LED Light Bulbs

[Jsf721]

I am looking to turm my house over to all LED lights. I have the Br30 and Br40 size indoor floods on my whole house. I have tried a few from HD and the biggest issue is they take that 1/4 second to pop on and it anoys me.

Is there such a thing as instant on LED bulbs? If so, what is the best brand and the best place to order from.

I need 31 large indoor floods and 8 small indoor floods. Next question is what temperature (color) to get????????

Thanks

 

[danielzig]

The slightly delayed on doesn't bother me. I switched my basement cans (br30) over to them about 6 months ago. I got them from menards for about 14 a piece. I believe they are made by feit or something like that. Color is 3000k. I like warmer light for the home.

 

[danielzig]

I should add, no problems with them thus far, probably the biggest thing that irks me about them is that they do not dim as low as incandescent.

 

[Jsf721]

I should add, no problems with them thus far, probably the biggest thing that irks me about them is that they do not dim as low as incandescent.

I am in the research stage but I see some of the LEDs are listed as dimmable or dimmer compatible.

These are in the 18+ range. I am excited to save some $ in the long run and not change bulds for 15-20 years but the upfront cost is very large.

 

[danielzig]

Yea. It is very large. When I put led lights in my house, I only did the lights that see heavy use which ended up being about a little less than half of them.

 

[rlitman]

If you have incandescent and LED bulbs on the same switch, the delay is annoying. If you make sure all the bulbs on a switch are LED, you don't notice the delay.

Dimmable LEDs don't dim as much as an incandescent, but they also don't go orange as they dim. The moonbeam light I get in my kitchen is really nice, but I wouldn't be happy with them in a bedroom.

 

[d33pt]

i bought two of them and one already died. not impressed.

 

[tankd0g]

I am in the research stage but I see some of the LEDs are listed as dimmable or dimmer compatible.

These are in the 18+ range. I am excited to save some $ in the long run and not change bulds for 15-20 years but the upfront cost is very large.

I have installed a set of dimmable LED pots in my living room, they work flawlessly with an old potentiometer but with modern digital dimmers I had to buy a couple different brands to find one that doesn't "freak out" when it gets confused by the low current and starts flickering at certain settings. Other than that they are great. Bright white light comparable to 100w floods from 13w bulbs is amazing.

 

[Zick]

i bought two of them and one already died. not impressed.

So much helpful info in this post....


How about telling us what make/model you bought?




We've been running about 5 of the Phillips LEDs from Home Depot for about a year and so far so good. There is a slight delay ~<1/4 second and could only tell if turning on an incandensent along with it. Don't even notice it anymore with just LEDs on the same circuit.
Can seem to be able to dim down to about ~30% before they start flickering. Sometimes even at 50% there is a slight variation in light output, alway like it's going back and forth from 50-60-50 percent. But it doesn't always happen.
Forgot to mention, it's pretty cool that they look orange but burn white when on.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203406...hillips+led&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=203406583

 

[Zick]

I have installed a set of dimmable LED pots in my living room, they work flawlessly with an old potentiometer but with modern digital dimmers I had to buy a couple different brands to find one that doesn't "freak out" when it gets confused by the low current and starts flickering at certain settings. Other than that they are great. Bright white light comparable to 100w floods from 13w bulbs is amazing.

I wonder if that's why mine flicker at certain levels. Mine are all controlled by Insteon dimmable switches.

 

[aar0s]

I have five or so of the HD house brand LED for a few months now, always leave them on and have had no problems so far.

 

[tankd0g]

I wonder if that's why mine flicker at certain levels. Mine are all controlled by Insteon dimmable switches.

With the ones I bought, (Cree - EcoSmart CR4 LED Recessed Light with Integrated Trim - ECO-575L-CA - Home Depot Canada), since the bulbs themselves were dimmable with a standard resistive dimmer, I had to find a dimmer that was NOT meant for dimming LEDs if that makes any sense.

There are some LEDs that are not dimmable but can be made dimmable by a dimmer than has the right circuitry to produce the pulse width modulation to make them flicker at a rate that makes them appear dim. I bough several dimmers that claimed to be able to work with both dimmable LEDs and regular incandescents, but they still flickered because the controller would always see the low current and switch to LED dimming mode. I ended up buying an old slider type mechanical dimmer because I couldn't find any other dimmer that didn't mention LEDs on the packaging.

 

[darkk]

I am looking to turm my house over to all LED lights. I have the Br30 and Br40 size indoor floods on my whole house. I have tried a few from HD and the biggest issue is they take that 1/4 second to pop on and it anoys me.

Is there such a thing as instant on LED bulbs? If so, what is the best brand and the best place to order from.

I need 31 large indoor floods and 8 small indoor floods. Next question is what temperature (color) to get????????

Thanks

I forgot the Kelvin rating, but I always try to get as close to natural lighting range as possible..

 

[Big-Foot]

With the ones I bought, (Cree - EcoSmart CR4 LED Recessed Light with Integrated Trim - ECO-575L-CA - Home Depot Canada), since the bulbs themselves were dimmable with a standard resistive dimmer, I had to find a dimmer that was NOT meant for dimming LEDs if that makes any sense.

There are some LEDs that are not dimmable but can be made dimmable by a dimmer than has the right circuitry to produce the pulse width modulation to make them flicker at a rate that makes them appear dim. I bough several dimmers that claimed to be able to work with both dimmable LEDs and regular incandescents, but they still flickered because the controller would always see the low current and switch to LED dimming mode. I ended up buying an old slider type mechanical dimmer because I couldn't find any other dimmer that didn't mention LEDs on the packaging.

The dimmer switch angle is an interesting one.. I guess I better be careful which ones I choose. I just bout a dozen 60w equivalent Dimmable LED's from my wife's school (robotics class fundraiser)..

 

[ForceFed70]

There are some LEDs that are not dimmable but can be made dimmable by a dimmer than has the right circuitry to produce the pulse width modulation to make them flicker at a rate that makes them appear dim. I bough several dimmers that claimed to be able to work with both dimmable LEDs and regular incandescents, but they still flickered because the controller would always see the low current and switch to LED dimming mode. I ended up buying an old slider type mechanical dimmer because I couldn't find any other dimmer that didn't mention LEDs on the packaging.

The problem with retrofit LED lamps is that they have their own powersupply built in. This powersupply contains a fairly large capacitor. When you use a PWM dimmer the cap ends up smothing out the PWM effect. Which is why they don't dim well (and also the reason why they have a large inrush current). Once the pulsewidth gets narrow enough, yes the lamp will dim but it's very hard on the powersupply and will greatly shorten the life of the lamp. You also do not get linear dimming. You'll find that all of your dimming happens over a a very small portion of the adjustment. IE: The top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 of the adjustment does nothing and your dimmer is very "touchy" in the middle 1/3.

Since powersupplies are all different, finding a high frequency PWM dimmer (which I think is dumb cause they cost most than dimmable lamps) may work well for 1 type of lamp and not well for others. Which makes lamp replacement a nightmare.

Your older style mechanical dimmer is basically just an adjustable resistor and is still very hard on the lamp's power supply while wasting energy (resistor gets hot) at the same time. These dimmers are even harder to size because voltage drop across the resistor/dimmer will vary with load. IE: 2 lamps being dimmed will result in twice the voltage drop. Same thing if you swapped to a lamp with double the wattage.

You're far better off to just get dimmable lamps. Which basically just contain a smarter and more robust power supply.

 

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

The problem with retrofit LED lamps is that they have their own powersupply built in. This powersupply contains a fairly large capacitor. When you use a PWM dimmer the cap ends up smothing out the PWM effect...

I like that we have people here who know their stuff. But I don't like the fact that they spout off without dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator i.e. me!


So WTF is a "PWM"?

 

[soob]

Most LED manufacturers publish a list of supported dimmers. Make sure you use one of those.

FWIW the Feit BR40 available at Costco (and ~$25 online) is a really good bulb. Really is as bright as a 100w bulb. Not as warm as incandescents, but dims all the way down as long as you use the right dimmer switch. I have like 15 of them in my house and they're working well after a couple months.

And yeah it has a ~1/2 second delay turning on. They all do. But it's not like a CFL that takes 2 minutes to warm up.

 

[Burn1]

I seen references of 15-20 No lamp replacements. That could vary well be the case, only time will tell. However, why is it that the LED manufactures only warranty the lamps for a couple years at most? Perhaps the LED die itself will last that long, but will the other electronics inside(power supply and cap) last that long? As another post mentioned, dimming can be hard on these retrofit lamps/bulbs.

Myself, waiting another couple years and a few more "generations" of LED technology to work its way into the marketplace. Better color rendering, better dimming will be forthcoming.

Should the cost of energy in this country continue to rise, then that might accelerate my home retrofit plans. Right now, the incandesce light bulb is way too cheap and my labor is free. Box stores continue blowing out 60watt lamp sales.

 

[ForceFed70]

I like that we have people here who know their stuff. But I don't like the fact that they spout off without dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator i.e. me!


So WTF is a "PWM"?

Sorry. I will try to explain in relative simple terms. PWM stands for Pulse Width Modulation.

The oldschool way to dim a bulb was to use an adjustable resistor. But the problem with a resistor is that it dims by wasteing energy across the resistor. A 100W lamp dimmed to 50W with a resistor is still using 100W it's just that the lamp only gets 50W and the other 50W is turned into heat by the resistor. A secondary problem is that this heat needs to be dissipated which is difficult to do when in a small enclosure in your wall.

PWM works by turning the lamp (or any load) on and off very quickly. The idea is that it turns it on and off so quickly that you cannot detect it. When you adjust a PWM dimmer you are adjusting the ratio of how long it's turned on vs how long it's turned off. Dimming by 50% would mean that it spends an equal amount of time on and off. Because the lamp is either fully on or off there is little energy wasted this way. And because there is little energy wasted (AKA heat generated) by the dimmer you can dim a much larger load before running into heat dissipation problems .

I am butchering the proper terminology and oversimplifying, but I think it's easier to understand that way.

 

[tankd0g]

The problem with retrofit LED lamps is that they have their own powersupply built in. This powersupply contains a fairly large capacitor. When you use a PWM dimmer the cap ends up smothing out the PWM effect. Which is why they don't dim well (and also the reason why they have a large inrush current). Once the pulsewidth gets narrow enough, yes the lamp will dim but it's very hard on the powersupply and will greatly shorten the life of the lamp. You also do not get linear dimming. You'll find that all of your dimming happens over a a very small portion of the adjustment. IE: The top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 of the adjustment does nothing and your dimmer is very "touchy" in the middle 1/3.

Since powersupplies are all different, finding a high frequency PWM dimmer (which I think is dumb cause they cost most than dimmable lamps) may work well for 1 type of lamp and not well for others. Which makes lamp replacement a nightmare.

There's a little confusion going on here as to what I purchased, so just to clarify for everybody, what you are talking about is retrofit LEDs that are not meant to be dimmed, the original LEDs that everyone is familiar with. What happens when you try to dim them with an LED dimmer is exactly as you describe. When you try to dim them with a restive dimmer, they simply shut off once the cap loses charge.

The lights I have do not work with a PWM dimmer period. The PWM circuitry is built into the light, they expect to see a drop in AC voltage @ a constant 60hz. Since there is a corresponding drop in current needed to run them as they dim, there is no heat being wasted in the wall. That's the whole point, they are retrofits for existing wiring, they are meant to work with your existing dimmer and still get you the claimed power savings. On the lowest setting, I only measure 28w used at the switch for the 4 13w lights. The problem is, there are a number of claimed dual mode dimmers on the market that actually are not dual mode because there is no way to force them into incandescent mode, they just assume the current draw will be there if the light is of the type that expects a constant 60hz, it of course is not when your light is only using 14w at full power.

If you buy non retrofit dimmable LEDS and an LED dimmer, that just means you moved the PWM circuit to the wall, it's the same circuit that's in my lights, you still have a rheostat controlling a PWM circuit. I fear all this is only going to confuse the OP because I see now he just bought standard screw in dimmable replacement bulbs which should work fine with an LED dimmer

 

[ForceFed70]

There's a little confusion going on here as to what I purchased, so just to clarify for everybody...

Ah. Cool. I wasn't really speaking to your original post but you've certainly picked an excellent system.

 

[Ironhorse]

Changed the whole house out to Feit ( black box ones) LED's pretty much all par's and some 60w output standard ones...very very very pricey but no issues and did notice about a 25$ savings first month...they have a 22year life so we will see...fully dimmable and instance on.

 

[Zick]

I seen references of 15-20 No lamp replacements. That could vary well be the case, only time will tell. However, why is it that the LED manufactures only warranty the lamps for a couple years at most? Perhaps the LED die itself will last that long, but will the other electronics inside(power supply and cap) last that long? As another post mentioned, dimming can be hard on these retrofit lamps/bulbs.

Myself, waiting another couple years and a few more "generations" of LED technology to work its way into the marketplace. Better color rendering, better dimming will be forthcoming.

Should the cost of energy in this country continue to rise, then that might accelerate my home retrofit plans. Right now, the incandesce light bulb is way too cheap and my labor is free. Box stores continue blowing out 60watt lamp sales.

The link I posted earlier for the Phillips that I bought from HD have a 6 year warranty.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Just this afternoon I skimmed a catalog that advertised led lighting that is dimmable to 10% as well leds identified as 'instant on'. Can't say whether it is true however.

You can check them out yourself at www.teksupply.com.

 

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

Sorry. I will try to explain in relative simple terms. PWM stands for Pulse Width Modulation...I am butchering the proper terminology and oversimplifying, but I think it's easier to understand that way.

No, perfect, thank you!

 

[IsaacDelgado]

I am looking to turm my house over to all led lighting. I have the Br30 and Br40 size indoor floods on my whole house. I have tried a few from HD and the biggest issue is they take that 1/4 second to pop on and it anoys me.

Is there such a thing as instant on LED bulbs? If so, what is the best brand and the best place to order from.

I need 31 large indoor floods and 8 small indoor floods. Next question is what temperature (color) to get????????

Thanks

it seems great idea but LED lights are very expensive. I have changed some of my home lights with led lights and they does consume less power. They are nice but expensive

 

[Exceller8]

Has anyone calculated the cost to savings over CFL's? I usually get about 3 years out of my CFL's and some of the ones I bought cost me $1 for a 4-pack. An average LED right now is about $12. I don't see any real savings here over the life of the bulbs?

 

[tankd0g]

Has anyone calculated the cost to savings over CFL's? I usually get about 3 years out of my CFL's and some of the ones I bought cost me $1 for a 4-pack. An average LED right now is about $12. I don't see any real savings here over the life of the bulbs?

The savings would only be in electricity. So it depends on the price of electricity in your area and how many hours you actually use them if you actually want to work out which is cheaper in the end. For me, I'd rather have the white light of LEDs over CFLs at any price.

 

[MeentSS02]

The problem I've always had with CFLs is that they take a while to warm up to full output, and for me, that's a no-go. I'll gladly pay the premium for an LED bulb that lights up like an incandescent, but lasts much, much longer.

I've tried a few different brands of BR30 bulbs, and the one I've found to be the best in terms of color (I like 2700k bulbs in the house, and some 2700k bulbs I've used have had a pink hue to them), brightness, and instant-on are the Sylvania brand from Lowe's. They are pricey, but there's no delay with them like I've seen with others, and the color output is very nice.

 

[ishiboo]

The savings would only be in electricity. So it depends on the price of electricity in your area and how many hours you actually use them if you actually want to work out which is cheaper in the end. For me, I'd rather have the white light of LEDs over CFLs at any price.

I enjoy the warm "halogen" type look, and excellent dimmability - LED retrofits are all I've found that accomplish this.

 

[fotoflojoe]

Only casually reading this thread but... Does anyone make an LED lamp with adjustable color balance? Seems that using an RGB element, it would be pretty easy. I love the idea of LEDs, but I'm probably THE MOST finnicky person you'll ever meet when it comes to color balance.

 

[MeentSS02]

Only casually reading this thread but... Does anyone make an LED lamp with adjustable color balance? Seems that using an RGB element, it would be pretty easy. I love the idea of LEDs, but I'm probably THE MOST finnicky person you'll ever meet when it comes to color balance.

From my understanding, that's not how white leds work...the color is changed by adding different types of phosphors to achieve the desired color, and that can only be done during the manufacture of the bulb.

 

[ishiboo]

From my understanding, that's not how white leds work...the color is changed by adding different types of phosphors to achieve the desired color, and that can only be done during the manufacture of the bulb.

Yes, but no.

White LEDs are done that way.

HOWEVER, RGB leds are simply three red, green and blue LEDs in one package. All on, they produce white. But RGB LEDs are not typically made in the high-wattage packages used by the other types, and if they were there may not be enough room for them plus sufficient heat sinks.

I think someone needs to make a LED which uses CREE warm white LEDs for most of the output, but also combines some secondary yellow and red LEDs at varying outputs to emulate a halogen bulb - IE, as the light gets dim, it gets warmer.

 

[tankd0g]

Yes, but no.

White LEDs are done that way.

HOWEVER, RGB leds are simply three red, green and blue LEDs in one package. All on, they produce white. But RGB LEDs are not typically made in the high-wattage packages used by the other types, and if they were there may not be enough room for them plus sufficient heat sinks.

I think someone needs to make a LED which uses CREE warm white LEDs for most of the output, but also combines some secondary yellow and red LEDs at varying outputs to emulate a halogen bulb - IE, as the light gets dim, it gets warmer.

I've never seen a high power RGB LED you could "mix" the way you are hoping for. Using a combination of LEDs might work, you'd probably have better luck using filters on a white LED to get the effect though.

 

[MyTechGuy LLC]

Is there such a thing as instant on LED bulbs? If so, what is the best brand and the best place to order from.

Yes. Currently Cree, and if you are rich the LED's by Switch.

Next question is what temperature (color) to get?

Depends on what type of 'light' you want. For real full "daylight" they should be around 5000 - 6500. This would simulate around noon or 1:00pm no cloud sunlight lighting. If you want lighting closer to 7:00pm-8:00pm then get 2500-3000. Typically they call these 'warm' lighting. Personally I can't stand the brownish dingy color of the warm LED lights, but if that's what you're looking for then get those. Just don't go above 6500k or they will have a blue or purplish tint. True white light should be around 5500-6500k. Decide accordingly.

I wonder if that's why mine flicker at certain levels. Mine are all controlled by Insteon dimmable switches.

Ordinarily this is the dimmer and not the bulb causing this. Most older dimmers are not LED compatible. I'm using the new Cree 5000k LED's with Smarthome Insteon SwitchLinc controllers and they dim flawlessly. Is there a neutral and ground run to the dimmer? What is the model number of your Insteon controller?

it seems great idea but LED lights are very expensive.

That's because you're not comparing apples with apples. A new gen LED will last around 10 years (based on 6 hours per day, 7 days a week). I use some of my LED's for only a few minutes at a time, so they will last a lifetime. How many traditional bulbs will you end up buying during that ten year span? Plus LED's use a LOT LESS energy, typically 85% less. How much more will you be paying on your electric bill to run the non-LED bulbs? Typical saving for a Cree LED bulb is around $140.00 over that 10 year period. So let's see, you're paying 13.00 up front for a 60 watt (9 watt) LED bulb, but then you save around $140.00 over the next 10 years. Do the math, the new gen LED's save you money, and a lot of it over their lifetime. HERE is a good article which explains how the newer LED's are made. A great place to use LED lighting is inside your refrigerator. Since LED's don't get hot they won't warm up your fridge, keeping the condenser from running and saving you additional money.

Has anyone calculated the cost to savings over CFL's? I usually get about 3 years out of my CFL's

Since the newer gen LED's (like the cree's) last around 10 years (over 3 times longer) you would be saving a lot of money switching to them, plus they don't contain any harmful Mercury or Lead. Win- win.

Does anyone make an LED lamp with adjustable color balance?

Is THIS what you're looking for? Plus you can control them with your smartphone...

 

[OJ Bartley]

This thread has got me thinking... I replaced a lot of our bulbs last year with CFL, and the daylight bulbs put out a nice light through the yellowish tinted glass in the new fixtures. Incandescents were much too yellow and dim through them. The problem is that the living room has a dimmer, and the CFLs obviously did not like that. I've had to go back to the incandescents, and the room always seems a little dim, even at 100%. Now maybe I'll take a look around at some LED bulbs and see if I can find a nice match that will put out a lot of light at full power, but will dim well for most normal use.

 

[Burn1]

Only casually reading this thread but... Does anyone make an LED lamp with adjustable color balance? Seems that using an RGB element, it would be pretty easy. I love the idea of LEDs, but I'm probably THE MOST finnicky person you'll ever meet when it comes to color balance.

Red, blue and green LED's is called additive color mixing. The down side is that the white "mix" looks bad. Often a white or amber LED is added. Thus, RGBW and this helps with a white mixed color for theatrical applications that also requires various colors for stage and concert lighting applications as example.

A white LED is nothing more than a blue LED that has a phosphor coating(s) applied. No native white LED chip exists. What is done is is using cool white and warm white LED's together. Thus, color temp can be adjusted to the users taste. The fixture must have a controller to allow the user to adjust the color temp. For most installations the user simply picks the color temp range(2700k, 3500k, 4000k, 6000k(daylight) LED lamp when they purchase and call it a day.

Color Rendering is what was lacking on early LED lamps. It has gotten much better over the years. The higher the CRI number the better. An incandescent lamp is the standard by which all others are measured.

 

[gatchel]

We are getting closer......

http://www.geek.com/news/cree-does-it-again-99-xspr-streetlights-promise-1-year-payback-1564495/