LED Lighting Flush With Ceiling

[HPRifleman]

I've been trying to read as many lighting threads as I can but it seems the LED fixtures that are getting recommended/installed are surface-mount. In other words, they are mounted to an already existing ceiling.

I'm planning a new build so I have the luxury of deciding on lighting that can be mounted within the ceiling. It seems like some kind of recessed fixture that is flush with a drywall ceiling would provide a very clean look.

Is there a practical reason why flush-mounted LED shop lighting fixtures aren't being recommended?

 

[GRB]

Just more money for the same light. Cleaner look but more money.

 

[quattro_sinko]

No answer as to why theyre not more widespread, but I have supplied and installed 150+ 6" flush mount/recessed LED lights on jobs in the last 12 months. The 2700K lumen ones give the closest match to incandescent IMO. Make sure you get the ones with the little junction boxes included. And get ready to install dimmers, you will want them.

 

[cybrdyke]

Most recessed fixtures are designed to fit into a grid ceiling. Most garages dont have grid ceilings. That's the short answer to your question.
However, you can certainly put LED flat panels or volumetric troffers (or any number of other styles of fixtures) into a drywall ceiling if that fixture is available with a "mud-in" kit AND if the ceiling can handle the weight. You can mitigate the ceiling weight by using hanging kits to support the fixture from structural members above. But now you've got lots of large holes in your ceiling.
There are also small fixtures that can snap into the drywall ceiling, which makes mounting very easy.
There are very thin surface mount fixtures as well.
The options are endless.
CD

 

[mike93lx]

Check out wafer LED's like this:

Halo HLB 6 in. White Round Integrated LED Recessed Light Direct Mount Kit with Selectable CCT (2700K-5000K), (No Can Needed)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HL...-5000K-No-Can-Needed-HLB6099FS1EMWR/306051064

Dimmable, selectable color temp and only 1/2" thick, so you can put them anywhere you want, including directly below a joist.

Downside is they are only 1000 lumens, which is low compared to a 4ft fixture and the beam pattern is down and not as widespread as a surface mount fixture.

But they do look clean.

Around me, the local utilities subsidize $10,so the one I linked is only $20

 

[wssix99]

I'm planning a new build so I have the luxury of deciding on lighting that can be mounted within the ceiling. It seems like some kind of recessed fixture that is flush with a drywall ceiling would provide a very clean look.

Build of a garage? You can get LED recessed can lights, and conversion kits for grid lights into drywall: https://www.prolighting.com/accessories1/fixturehangers/flat-panel-hangers/rmkpanel2x4.html

... but I would expect that they would cause you to loose the fire rating (possibly required by your code) on your ceiling.

 

[quattro_sinko]

Most recessed fixtures are designed to fit into a grid ceiling. Most garages dont have grid ceilings. That's the short answer to your question.
However, you can certainly put LED flat panels or volumetric troffers (or any number of other styles of fixtures) into a drywall ceiling if that fixture is available with a "mud-in" kit AND if the ceiling can handle the weight. You can mitigate the ceiling weight by using hanging kits to support the fixture from structural members above. But now you've got lots of large holes in your ceiling.
There are also small fixtures that can snap into the drywall ceiling, which makes mounting very easy.
There are very thin surface mount fixtures as well.
The options are endless.
CD

Check these out:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VTNCQ4F/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[pbon]

I looked into LED can lights but the most lumens I could find was about 2000 so I would have needed at least twice as many. And the light dispersion is not as good. I am using 4’ LED wrap lights but considered surface mount 1x4 LED flat panels.

 

[marsh1]

These are surface mount but low profile Lithonia LEDs. Gives a clean look and allowed me to get the right layout for even lighing


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[cybrdyke]

If you guys are thinking about wafer lights, you can get them in 1x1, 1x2, 1x4, 2x2, and 2x4 versions. They also make 6" x 1' and 6" x 2' versions now. The profile is about 1/2" over the surface of the ceiling. They're not cheap, but they are much brighter than the standard 6" round and they have the flat panel photometrics.
CD

 

[quattro_sinko]

If you guys are thinking about wafer lights, you can get them in 1x1, 1x2, 1x4, 2x2, and 2x4 versions. They also make 6" x 1' and 6" x 2' versions now. The profile is about 1/2" over the surface of the ceiling. They're not cheap, but they are much brighter than the standard 6" round and they have the flat panel photometrics.
CD

Here is an example of 2x2 troffer indirect LED light panels inlaid into a coffered ceiling (best photos at the end of page 2)

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375126&page=2

 

[GRB]

I just assumed you were talking about wafer lights in the beginning.

Can lights will be a joke for a real garage. You are going to want more light than a family room. I guess that goes along with suggestions of 2700k color temp. Is it a family room?

Cutting holes in drywall to hang troffers is also a bit nuts. Why would anyone want to do that? Loose structural strength, airflow barrier, and insulation?

Wafer lights make sense in low ceiling places like a basement or where you are willing to spend the money for a clean look.

 

[HPRifleman]

Most recessed fixtures are designed to fit into a grid ceiling. Most garages dont have grid ceilings. That's the short answer to your question.
However, you can certainly put LED flat panels or volumetric troffers (or any number of other styles of fixtures) into a drywall ceiling if that fixture is available with a "mud-in" kit AND if the ceiling can handle the weight. You can mitigate the ceiling weight by using hanging kits to support the fixture from structural members above. But now you've got lots of large holes in your ceiling.
There are also small fixtures that can snap into the drywall ceiling, which makes mounting very easy.
There are very thin surface mount fixtures as well.
The options are endless.
CD

You're right. Maybe I've spent too much time looking at an office ceiling and assuming I could have the same flat look in my garage. I probably shouldn't get hung up on having that "flush" look. Especially if I am sacrificing light quality for aesthetics.

 

[HPRifleman]

Part of the problem is, as already mentioned, the possibilities for illumination are endless. I just thought within that "endlessness" would be the ability to recess the fixtures within a drywall ceiling. I'll keep a more open mind to surface-mount fixtures as these will keep the drywall intact and can be swapped out later if technology advances.

 

[quattro_sinko]

I just assumed you were talking about wafer lights in the beginning.

Can lights will be a joke for a real garage. You are going to want more light than a family room. I guess that goes along with suggestions of 2700k color temp. Is it a family room?

Cutting holes in drywall to hang troffers is also a bit nuts. Why would anyone want to do that? Loose structural strength, airflow barrier, and insulation?

Wafer lights make sense in low ceiling places like a basement or where you are willing to spend the money for a clean look.

I would not hesitate to put LED "cans" on a 48" spacing in a garage. Having installed the full range of LED lighting (2700k-5000k) both can and flat panel I can state confidently that provided one has the spacing and coverage to eliminate shadows/dark areas, the need for a dimmer will soon be apparent.

That or sunglasses

OP: I didn't realize you were specifically asking about garage lighting in your first post. Looking back I do see "shop lighting" mentioned at the end. The LED indirect panel lights throw a tremendous amount of light out, dimmers are of the 0-10v variety and require separate wiring to control IIRC. I bought a pair from "lightsup" (i think it was) to check out in 2017. Having them in my hands gave me a better idea of how I could mount them. They are pretty cool, inexpensive to operate, and throw out awesome light when properly spaced.

 

[Mark_17]

Part of the problem is, as already mentioned, the possibilities for illumination are endless. I just thought within that "endlessness" would be the ability to recess the fixtures within a drywall ceiling. I'll keep a more open mind to surface-mount fixtures as these will keep the drywall intact and can be swapped out later if technology advances.

When*

 

[HPRifleman]

OP: I didn't realize you were specifically asking about garage lighting in your first post. Looking back I do see "shop lighting" mentioned at the end.

I guess I should have provided a bit more detail originally.

My plan is for a rectangular interior space that is 24' x 45' x 9'. Walls and ceiling would be drywall painted white. Floor would probably be gray epoxy. Most of that 45' (about 35') is vehicle storage while the final 10' is workshop for wrenching/fabricating.

I thought picking lighting for this would be fairly straightforward....until I started reading this forum. Everyone seems to have a different solution even though the spaces seem similar. Now I'm afraid of making the wrong decision and being stuck with it. My philosophy for a lot of things is that I only have one chance to get it right....so I better get it right.

 

[marsh1]

IMHO you should start with the pinned layout thread. You will probably find a layout for a similar size, shape and height garage done my member Platonic Solid. It will give you placement and light specs for your ceiling height. After that your builder can probably flush mount anything as long as you foot the bill.

In my previous house I put up a lot of bright fixtures where I thought they should go and had a lot of shadows. This time I followed the closest plan in that thread and could not be more pleased with the results.

 

[quattro_sinko]

I guess I should have provided a bit more detail originally.

My plan is for a rectangular interior space that is 24' x 45' x 9'. Walls and ceiling would be drywall painted white. Floor would probably be gray epoxy. Most of that 45' (about 35') is vehicle storage while the final 10' is workshop for wrenching/fabricating.

I thought picking lighting for this would be fairly straightforward....until I started reading this forum. Everyone seems to have a different solution even though the spaces seem similar. Now I'm afraid of making the wrong decision and being stuck with it. My philosophy for a lot of things is that I only have one chance to get it right....so I better get it right.

Looks like a great sized garage/shop. I currently have 6 (plug in) 48" LED surface mounts on the ceiling of my garage (24'x28'), all of the outlets are run to a single wall switch. I probably should have hung 8 of them for better coverage. They are adequate, easy to install, and were cheap (<$20 ea.) As I have yet to drywall walls or ceiling, they were/are a great short term solution for me.

If you end up going down the "flush mount" road keep this in mind: I always supply and leave an extra fixture or two with clients that go LED. Although I have yet to have any fail in the last 2 years, I think that it is wise to have a spare fixture or two from same MFR and lumens as what is installed. The market seems to be evolving quick enough that what is available today may not be next year, and it would kill me to have one oddball light.

 

[machsnell]

Similar to quattro sinko I installed 1x4 led panel lights. I installed 22 of them at 5000 lumens and installed them flush.

I wanted it clean and not hanging down or surface mounted.

I got them a few years ago straight from China w UL listing for about 90 bucks each. They are cheap now but back then they were in the 200 to 300 range.

They are 0 to 10v so doorbell wire required.

Now they have mounts but since they are made for drop down ceilings I had to frame them to bottom chors of trusses and install down for drywall. It was a total pita.

But...they look nice and throw a bunch of light. I added cans when I installed panels and even a few pucks afterwards in the work areas where more light was needed.

And like quattro said I ordered 2 extra just in case.

Also yes dimmers very important. I rarely have everything on full unless surgery being done.

Problem w 6 inch lights you will need a gazillion of them but upside is you wont have shadows.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Bert_]

Similar to quattro sinko I installed 1x4 led panel lights. I installed 22 of them at 5000 lumens and installed them flush.

I wanted it clean and not hanging down or surface mounted.

I got them a few years ago straight from China w UL listing for about 90 bucks each. They are cheap now but back then they were in the 200 to 300 range.

They are 0 to 10v so doorbell wire required.

Now they have mounts but since they are made for drop down ceilings I had to frame them to bottom chors of trusses and install down for drywall. It was a total pita.

But...they look nice and throw a bunch of light. I added cans when I installed panels and even a few pucks afterwards in the work areas where more light was needed.

And like quattro said I ordered 2 extra just in case.

Also yes dimmers very important. I rarely have everything on full unless surgery being done.

Problem w 6 inch lights you will need a gazillion of them but upside is you wont have shadows.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

If you want to do it ^this is the way to do it. His do look to be spaced to far apart thus the need for extra fixtures in the work area.

Yes there will be a lot of extra framing since each light needs an opening and framing to attach a drywall mounting kit.

 

[mike93lx]

Similar to quattro sinko I installed 1x4 led panel lights. I installed 22 of them at 5000 lumens and installed them flush.

I wanted it clean and not hanging down or surface mounted.

I got them a few years ago straight from China w UL listing for about 90 bucks each. They are cheap now but back then they were in the 200 to 300 range.

They are 0 to 10v so doorbell wire required.

Now they have mounts but since they are made for drop down ceilings I had to frame them to bottom chors of trusses and install down for drywall. It was a total pita.

But...they look nice and throw a bunch of light. I added cans when I installed panels and even a few pucks afterwards in the work areas where more light was needed.

And like quattro said I ordered 2 extra just in case.

Also yes dimmers very important. I rarely have everything on full unless surgery being done.

Problem w 6 inch lights you will need a gazillion of them but upside is you wont have shadows.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Looks very nice, great job.

When I build my small workshop, I am leaning towards the 6" fixtures. No special framing, they are $20 each, dimmable, selectable color temp and they look so clean. I have them in a few rooms in my house and think a reasonable number of fixtures will be fine for the stuff I do.

 

[quattro_sinko]

Looks very nice, great job.

When I build my small workshop, I am leaning towards the 6" fixtures. No special framing, they are $20 each, dimmable, selectable color temp and they look so clean. I have them in a few rooms in my house and think a reasonable number of fixtures will be fine for the stuff I do.

You can cut the per-fixture price in half (or better) if you are willing to lose the selectable color temp (by buying 6-packs of lights (with included drivers in junction boxes) of Amazoon.

 

[ArcticGabe]

Looks very nice, great job.

When I build my small workshop, I am leaning towards the 6" fixtures. No special framing, they are $20 each, dimmable, selectable color temp and they look so clean. I have them in a few rooms in my house and think a reasonable number of fixtures will be fine for the stuff I do.

I went to my local lighting supply house looking for 1x4 flat panels for flush mounting. I really want flush mount because I have 9' high ceilings and I don't want to be worried about banging around light fixtures. The guys at the supply house swayed me into 6" round fixtures (Lithonia WF6 with switchable color temp). He said all of the 1x4 panels require 0-10v dimming, which needs the extra control circuits to be run. The 6" are actually less expensive when compared to most 1x4 panels for the same illumination, and doesn't require 0-10v dimmers and extra wiring.

Either way, I'm not too concerned. If I decide later I don't like it, I can patch up the 6" holes and do something else later and sell the 6" fixtures on eBay.

 

[mike93lx]

You can cut the per-fixture price in half (or better) if you are willing to lose the selectable color temp (by buying 6-packs of lights (with included drivers in junction boxes) of Amazoon.

$10 each? Who is making them?

At least at the $20,they are Halo/Eaton, so a reputable company. Mine are subsidized by the local utility, so cheaper than normal

 

[quattro_sinko]

Torchstar.
I've put in 150+ Torchstar units. I get them off Amazon for +/- $65 shipped. The price seems to move up and down by a few bucks randomly. Of those 150, I have experienced exactly one defective driver. The oldest of the ones I have installed are 2 years old, used daily, and still working great with no issues.