LED light opinion?

[iced98lx]

Bought three of these yesterday from Amazon for $37 w/free shipping to test out in my garage, anyone used them?



Energetic Lighting ELYSL-5001C-DS 4' LED Shoplight Fixture https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019EE01N8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[matt_i]

Looks like a competitor to the Costco Feit LED shop lights.

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^
Specs on the Amazon light look alitle weak at 48 watts 3700 lumens.
Price is high compared to Costco or others. Costco have been on sale for $24 recently.

The Amazon link currently shows $52 with prime or $38 and $12 shipping ???

 

[iced98lx]

Was deal of the day. I'm not a Costco guy was looking at the Sam's club ones too.

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[iced98lx]

Thank you buy the way for the input. I always have a need for lights in and around the house so even if these don't wind up in the garage its an experiment.

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[ForceFed70]

Specs on the Amazon light look alitle weak at 48 watts 3700 lumens.

Good catch. These lights are no more efficient than a standard T8 fluorescent. I wonder how the CRI would compare? I'd guess it's pretty poor as my experience has been that if it's a cheap LED lamp with poor efficiency, it also likely have poor CRI.

 

[ForceFed70]

Found the datasheet. http://energeticlighting.com/images/flyer/5001s.pdf

Love how someone asked the CRI question in the listing and the seller only provided the color temp. Took me all of 2 min to look this up and I'm not selling the things...

Anyway. CRI is listed as 80 which I'd say is "OK". About average for T8 fluorescent tho you can buy T8 lamps with a CRI as high as 90.

 

[iced98lx]

Thanks for the data sheet ForceFed.

I certainly see the lumens is low (3700) vs some of the others I've been looking at (http://www.samsclub.com/sams/4ft-led-shoplight-shoplight-led/prod16460030.ip is 4500) so I guess I didn't get much of a deal! Itchy amazon trigger finger failed me again! Oh well, even if I Just mount them to the walls for side lighting while detailing they'll come in useful.

And just when i think about grabbing some of those Sams Club units I read this:
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...rica-over-deceptive-claims-for-led-lamps.html

I would say imported LED lights are a crapshoot but all the diodes are imported so it's just a matter of finding someone who correctly labels what they have I guess.

 

[iced98lx]

I did find the sams club lights supposedly have a CRI of 86:
http://www.esplighting.com/liofamhipole24.html

So that seems like a much better all around light.

 

[EdT]

I put a number of the FEIT lights from COSTCO in my shop replacing a bunch of old T-12s. The difference is "like night and day". I bought the lights over a period of several months and noticed that the first group was a lamp with a plug, the second group was a lamp with a plug and a pull chain switch, the third group (from the recent sale) has a plug, a switch and an additional socket for pugging other lamps into the one that's plugged in. All the while the price has been dropping. So, I'm very pleased with the results so far. The power consumption is 42 watts so probably around half of the two bulb fluorescents I took out.

 

[Trey T]

Found the datasheet. http://energeticlighting.com/images/flyer/5001s.pdf

Love how someone asked the CRI question in the listing and the seller only provided the color temp. Took me all of 2 min to look this up and I'm not selling the things...

Anyway. CRI is listed as 80 which I'd say is "OK". About average for T8 fluorescent tho you can buy T8 lamps with a CRI as high as 90.

CRI is important to the type of work you do. If you're a colorist, messing with photo or video, you want the light source as high as you can 80+ CRI. Otherwise, I don't think CRI is a top critical factor.

the important factor when choosing LED is the duty rating and color temperature. The higher the duty rating, the more expensive the light. If you look at BigAss lights, they're rated for 24/7, while residential is rated for 3-4hrs a day. As for color, if you do work in the room (i.e. kitchen, laundry, work shop, etc...) you should use daylight (or similar) color temp.

 

[ForceFed70]

CRI is important to the type of work you do. If you're a colorist, messing with photo or video, you want the light source as high as you can 80+ CRI. Otherwise, I don't think CRI is a top critical factor.

CRI is more important than you may think. High CRI is absolutely needed for color true applications like painting, true.

But I don't think you truly understand the effect CRI has on just general use. It's hard to explain until you've actually experienced it.

A good example: LED flashlights - many of them have horrible CRI. Ever found it hard to "see" even tho there is lots of light? Color contrast is important for just general tasks as well, and it really helps to reduce eye strain. A perfect example of this is writing - black writing on a white surface - CRI doesn't matter one bit. Blue writing on a green background - very hard to read/see with poor CRI even if you have lots of light/lumens.

 

[Showkey]

The Sams lights have no tube "frosting", individual led are visible ( both of these "features" can effect the beam angle and hot spot glare) power cord comes out the top ( making surface a challenge), no daisy chain feature. Sams sells these lights under several brand names, you might want to read the reviews, DOA and high failure rates have been reported. Keep your receipts handy.......

 

[Savinyours]

Tagged

 

[Trey T]

CRI is more important than you may think. High CRI is absolutely needed for color true applications like painting, true.

But I don't think you truly understand the effect CRI has on just general use. It's hard to explain until you've actually experienced it.

A good example: LED flashlights - many of them have horrible CRI. Ever found it hard to "see" even tho there is lots of light? Color contrast is important for just general tasks as well, and it really helps to reduce eye strain. A perfect example of this is writing - black writing on a white surface - CRI doesn't matter one bit. Blue writing on a green background - very hard to read/see with poor CRI even if you have lots of light/lumens.

I agree with you, CRI is important for general use, but you have to consider the duty rating of LED lights first. You know that the Costco T8 LED for $35 is rated for 3-4hrs of operation per day, same standard like on most medium-based mogul bulbs, right? If you try to run them 6-8hrs a day, they will burn out (or dimmed) prematurely w/in several months, especially in environment where it's hot (non AC garage/shop). That means a 50,000hrs rated bulb will only last for about 600hrs. That's why CRI isn't the top priority in choosing LED.

 

[Showkey]

For your reading pleasure on life and reliability .........

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/life-reliability_fact-sheet.pdf

 

[ForceFed70]

I agree with you, CRI is important for general use, but you have to consider the duty rating of LED lights first. You know that the Costco T8 LED for $35 is rated for 3-4hrs of operation per day, same standard like on most medium-based mogul bulbs, right? If you try to run them 6-8hrs a day, they will burn out (or dimmed) prematurely w/in several months, especially in environment where it's hot (non AC garage/shop). That means a 50,000hrs rated bulb will only last for about 600hrs. That's why CRI isn't the top priority in choosing LED.

OK, a bit of a right turn here. I'm confused how we went from CRI to lamp life and nobody said CRI is a top priority tho it's certainly something you should be looking at when making these decisions. All the light in the world is no good if the CRI is horrible. Try to read resistor color codes under a high pressure sodium light for example. Those things are bright as hell and super efficient (yes, more efficient than LED) but have horrible CRI which is why you only ever see it used for street lighting and parking lots. You only need to see that other cars are there, you don't need to know what color the car is.

You'll need to show me data sheets for your claims here on lamp/fixture life. Yes, lifespan is reduced if used in sub-optimal conditions. But I have a hard time believing total lamp life would be reduced when used 6hrs at a time vs 3hrs. Heat soak would be near it's maximum after 1hr and with just about every other lighting technology the exact opposite claims are made (total life is reduced with more on/off cycles not increased).

 

[ForceFed70]

For your reading pleasure on life and reliability .........

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/life-reliability_fact-sheet.pdf

Thanks for posting that. I've been trying to communicate "LED Fixtures fail more often" and people always say "It's rated for 100,000hrs stupid". Nice to finally have an unbiased article that explains everything that's going on here and makes it pretty clear that the advertised numbers are pretty bogus when it comes to LED fixtures.

 

[cybrdyke]

CRI is important to the type of work you do. If you're a colorist, messing with photo or video, you want the light source as high as you can 80+ CRI. Otherwise, I don't think CRI is a top critical factor.

Correct, Trey. There are places that it's very important. Retail stores, inspection lines, etc...the list is endless. But for most daily needs, as long as the CRI is near the 80 level, it will be OK. Heck, we've lived with fluorescents in the 60 range for decades. Also, a high CRI lamp that is in the wrong color for the task can be worse than a low CRI lamp.

the important factor when choosing LED is the duty rating and color temperature. The higher the duty rating, the more expensive the light. If you look at BigAss lights, they're rated for 24/7, while residential is rated for 3-4hrs a day. As for color, if you do work in the room (i.e. kitchen, laundry, work shop, etc...) you should use daylight (or similar) color temp.

You lost me here. LED's aren't rated for a duty cycle. What might be confusing you is the label of the box where it says "lasts 22 years, based on 3 hours per day". That's marketing, not a laboratory rating. It doesn't mean that the lamp should only be used 3 hours at a time. It means that the lamp will last 60,000 hours, whether you run it 3 hours each day or 24 hours each day. They do this because most people are too stupid to figure out how long 60,000 hours is.
Also, there is no "you should use"...for lamp color (CCT), unless your comment was strictly your opinion. CCT is a personal preference.
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

For your reading pleasure on life and reliability .........

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/life-reliability_fact-sheet.pdf

Although this publication is 3 years old, it's still relevant because it speaks about laboratory testing methods and not specific products. Although it needs to be updated because LED products have improved so much over that time frame and also because IES testing methods have changed.

 

[cybrdyke]

Nice to finally have an unbiased article that explains everything that's going on here and makes it pretty clear that the advertised numbers are pretty bogus when it comes to LED fixtures.

That's a big stretch..
The publication only mentions that there were some offenders back in days before DOE and IES started making testing standards. They mention this to give the reader a little background on why these standards were needed.
Yes, there are manufacturers that still cheat. Feit and Lights of America are the biggest offenders as mentioned in another link. But they get caught because of the testing practices that are in place. They both are constantly being sued.
This is why I'm constantly amazed at folks that buy cheap **** from internet sellers. Those folks aren't subject to USA rules, regs or testing, so they most certainly are lying about their stats.
But the good companies, the name brands, their figures are generally accurate. You can easily find good quality LED fixtures that are rated 100,000 hours or more.
CD

 

[nickelmore]

Currently unavailable......

So what is being speculated is that the specs of the shop lamps at costco may not really be factual?

 

[Trey T]

Correct, Trey. There are places that it's very important. Retail stores, inspection lines, etc...the list is endless. But for most daily needs, as long as the CRI is near the 80 level, it will be OK. Heck, we've lived with fluorescents in the 60 range for decades. Also, a high CRI lamp that is in the wrong color for the task can be worse than a low CRI lamp.

You lost me here. LED's aren't rated for a duty cycle. What might be confusing you is the label of the box where it says "lasts 22 years, based on 3 hours per day". That's marketing, not a laboratory rating. It doesn't mean that the lamp should only be used 3 hours at a time. It means that the lamp will last 60,000 hours, whether you run it 3 hours each day or 24 hours each day. They do this because most people are too stupid to figure out how long 60,000 hours is.
Also, there is no "you should use"...for lamp color (CCT), unless your comment was strictly your opinion. CCT is a personal preference.
CD

Call your LED manufacturer, Cree or Philips, and try to warranty your LED bulbs and listen to the questions they ask.

OK, a bit of a right turn here. I'm confused how we went from CRI to lamp life and nobody said CRI is a top priority tho it's certainly something you should be looking at when making these decisions. All the light in the world is no good if the CRI is horrible. Try to read resistor color codes under a high pressure sodium light for example. Those things are bright as hell and super efficient (yes, more efficient than LED) but have horrible CRI which is why you only ever see it used for street lighting and parking lots. You only need to see that other cars are there, you don't need to know what color the car is.

You'll need to show me data sheets for your claims here on lamp/fixture life. Yes, lifespan is reduced if used in sub-optimal conditions. But I have a hard time believing total lamp life would be reduced when used 6hrs at a time vs 3hrs. Heat soak would be near it's maximum after 1hr and with just about every other lighting technology the exact opposite claims are made (total life is reduced with more on/off cycles not increased).

CRI was introduced by someone (see page 1) but CRI is something that, I bet, 99% of the people on here would know what it is. I was trying to make the point that CRI isn't that important to consider, particularly in Garage Journal. CRI isn't a value you can easily look up.

I don't know if the term used, "critical factor", sort of throw you off.

 

[Showkey]

The advantage of Costco...........they have a great return policy. You skip the manufacture and take the fixture back for a refund.
As far as FEIT.........I think Costco and others have required them to fix their quality issues and Labeling/marketing hype.
LOA and Honeywell not so sure ??????

As mentioned prior......label or Mark the bulbs and fixtures and keep the receipts.........no matter the brand, place of purchase or the type of lighting. Some Regular T8 can be just a problematic as the LED.

 

[iced98lx]

Thanks for the input guys, I have the lamps in my possession and I'll take pictures as soon as this sinus infection leaves me and I can stand to work on a ladder. Hopefully tonight I'll get more than 2 hours sleep like last night.

 

[az45]

The Costco 3700 lumen light is down to 25.00 at my local club. I've bought several, they work fine.

 

[jav]

$25? I think ours has the 2 pak for $60...

 

[iced98lx]

$25/each would be a great deal.

I hung one of the 3 lights I got (which claim 4000 lumen's on the box) up over the work bench by it's chains. It was was bright enough I went ahead and cracked open #2 to see about mounting it to the rafters.

Pretty Simple guts (and decent quality):

After a simple re-wire to get rid of the switch and mounting it works fine. Here you can see the hanging one. I'm going to remove the T5 fixture and mount the currently hanging one similarly to how the one in the middle is, add the 3rd and then hunt for more to do the rest of the garage.

 

[iced98lx]

Here are 9 of them up on a drywalled ceiling:

 

[Wangstang]

How high are the ceilings in your shop?

Would you say that you have sufficient light or could you use some more? (Looks a little dim to me)

Are all 9 of those the Amazon units?

 

[GRB]

The typical Costco Feit shop lights are a bit of an anomoly. A halfway decent light for a low price from a crappy company that doesn't honor their warranties. Costco covers the warranty and takes care of that problem. The other interesting feature is that these lights seem to be reliable unlike most Feit products.

Still not a great light for typical use lighting up an entire shop. Designed to hang one or two over a tool or bench and use a pull chain to turn it on. They are great for that. When you start buying in quanitity look at the excellent sticky above on "The best light fixture ever".

I've used a few in sections as I'm rearranging warehouse areas, even using two in an office that has no power for lights due to other wiring issues. Very noticeable light reduction in 3-4 years of use in a business.

 

[Wangstang]

The typical Costco Feit shop lights are a bit of an anomoly. A halfway decent light for a low price from a crappy company that doesn't honor their warranties. Costco covers the warranty and takes care of that problem. The other interesting feature is that these lights seem to be reliable unlike most Feit products.

Still not a great light for typical use lighting up an entire shop. Designed to hang one or two over a tool or bench and use a pull chain to turn it on. They are great for that. When you start buying in quanitity look at the excellent sticky above on "The best light fixture ever".

I've used a few in sections as I'm rearranging warehouse areas, even using two in an office that has no power for lights due to other wiring issues. Very noticeable light reduction in 3-4 years of use in a business.

At $20 a piece right now, they are quite a bit cheaper than anything in the sticky thread, especially at 5000lum per assembly.

I have open walls/ceiling and I'm considering running a conduit line of outlets at ceiling height on a single 20A switch controlled circuit, dasiy changing 4 of these at a time together per outlet and putting up 6-8 groups of 4 fixtures to light my shop. 14' ceilings make me think I'll need a few more fixtures than lower ceilings.

 

[GRB]

At $20 a piece right now, they are quite a bit cheaper than anything in the sticky thread, especially at 5000lum per assembly.

I have open walls/ceiling and I'm considering running a conduit line of outlets at ceiling height on a single 20A switch controlled circuit, dasiy changing 4 of these at a time together per outlet and putting up 6-8 groups of 4 fixtures to light my shop. 14' ceilings make me think I'll need a few more fixtures than lower ceilings.

First you have to decide if you are hanging the lights at 14'. You also need to specify how much use these get. I already stated that under business use those Costco Feits are going to hit the trash in 4-5 years.

If this is a temporary setup that will be done differently later, I can see the logic just to get a few lights for the space. I'm assuming this isn't a commercial building with inspections where there will be issues with plug in lighting.

At 10-12' light height, the LED ready fixtures in the sticky and your choice of bulbs really start to make sense. You can hang them in a continuous run and have all the wiring inside the lights.

At 12'-14' mounting height, you may want to consider fewer 3-4 bulb wide fixtures or medium bay fixtures. A continuous run of fixtures can still make sense if you are wanting lighting on each side of bays where you work on cars or above a hoist, etc.