury vapor street light that fires up faster.

Good point. I missed the 30 second delay when reading this on a cell phone.
I'm sticking with my original assessment though. Follow Nehog's advice, swap the bulbs. If the time delay follows the bulb, you've found the problem.
A bad component in the LED power supply can absolutely do this.

A second variation in startup time is absolutely normal in LED bulbs, and makes for weird effects when different type bulbs are put in the same fixture. More time than that probably indicates a defective bulb.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Okay, so most likely it is the bulb. As soon as the weekend arrives, this is my first job.

Nehog has a good idea about a low voltage concern, but that light is about 20' from the switch and the power panel. The one which works fine is another 100' away.




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[LifeLongWNYer]

Okay, I've some new information, but no answers. This weekend I replaced the LED bulb, the slow starter, with a standard incandescent bulb. As I'd expected/hoped it turned on instantly every time. Then I took the LED problem bulb into the barn and screwed it into a lamp socket. Surprize, it worked fine, every time.

Now, really puzzled, I put the LED bulb back into the post lamp and tried it a few times. Once again, every time that I turned it on, there was a 25-30 second delay between the time that i turned the circuit on and when this LED bulb lights up. As before, the other post light, the one out be the road, works properly.

Now, I'm really puzzled. Any ideas, folks?




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[Mustang51js]

Do you have a testor to check the voltage in the socket, you may be getting lower voltage in the socket,like 90 volts which would still light a normal bulb but something with a ballast would be delayed like on a dimmer

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

I do have a multimeter but didn't check the voltages.

There are no dimmers in this circuit, and it is only about 30 feet, ( as the wire runs ) from the panel box. The other light is about another 100 feet away and it works fine.

I'll report back on what I find with the meter.



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[Mustang51js]

I used the dimmer as an example from lights I've seen on houses, they lower the voltage so when people put led bulbs in they flicker or have a delay. A good way to start is check the voltage,also have someone help you so you can see if it's actually delayed power when switch is turned on, did you happen to see if there's a photo sensor on the post that may be part of the issue also.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does the conduit run underground? Unfortunately the 'zip cord' u used is probably not rated for wet environments. Underground conduits fill up with water all the time!

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

My mistake on not giving more detail on the wire. There is UF in conduit coming from the house to a box on the base of the post. ( About 2' above grade ) From a junction in the box, and inside a conduit running to another junction at the top of the lamp is THHN. The zip wire I ran only goes from the fitting above the lamp, down into the lamp, around the side of the fixture, then up into the bottom of the socket.









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[Mustang51js]

Check your voltage at the j box when the switch is turned on, then do the same thing testing the socket. Have someone turn the switch on after you have tester set so you can see if your getting a delay in power. It may be the wire going up to the light or the socket going out. Check the wire nut connections also.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

I haven't tested the circuit with a voltmeter, as usually when I'm threre, I'm alone. I did put a standard incandescent bulb in the socket and watch it as I turned the lights on. It worked fine every time.

I've the LED bulb in the car, and will take it back to HD and get a new one before this weekend.



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