LED Shop Lights?
- Thread starter GSMetal
- Start date
nehog
Well-known member
I doubt anyone has that much money! LEDs are still way too expensive.
dankicksass
Well-known member
Alert Stamping has an LED drop light conversion kit for $15-30...
IMO, LED lighting is overrated. It costs too much and its real world energy consumption is equal or greater to CFL. I've got about 4000W-equivalent of fluorescents in the front of my garage, lights on ten to twelve hours a day my electric bill is under $15. Converting all those CFL and tubes to LED would cost at least a thousand dollars and I wouldn't save anything significant on power.
IMO, LED lighting is overrated. It costs too much and its real world energy consumption is equal or greater to CFL. I've got about 4000W-equivalent of fluorescents in the front of my garage, lights on ten to twelve hours a day my electric bill is under $15. Converting all those CFL and tubes to LED would cost at least a thousand dollars and I wouldn't save anything significant on power.
trainer
Well-known member
LED's are coming. I recently changed a bunch of t-8s in refrigerated counters at work to LEDs the cost was about $70 per 4' bulb for daylight white. At the beginning of the job we were quoted $130 per bulb, so the price is dropping.
The old fluorescent ballasts were taken out, so there could be a savings there if your starting from new.
The reason LEDs are so much more efficient is that they do not burn something to create light, so not nearly as much energy is wasted in heat.
The old fluorescent ballasts were taken out, so there could be a savings there if your starting from new.
The reason LEDs are so much more efficient is that they do not burn something to create light, so not nearly as much energy is wasted in heat.
ForceFed70
Well-known member
LED's are coming. Not sure if they will ever replace florescent lighting for general purpose overhead lighting, but they do have a place for things like coolers, strip lighting, etc.
I have no idea WTF you are talking about with regard to lights "burning something" tho. The only lights that come close to that are incandescent and even they don't burn anything until the filiment lets go.
dankicksass
Well-known member
The arguments that LEDs don't burn out and don't get hot are very misguided. The failure rate on the stuff that's available in the box stores is enormous - just look at the piles of them at the return counter at your local HD - and they throw significant heat from the transformer. Why do you think they all have exposed cooling fins, aesthetics? LEDs will get better, sure. In strip lighting with separate transformers and anywhere where they can get DC voltage, they're already pretty good. For today though, fluorescents and halogens is where it's at.
2manytoyz
Well-known member
One of my hobbies is solar power. The first major step is to reduce power consumption as it's much easier to save energy, than to make it.
I researched LED lighting quite a bit. Bought some, had mixed results. One of the issues is an LED, by it's very design, tends to be a very directional light source. Great for task lighting, not good for general lighting. Also prohibitively expensive. I do agree, the technology is still developing, but not ready just yet.
But CFL bulbs for room lighting work great. They use very little power for the amount of light they produce. I've powered these with solar energy for years via solar panels, a battery bank, and inverters.
Moving to our new house next month. I'll use standard fluorescent bulbs for garage illumination, again via solar. Maybe not quite as efficient as LEDs, but far cheaper, and I don't illuminate my garage enough hours to worry about too much power. If that was a concern, my first choice would be to install light tubes, and let the sun directly illuminate the garage.
We do have a "green" building at work, with LED lights in the same style as a fluorescent tube. Those rooms are about 1/2 the brightness of a standard room. That didn't appeal to me at all! Conversely, when I tell people at my house that the lighting is all solar powered, they are amazed. So for now, I'm sticking with fluorescent tubes, and CFL bulbs.
I researched LED lighting quite a bit. Bought some, had mixed results. One of the issues is an LED, by it's very design, tends to be a very directional light source. Great for task lighting, not good for general lighting. Also prohibitively expensive. I do agree, the technology is still developing, but not ready just yet.
But CFL bulbs for room lighting work great. They use very little power for the amount of light they produce. I've powered these with solar energy for years via solar panels, a battery bank, and inverters.
Moving to our new house next month. I'll use standard fluorescent bulbs for garage illumination, again via solar. Maybe not quite as efficient as LEDs, but far cheaper, and I don't illuminate my garage enough hours to worry about too much power. If that was a concern, my first choice would be to install light tubes, and let the sun directly illuminate the garage.
We do have a "green" building at work, with LED lights in the same style as a fluorescent tube. Those rooms are about 1/2 the brightness of a standard room. That didn't appeal to me at all! Conversely, when I tell people at my house that the lighting is all solar powered, they are amazed. So for now, I'm sticking with fluorescent tubes, and CFL bulbs.
Provincial
Well-known member
I have both flourescent and LED trouble lights. The flourescents don't put out a lot of heat, but they are warm enough to notice. The LED is completely cool. I have a LED floodlight bulb that I got at Costco mounted in a clamp holder. It works great for task lighting in fairly close quarters, and I don't have to worry about touching a hot bulb.
I am building a new shop and was loaned a 4-bulb 48" T-5 fixture by the electrical supply company. It puts out an incredible amount of light. At the moment, I have it upside down pointing at the ceiling near the middle of the shop, where it reflects off the white doors and vinyl insulation covering. The room is 40'x60', 22' high at the eaves and 29' high at the peak. The one unit puts out enough light to do general tasks, but not enough for any fine work.
I expect to get adequate lighting with four of these fixtures and four more 2-bulb units at the corners.
Upon further investigation, the "loaner" fixture has T-5 bulbs.
I am building a new shop and was loaned a 4-bulb 48" T-5 fixture by the electrical supply company. It puts out an incredible amount of light. At the moment, I have it upside down pointing at the ceiling near the middle of the shop, where it reflects off the white doors and vinyl insulation covering. The room is 40'x60', 22' high at the eaves and 29' high at the peak. The one unit puts out enough light to do general tasks, but not enough for any fine work.
I expect to get adequate lighting with four of these fixtures and four more 2-bulb units at the corners.
Upon further investigation, the "loaner" fixture has T-5 bulbs.
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
While I have always advocated making a building taller than you think you need, this is way tall. Why did you go so tall? Nuclear reactor inside?, parking for double decker buses? Parking your favorite business jet? Inquiring minds......
Charles
Provincial
Well-known member
Repair of heavy equipment related to my business, up to and including a 100,000 lb. excavator. Rather than putting in a bridge crane, the high ceiling lets me use the crane on my service truck inside for lifting the heavy stuff on and off the equipment.
No epoxy floor paint, either. Too much welding and stuff scraping across the floor.
There are already LED replacement lamp assemblies for 4' fluorescent fixtures, I've seen them being tested by our operations people at work. I know that they remove the ballast when they're installed. I don't know if anything goes in the ballast's place, but if I had designed them and if the ballast had to come out anyway, I would put the AC-DC converter in its place so the LED strips could be cheaper and not have to have the converter built in.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Well, it looks like the brand that they're using has the AC-DC conversion done inside the lamp bulb housing...
http://www.earthled.com/DirectLED-FL-UserGuide.pdf
Looks like one bypasses the ballast and is good to go.
Looks like, right now, the 8' LED replacements are around $115 each. They appear to draw about 30W, as opposed to at least 75W for an 8' T12, which currently run around $16 a bulb.
If you're not using your shop a lot then it doesn't make sense to switch to LED replacements at the moment. Certainly as the technology develops they'll get cheaper and cheaper and with the disappearance of T12 coming up it may well make sense to look at that point.
If you've got a business running two shifts with the lights on for sixteen-plus hours a day, the new bulbs might pay for themselves fairly quickly. No ballasts to replace, no starters to replace, and bulbs that should last longer than the standard fluorescent units are all plusses, on top of the electrical savings.
I'm not out in my shop enough to justify the costs, but some might be.
StaggeringGoat
Well-known member
As somebody else said the problem with LEDs is that the light is very directional. Great in a flashlight, not so much in your garage. I got a bunch of 10w LED flood bulbs for free and put them into six can lights in my kitchen. 60 watts of LED replaced 360 watts of incandescents quite well. I like the color of the light and it is great for task lighting in the kitchen.
That said, regular price is $50 each, so I would have spent $300 for that energy savings, if I hadn't got them for free. I forget how many lumens/watt the LED bulb puts out but it's right around the same or even worse than T8 fluorescents. The LED driver isn't very efficient but could be better...
That said, regular price is $50 each, so I would have spent $300 for that energy savings, if I hadn't got them for free. I forget how many lumens/watt the LED bulb puts out but it's right around the same or even worse than T8 fluorescents. The LED driver isn't very efficient but could be better...
You can buy led retrofit tubes here:
http://www.ecolightledsystems.com/
They are about $60 per tube (Canadian), a 4ft is 18W which replaces a T12/T8 (at about 32W). To install them you remove the balast and wire directly to the receptical, also known as the tombstone by some. You do lose some light from the conversion, about 700 lumens. Overall you save about 40w per 2 light fixture, thats 28W from the bulbs and 12W from the ballast. Ballasts are definatel not 12W specifically, its dependant on the individual ballast type, age, etc.
All that being said, unless you are trying to be "green" there is no point in this, the return on investment is roughly 5 years assuming the lights are on for >12 hours per day and you have to pay someone to install them.
The light is more directional then the regular tubes, but with regular office ceilings you don't notice. If you have super high ceilings (like 22ft...) you are probably better off with a low bay style light, but they are expensive (>$1000 each..).
http://www.ecolightledsystems.com/
They are about $60 per tube (Canadian), a 4ft is 18W which replaces a T12/T8 (at about 32W). To install them you remove the balast and wire directly to the receptical, also known as the tombstone by some. You do lose some light from the conversion, about 700 lumens. Overall you save about 40w per 2 light fixture, thats 28W from the bulbs and 12W from the ballast. Ballasts are definatel not 12W specifically, its dependant on the individual ballast type, age, etc.
All that being said, unless you are trying to be "green" there is no point in this, the return on investment is roughly 5 years assuming the lights are on for >12 hours per day and you have to pay someone to install them.
The light is more directional then the regular tubes, but with regular office ceilings you don't notice. If you have super high ceilings (like 22ft...) you are probably better off with a low bay style light, but they are expensive (>$1000 each..).
ForceFed70
Well-known member
LED's are directional. They have to be that way by design.
A typical LED will emit light in a 15* cone. With diffusing material added into the plastic LED casing you can get up to a 30* cone.
To get around this, manufacturers build LED arrays with multiple LED's aimed at different angles. But an individual LED is still a very directional light source.
I agree with you in theory but in practice you can buy wide angle LEDs...
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=404-1044-6-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=Z-221A-ND
gatchel
Well-known member
I also have done much research on LED technologies and really really wanted 6" cans in the garage with LED modules in them.
The reality is that you will get "more" light and better bang for your buck with a quality fluorescent fixture and tubes. Get a high CRI bulb and you'll be fine. The electrical savings with LED's compared to tubes is minimal. I was going to use Cree LR6-DR1000 modules at about $90 each plus the can. My current lighting fixtures and bulbs (FO32/841/ECO Bulbs, 24 of them) produce 70,800 lumens initially and last for 30,000 hrs (rated).
Do the math. That's over $7000 just for the LED modules and cans, not including wiring all 70 of them up.
Now there are a lot of other things that have to be factored in here but simply put it wasn't a good deal.
And at about 140 lumens per square foot, I'm not complaining.
Now in the house, with fixtures that are on for several hours a day and bulbs that are cheaper because they are subsidized by the local utilities, that's a different story. I have several LED bulbs in the house. They beat CFL's hands down in a couple of areas.
If you really still want LED's in the garage there are several manufacturers that make High bay and Low Bay LED fixtures, Beta LED is one of them. They are still pricey but not quite as much. (about half)
The reality is that you will get "more" light and better bang for your buck with a quality fluorescent fixture and tubes. Get a high CRI bulb and you'll be fine. The electrical savings with LED's compared to tubes is minimal. I was going to use Cree LR6-DR1000 modules at about $90 each plus the can. My current lighting fixtures and bulbs (FO32/841/ECO Bulbs, 24 of them) produce 70,800 lumens initially and last for 30,000 hrs (rated).
Do the math. That's over $7000 just for the LED modules and cans, not including wiring all 70 of them up.
Now there are a lot of other things that have to be factored in here but simply put it wasn't a good deal.
And at about 140 lumens per square foot, I'm not complaining.
Now in the house, with fixtures that are on for several hours a day and bulbs that are cheaper because they are subsidized by the local utilities, that's a different story. I have several LED bulbs in the house. They beat CFL's hands down in a couple of areas.
If you really still want LED's in the garage there are several manufacturers that make High bay and Low Bay LED fixtures, Beta LED is one of them. They are still pricey but not quite as much. (about half)
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Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
LED's will be the future of lighting. It's relatively new now but s time goes on expense will go down. Where I work we are currently retrofitting quite a few planes with LED lighting. But with the LED's also comes heat, just not as much as HID's and such. All of our LED retrofits have heatsinks built into the housings they go in. They do get rather hot. In the initial stages of the prototypes, quite a few of the components would get melted. We constantly had to try different materials that would be compatible with the heat generated. The upside is that they use considerably less power than the lights they replaced and the life of the LED's is way longer than their counterparts. Initially the LED's cost more but the money savings comes from not having to replace them like conventional lighting. If you notice most semi trucks going down the highway, almost all have converted over to LED. on the tractors and trailers. A lot of the cars are also going to LED's. It will be a few short years before almost every light goes to LED until something else better comes out.