Legrand (Menards) LED Dimmer switches

[woodzy]

I just finished building a new home and about 98% of all the lighting is LED. Menards was my friend in this build and purchased all the equipment when they had their 11% off sale. I used their main brand of LED (make sure they are LED approved) Dimmer switches. They go under the name of Legrand or Pass & Seymour.

In the past three months, I have replace 3 of these switches already not because they failed but the LED lights flicker as other appliances are used in the house. If I run the dishwasher, you think you were back in the 70's under some illicit drugs. I understand that some LED at low light flicker, but these would flicker at any setting of the dimmer switch. My wife blamed it on the electricians (my sons and me), but I decided to go to Menards and buy a different brand. I tried the Lutron brand - and solved - no issue with any flickering. Now I only have 8 more to replace....

 

[yeldogt]

That was the great thing about the good old incandescent bulb -- it is easy to dim and lots of dimmers were available. With all the changes in bulb technology, the last 20 years has been a pain.

Luton stopped making a couple whole lines of dimmers due to incompatibilities with LED lighting technology. Luton makes a better product ... the cheaper dimmers never worked as well. If you go on Lutron web site they have a couple interesting downloads explaining the various ways to dim and why some are better then others.

I'm seeing the same thing happening with LED bulbs as with CFL's --- the bulbs have different light characteristics from brand to brand and batch to batch .. so when one burn out the replacements look different .. very noticeable when dimmed.


I'm going through this currently as I plan the new lighting on my build.

 

[ishiboo]

I just finished building a new home and about 98% of all the lighting is LED. Menards was my friend in this build and purchased all the equipment when they had their 11% off sale. I used their main brand of LED (make sure they are LED approved) Dimmer switches. They go under the name of Legrand or Pass & Seymour.

In the past three months, I have replace 3 of these switches already not because they failed but the LED lights flicker as other appliances are used in the house. If I run the dishwasher, you think you were back in the 70's under some illicit drugs. I understand that some LED at low light flicker, but these would flicker at any setting of the dimmer switch. My wife blamed it on the electricians (my sons and me), but I decided to go to Menards and buy a different brand. I tried the Lutron brand - and solved - no issue with any flickering. Now I only have 8 more to replace....

Yeah, they're not great dimmers.

One thing to consider is that if you're spending $30-40 for a dimmer, for $50 you could have an Insteon dimmer. They work great with common LEDs, and you can automate your home

 

[cybrdyke]

It's easier to replace bulbs than dimmers isn't it?
This is an LED industry-wide issue. The root of the issue is that there is no standardization of LED components. Remember, LED lighting is still in (relative) infancy and things are still getting figured out. Compound this with the rapid evolution of technology and just as soon as you think you have everything figured out......it all changes.
Dimmers made over the last few decades were designed to dim incandescent lamps, which are a resistive load. LED's are a capacitive load, so the technology of old dimmers is not correct for new lamps.
Since all LED's have a driver, the dimmer is actually not dimming the LED, but controlling the driver, which in turn controls the LEDs. This is quite different than incandescent. So, the compatibility needs to be between the dimmer and the driver.
This is all good and well until you put in a different lamp with a different driver. Or, until the manufacturer of your lamp makes a new batch with a different driver. Then the compatibility can change. What worked yesterday might not work today.
Further, you might be surprised by how FEW LED lamps can be put onto a dimming switch circuit. Capacitance adds up quickly. I've seen 75 watts of LED lamps cause black smoke to come out of a 1000 watt incandescent dimmer.
I know alot of folks on this forum like to seek out and use the cheapest LEDs that they can find and these are by far the worst offenders when it comes to dimming performance. All I can tell you is to do your research. Seek out the websites of the lamp manufacturers and the dimmer manufacturers and find their compatibility charts. Lutron's is www.lutron.com/dimcflled . Find a product combination that is on BOTH manufacturer's charts and you should be good to go.
CD

 

[sochnedo]

If I run the dishwasher, you think you were back in the 70's under some illicit drugs. I understand that some LED at low light flicker, but these would flicker at any setting of the dimmer switch. My wife blamed it on the electricians (my sons and me), but I decided to go to Menards and buy a different brand. I tried the Lutron brand - and solved - no issue with any flickering. Now I only have 8 more to replace....???

 

[woodzy]

It's easier to replace bulbs than dimmers isn't it?
This is an LED industry-wide issue. The root of the issue is that there is no standardization of LED components. Remember, LED lighting is still in (relative) infancy and things are still getting figured out. Compound this with the rapid evolution of technology and just as soon as you think you have everything figured out......it all changes.
Dimmers made over the last few decades were designed to dim incandescent lamps, which are a resistive load. LED's are a capacitive load, so the technology of old dimmers is not correct for new lamps.
Since all LED's have a driver, the dimmer is actually not dimming the LED, but controlling the driver, which in turn controls the LEDs. This is quite different than incandescent. So, the compatibility needs to be between the dimmer and the driver.
This is all good and well until you put in a different lamp with a different driver. Or, until the manufacturer of your lamp makes a new batch with a different driver. Then the compatibility can change. What worked yesterday might not work today.
Further, you might be surprised by how FEW LED lamps can be put onto a dimming switch circuit. Capacitance adds up quickly. I've seen 75 watts of LED lamps cause black smoke to come out of a 1000 watt incandescent dimmer.
I know alot of folks on this forum like to seek out and use the cheapest LEDs that they can find and these are by far the worst offenders when it comes to dimming performance. All I can tell you is to do your research. Seek out the websites of the lamp manufacturers and the dimmer manufacturers and find their compatibility charts. Lutron's is www.lutron.com/dimcflled . Find a product combination that is on BOTH manufacturer's charts and you should be good to go.
CD

Well, it might be easier to replace the bulbs but I purchased about three different LED retrofit kits by three different manufactures. The idea was that if some of them fail, I can then start to remove the entire room and use those as spares and replace that room. I have over 70 of just the retrofit LED in 6" cans in the exterior, interior, garage, and basement. Love the way the look - just some time they are too bright. I really think the Lutron dimmers work the best.

Below is a view at night - these were the cheapest of the bunch - $12.95 each and boy do they have a heavy heat sink.