LED lighting, 120 watt fixtures

[destroked]

Has anyone used these? The loal city just upgraded the boardwalk parking garage with these units and they are BRIGHT. Made in the USA and only 120 watts per fixture.

http://www.lektroninc.com/technical_9.html

I'm not looking for cheap, I'm looking for low power draw and longevity. The parking garage they installed them in has sodium lights before, the difference this new ones are providinging in light is incredible.

 

[ddawg16]

On the effeciency front...LED's don't really have anything over fluorescent.....the output/watt is at most 10% better. Compared to sodium....sodium is more effecient.

The problem with sodium is the yellow collor....the white/blue color of the LED's might make it look brighter....

When you look at the overall cost.....LED's have a way to go.

I have said it before...and still believe it....LED's are not the holly grail of lighting...I think it's still waiting to be found....

 

[VHF]

On the effeciency front...LED's don't really have anything over fluorescent.....the output/watt is at most 10% better.

LEDs are commonly quoted at using 10% of the power of a same-output incandescent vs. 25% for florescent. However, I think that many of the new higher output LEDs are not that efficent--more heat is being disapated by the "light engine" that drives the LEDs, reducing the overall efficency.

 

[destroked]

Like I said, I'm not looking to be cheap, if you have not seen the newer fixtures like I posted above, you simply are not understanding why I am going with them. I'm sick of flourescent bulbs, I can't stand the light spectrum they produce, the sporatic pulsing drives me nuts as well. I'm not interested in the eco effects of them, just the low energy consumption and dedicated task lighting that I can get out of them. All my portable shop lights are LED now and they have survived far past any incadescent or flourescent CFL or tube product.

If anyone has actual experience with the newer fixtures by specific brand, that is what I'm looking for here. I already met with the local vendor for these and I verified their 120 watt draw with a clamp meter. (amps voltage conversion). The power module that runs these fixtures is not a toaster by any means, not sure what you've seen in the residental or consumer product lines, but they are nothing comparable to to the link I placed above.

 

[ForceFed70]

The king of efficiency at the moment (with a good color temp at least) is HID. They will be cheaper too.

 

[gatchel]

Efficiency really comes down to lumens per watt. Color temp will also affect the percieved "brightness".

There are fixtures that are much more efficient than CFL's or fluorescent but at what cost. Some people have to have a return immediately and they will never think that LED's are a viable light source at todays pricing. If you look long term LED's ARE a viable light source at todays pricing, IF they last that long. That will be the true test.

For a garage that will only have lighting on an hour or a few hours per day the payback will be a very long time, if at all. If you have the lighting on 8 hours or more a day then LED's may be a viable alternative.

 

[ForceFed70]

Efficiency really comes down to lumens per watt. Color temp will also affect the percieved "brightness".

There are fixtures that are much more efficient than CFL's or fluorescent but at what cost. Some people have to have a return immediately and they will never think that LED's are a viable light source at todays pricing. If you look long term LED's ARE a viable light source at todays pricing, IF they last that long. That will be the true test.

For a garage that will only have lighting on an hour or a few hours per day the payback will be a very long time, if at all. If you have the lighting on 8 hours or more a day then LED's may be a viable alternative.

I don't agree. T5 Flourescent lighting is cheaper initially and more efficient. End of story.

T5 bulbs are fairly inexpensive to replace so even if the bulb life isn't as good as a LED, you are still ahead. LED bulbs cost big $$ to replace IF the fixture is even designed for a replaceable lamp.

The only time LED lighting is the better choice is in some very specific environments. For example: Lighting inside of a display cooler or lighting in a high-vibration area.

Comercial buildings are always the 1st to transition to high-efficiency lighting because they see the return on investment before anyone else. When is the last time you saw LED overhead lighting at your local store?

 

[destroked]

The fixtures were quoted at $900 each, so I'm going to have to either find a way to cut their middle men out or give up on this. I don't want fourescent tubes, I can't stand the light they put out.

As for the HID's, any specific brands you have tried that gave you good results? I'm not buying import fixtures or bulbs as long as there is a domestiv option available. (Part of the reason I was looking at the LED's they are built in a neighboring state to us.

 

[ForceFed70]

The fixtures were quoted at $900 each, so I'm going to have to either find a way to cut their middle men out or give up on this. I don't want fourescent tubes, I can't stand the light they put out.

As for the HID's, any specific brands you have tried that gave you good results? I'm not buying import fixtures or bulbs as long as there is a domestiv option available. (Part of the reason I was looking at the LED's they are built in a neighboring state to us.

HID usually comes in the form of a high-bay lighting. How hight of a ceiling do you have?

I would strongly reccomend you consider modern florescent. A modern good quality florescent fixture/tube will come in a varity of color temperatures (to suit your personal preference) without the annoying buzz, flickering, long startup time, etc.

 

[ForceFed70]

The fixtures were quoted at $900 each, so I'm going to have to either find a way to cut their middle men out or give up on this. I don't want fourescent tubes, I can't stand the light they put out.

As for the HID's, any specific brands you have tried that gave you good results? I'm not buying import fixtures or bulbs as long as there is a domestiv option available. (Part of the reason I was looking at the LED's they are built in a neighboring state to us.

HID usually comes in the form of a high-bay lighting. How high of a ceiling do you have?

I would strongly reccomend you consider modern florescent. A modern good quality florescent fixture/tube will come in a varity of color temperatures (to suit your personal preference) without the annoying buzz, flickering, long startup time, etc.

 

[destroked]

10.5 ft ceiling, overhead door tracks are 3" off the ceiling. 3 bays with 8 ft tall doors. I have floor joists above, so I do have space to recess can lights if I wish. Modern or not, I have no desire to install Flourescent lights, I've had every variation of them in the past, including fixtures installed 6 months ago. If you are not bothered by the light they produce, great, but that is not the case for me. I spend between 10-12 hours a day in my garage/shop, so this is not an insignificant issue.

 

[trainer]

I just installed a bunch of 4' t-8 LED's at work. they were about $60 a tube. Just remove the ballast and feed 120v to one end of the fixture.

We're very pleased with the results. we got some 5000k and some 3500k tubes. Colour is comparable to warm white and daylight fluorescents that they replaced.

The technology has come a long way in just the past year or so.

 

[VWandDodge]

On the effeciency front...LED's don't really have anything over fluorescent.....the output/watt is at most 10% better. Compared to sodium....sodium is more effecient.

The problem with sodium is the yellow collor....the white/blue color of the LED's might make it look brighter....

When you look at the overall cost.....LED's have a way to go.

I have said it before...and still believe it....LED's are not the holly grail of lighting...I think it's still waiting to be found....

Um, wrong. LEDs draw less power and generate a negligible amount of heat. The only downside is price, which is dropping more and more.

 

[destroked]

I just installed a bunch of 4' t-8 LED's at work. they were about $60 a tube. Just remove the ballast and feed 120v to one end of the fixture.

We're very pleased with the results. we got some 5000k and some 3500k tubes. Colour is comparable to warm white and daylight fluorescents that they replaced.

The technology has come a long way in just the past year or so.

I have t-8 flouresent fixtures on the ceiling now, that would be an easy retrofit. Do you have any idea what brand you installed and a source/vendor, possibly online?

 

[ddawg16]

Um, wrong. LEDs draw less power and generate a negligible amount of heat. The only downside is price, which is dropping more and more.

Um....very wrong.

If we look at efficency Lm/w

LED apx 80 Lm/W
T8 apx 78
T5 88-98 Lm/W
CFL 72-75 Lm/W

Incandescent...around 20-21 Lm/W

Have you seen the heat sink on a 120Vac LED light? Big honking heat sink....

As I have said before....I don't think LED's are the holly grail of lighting....it's still waiting to be found.

 

[mrb]

years ago induction lighting was supposed to be the holy grail of lighting. what happened to that?

 

[darkk]

If LED lighting was priced any where near reasonable, I would have it in my garage...

 

[VWandDodge]

Um....very wrong.

If we look at efficency Lm/w

LED apx 80 Lm/W
T8 apx 78
T5 88-98 Lm/W
CFL 72-75 Lm/W

Incandescent...around 20-21 Lm/W

Have you seen the heat sink on a 120Vac LED light? Big honking heat sink....

As I have said before....I don't think LED's are the holly grail of lighting....it's still waiting to be found.

You need to educate yourself on LED lighting.


http://www.greenoptions.com/forum/thread/499/led-lamps-versus-cfls

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/led-lights-vs-cfl-life-cycle-study-energy-efficiency.php

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/will-led-light-bulbs-best-cfls-and-incandescents

http://eartheasy.com/live_energyeff_lighting.htm

 

[ishiboo]

I don't agree. T5 Flourescent lighting is cheaper initially and more efficient. End of story.

T5 bulbs are fairly inexpensive to replace so even if the bulb life isn't as good as a LED, you are still ahead. LED bulbs cost big $$ to replace IF the fixture is even designed for a replaceable lamp.

The only time LED lighting is the better choice is in some very specific environments. For example: Lighting inside of a display cooler or lighting in a high-vibration area.

Comercial buildings are always the 1st to transition to high-efficiency lighting because they see the return on investment before anyone else. When is the last time you saw LED overhead lighting at your local store?

Kwik Trip stores have changed to LED canopy lighting in all their new stores, due to the cost effectiveness. We also have some munincipal street lamps at busy intersections which have been converted to LED, probably due to the logistics of replacing them when the sodium lamp fails.

LED retrofits, especially the new Halo recessed units with CREE light modules, to me look far nicer than having big 4' fluorescent fixtures. The efficiency is close (usually in real life, LEDs have a bit of an advantage) but the LEDs are longer lasting and as immune to vibrations/impacts/heat/cold/etc. as a light will get. Like CFLs, LEDs have a "ballast" (a LED driver) circuit which operates the LED as efficiently as possible, this is one of the areas for optimization in both cost and efficiency.

LEDs will only get more and more cost effective.

 

[ishiboo]

Also remember in any lumen debate, part of the issue is the beam. LED ceiling lights naturally emit 100% of their light downwards, versus T5/T8 bulbs which radiate 360 degrees and rely on a reflector to save some of the light. (some LEDs do use reflectors to make the light more of a "point" source then it already is.)

I prefer the look of halogens, to me some of the warm white LEDs are still far better than the warm T8 tubes, regardless of the color temperature on the box.

 

[ddawg16]

You need to educate yourself on LED lighting.


http://www.greenoptions.com/forum/thread/499/led-lamps-versus-cfls

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/led-lights-vs-cfl-life-cycle-study-energy-efficiency.php

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/will-led-light-bulbs-best-cfls-and-incandescents

http://eartheasy.com/live_energyeff_lighting.htm

Did you even read those articles?

Just so you know...lighting and energy efficiency is a hobby of mine....I'm no tree hugger...but I also have no heartach over the loss of incandescents....

The first two references are from greenoptions and treehugger....not only are the vague about #'s....they are very 'slanted'.

The PM article talks more about reliability and life of the respective lamps....but never really talks about efficiency...

The last one from EarthEasy is just downright full of false info. That site is more sales than technical.

So me a 'real' techincal comparison that shows LED lamps compared to CFL's. With current production offerings, LED's are at most maybe 10% more efficient than CFL's....but loose out to T5 lamps. Even if you factor in the longer life....the savings falls short when you factor in the cost of the lamp.

Go look at the current LED offerings at the big box stores.....you are not going to see any 100K hour life claims....more like 25K hours....with the average CFL costing $4 or less.....the savings with LED's is not there.

It should be noted that I like LED's. The dash lights on my jeep are LED. I think automotive is the perfect application for LED's....not to mention my flashlight....the battery last 5x longer....and I don't worry about the bulb breaking when I break some guys head with it....(disclaimer....I have never actually hit anyone with my flashlight...but I have dropped it a 'few' times)

 

[mrb]

another thing on LED lifespan. The advertised life is on the LED die itself. Same as with the CFLs we will see LED bulbs failing long before their advertised life is up due to failure of the electronics (a switchmode buck converter in the case of LED)

also, people see LED and percieve the intensity from the near point source nature of the light as brightness whereas you can get more lumens per watt from T5.

*i hate CFLs, love the warmth and color spectrum from incandescent, and think LED may be useable someday. Right now it has its applications and they are growing every day but they dont make sense yet for many mainstream uses.

 

[trainer]

I have t-8 flouresent fixtures on the ceiling now, that would be an easy retrofit. Do you have any idea what brand you installed and a source/vendor, possibly online?

we got them from a refrigeration supply place. THey don't sell to the public.

They looked like a generic chinese product, but they did have a valid CSA/UL approval. The electrical inspector verified this.

Google LED SMD lights. there are lots of online vendors and some on ebay