LED ROI calculation

[ForceFed70]

Does anyone have an LED lamp/fixture datasheet and accompanying Return On Investment (ROI) calculation that they can share?

Everyone keeps telling me how LEDs are more efficient and will save money, but I still haven't seen anything more than people making big claims with no real data to back it up.

No BS - just facts (datasheet) and math. Garage application, compared to T8 or T5 lighting.

The best I've been able to see so far is a calculation that showed ROI after 10 years....of leaving your lights on 24/7.

 

[alpinewhite]

For the same wattage, CFLs give off the same number of lumens. I wouldn't switch just for the sake of switching.

 

[cybrdyke]

I'll do one for ya. If I can figure out how to post a pdf, I'll post it. If not, then I'll email it to ya.
Let's do a hypothetical...
You tell me:
Total annual hours that lights are ON.
Price you pay for a T8 fixture, a T5 fixture and a LED fixture. Be sure to be specific on the T5....is it a 28w T5 or a 54w T5HO fixture?
How many lamps per fixture? 2? 4? more?
The price you pay in your area for KwHrs, in cents.

Get me that info & I'll whip up a comparison for ya. What you're gonna find is that the T8 and T5HO will be very close, depending on cost, and that the LED will be way more expensive.

 

[kd3pc]

ROI for this is based on MTBF (mean time between failure) and since the technology is so new, there is little real data to factor with. In THEORY LEDs are supposed to work for years/decades.

Sadly I have seen cheap LEDs in boat light fixtures fail in just a few hours of use. Many were expensive ($20-35 each). Analysis showed that the regulator, if there was one, failed, as it could not handle the 11.5-13.7 volt swing battery power suffered from. Similarly some designs, had no regulator at all and those LEDs were simply blown by voltage swings.

In my garage, I currently have 3 of 6 different LEDs running 24/7, all are A19 style and from different makers, and at different price points from just over $5 ea to over $20 ea. All were placed in service last year about this time. 1 failed in the first week, the next two over the first three months. 3 are still working, a CREE from Amazon, and a Utilitech Pro from the local lowe's, the last is a no name bulb I picked up at a hamfest for $5.

All 6 lamps claimed a 25,000 hour life, 22 years at 3 hours per day in most cases. All were warranted but the three that failed cost more to ship back and argue with customer "support" than the cost of a replacement.

They are more efficient and will save you money over comparable incandescent bulbs. As to ROI, not happening, like a lot of alternative energy products....the theory and the reality are still quite a ways apart.

 

[kd3pc]

Incandescent
CFL
LED

all different....don't confuse them

 

[ForceFed70]

I'll do one for ya. If I can figure out how to post a pdf, I'll post it. If not, then I'll email it to ya.
Let's do a hypothetical...
You tell me:
Total annual hours that lights are ON.
Price you pay for a T8 fixture, a T5 fixture and a LED fixture. Be sure to be specific on the T5....is it a 28w T5 or a 54w T5HO fixture?
How many lamps per fixture? 2? 4? more?
The price you pay in your area for KwHrs, in cents.

Get me that info & I'll whip up a comparison for ya. What you're gonna find is that the T8 and T5HO will be very close, depending on cost, and that the LED will be way more expensive.

Great.

Let's keep in general terms:

Here's a T8 fixture that many would install in their garage: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...ount-Fixture-CEW102-06/203725954?N=5yc1vZc9h6
And the cheapest LED equivalent I could find:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...nd-Light-LBL-4/203839057?N=5yc1vZc7nkZ1z115g2

They aren't quite comparable tho as output from the LED fixture is advertised as 4000lumens, where 2 x 32WT8 will put out almost 6000 lumens. Reflector efficiency may come into play... I dunno but really doubt that there would be a 33% reflector loss to make these lights have comparable output.


$0.09 per KWH would be a good average cost of electricity I think.

Average garage owner here has their lights on maybe 5hrs per day? So 1825hrs/year.

 

[cybrdyke]

OK. Choose and price your 2 lamps. Are we gonna add a T5HO into the comparison?
CD

 

[600SL]

I looked into this briefly when I was putting up my lights and couldn't justify the ROI. I do believe it is an emerging technology and will replace the T8's T5's in the next 5 years. Our company has installed quality high bay systems in its new hanger but those are on 24/7.

I believe most of us here are like myself and cant spend more than 30 hours a week at most in the garage. Therefore the ROI wont happen until good quality fixtures are within ~20% the cost of a T8 fixture.

 

[Norcal]

Only way I see any payback is when the utilities offer rebates to install them, which in most cases is not available to residential customers.

For any GJ members in the Sacramento area, SMUD, Sacramento Municipal Utility District, has been subsidizing* Cree LED lamps for less then $5 ea. (9.5 watt are $4.22 ea), which is about all resi customers get.

*In reality SMUD or other utilities offering rebates whose customers are subsidizing them.

 

[BeachBoy]

At my local gas stations n they have replaced their regular lamps (don't known the technology) with these LEDs, like 16x16 arrays in each spot.

******** every time I fill up I have to wear my sunglasses as it's so stupidly bright!!!

I wonder how much those cost!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[aar0s]

So far I've got 8 led bulbs burning, three are on full time, and never had one fail. I tell customers that it's a pain in the *** question as to led v. Cfl. If you have to get on a ladder to change the bulb use a led, if not then you can buy a three pack of CFLs for three bucks or so, use them in your table lamps.

 

[ForceFed70]

OK. Choose and price your 2 lamps. Are we gonna add a T5HO into the comparison?
CD

Here's a basic lamp. There are better ones out there, just not sure whether it's worth the extra $$ for slightly higher efficiency.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...-2-Pack-226795/100138519?N=5yc1vZbm3zZ1z0vvri

My understanding is that the HO fixtures are less efficient with lower lamp life than standard output. So think we can skip that calculation for now.

 

[Viper98912]

We looked into it for a manufacturing facility, where the lights are on 24/7. With government incentives and manufacturer rebates, the payback was fairly quick compared to the large xenon style reflector lights. Especially when you have a bunch of them.

For home use, not so. The savings just isn't there for the short term. Regardless, I went with LED anyway for a few reasons:

1) I put in (10) 6" recessed can lights
2) The light assemblies were complete with trim (saving a few dollars, the brushed nickel trims can add up)
3) Lower power draw (simplified the number of circuits I needed)
4) Less heat compared to regular bulbs in can lights
5) It's "modern" and "cool" - after all, it's your shop right? You want to brag.
6) The "showroom reflection" off the cars looks amazing; something you don't really get from incandescents, flourescents, or halogens.

 

[Falcon67]

I don't have the link handy but I recently read a paper that basically said in a high buck commercial intelligent lighting set up, its kinda long but doable. In residential, payback is about never. At current pricing.

 

[Kevin C]

Great.

Let's keep in general terms:

Here's a T8 fixture that many would install in their garage: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...ount-Fixture-CEW102-06/203725954?N=5yc1vZc9h6
And the cheapest LED equivalent I could find:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...nd-Light-LBL-4/203839057?N=5yc1vZc7nkZ1z115g2

They aren't quite comparable tho as output from the LED fixture is advertised as 4000lumens, where 2 x 32WT8 will put out almost 6000 lumens. Reflector efficiency may come into play... I dunno but really doubt that there would be a 33% reflector loss to make these lights have comparable output.


$0.09 per KWH would be a good average cost of electricity I think.

Average garage owner here has their lights on maybe 5hrs per day? So 1825hrs/year.

I have tested the two light fluorescent you linked to and its about 60-62%. efficient, so figure less than 4000 lumens of total light output (about 3700). Even worse, it has a lot of side light. Six feet directly below the light gets you about 22 lumens per sq foot.

No clue on the LED, but since its rated as an assembly, you will actually get 4000 lumens. At the very least, your starting out with more

The LED gets you a bit more light at 50 watts.

For the flouresant, the Wattage on HD sight for the fluorescent is wrong. They list it as 32 watts, thats just the bulbs. For an efficient ballast, figure (2 x 32)/ .92= 70 watts.

(70-50)/ 70 = ~ 30% energy savings for a similar light level. The question is how long will it take you to save $110 in bulbs and electricity?

At 8 hours a day, 5 day week and fifty two weeks per year and about $.11 kwh you will save about $ 10.40 per year (3800 hours per year). Straight ROI (not counting cost of money up front) says about 11 years to break even. Assuming the fluorescent needs a set of bulbs at the halfway point its about a ten year payback.

Edit: One other thing is there are fluorescent lights with much better efficiency than the unit you linked to. That could put the payback out a lot further.

 

[cybrdyke]

If someone knows a better way to show a .pdf file please feel free to do so with this attachment.

What you are looking at is a comparison of a 'base model' 2 lamp T8 fixture to 3 other light fixtures. One is a LED fixture, one is a standard fixture with LED tubes, one is a ONE lamp T5HO fixture.

Thoughts and reasons for the data that was input:

• 1 lamp T5HO is roughly equivalent to 2 lamps of the other types. To keep the comparison of ROI fair, I didn't use a 2 lamp T5HO fixture.

• The Hours Operated and the Energy Cost (9c) were requested by another forum member.

• The prices of the items were mostly gathered from the Home Depot website.

I used 10 fixtures as sample for each. I figured this was representative of a normal or maybe a little bigger than normal garage.

My thoughts on the results:
Total Installation Cost + 15 year Cost of ownership is what you can add together to get the bottom bottom bottom line.

I hope this helps some of you.
Discuss......

CD

 

[JordonMusser]

Ill tell ya what.. for consistency and reliability. I love that all my LEDs match, and they will last 10+ years. My old garage had FLs, and after replacing them I had brightness and CCT differences that anoyed me. Not to mention sometimes I was too lazy to switch out tubes and had a light out for awhile!