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Let sears know how i feel about chinese tools

Skin

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Let me give an example I experienced years ago. As a young man I worked at the local hardware store. One day a gentleman came in to purchase a shovel.

He was layed off from Brown Shoe, as they had just closed the local plant and sent the jobs overseas. He ranted and raved for 15 minutes about how the US public had cost him his job by buying China ****.

We went to look at the shovel selection. I saw a great opportunity to sell a high end USA product. My first recommendation to him was a Blue Grass USA shovel with a retail price of $45. ( this was the shove we sold to the grave diggers and plumbers for heavy everyday use) He said that was too expensive so I offered him a Tru Temper USA made shovel for $29, it was also to expensive. Next up was a no name but still USA shovel at $15. He asked if I had anything cheaper because he was not going to use it very often.

Ended up selling him a China made piece of junk shovel for $4.99

I will never forget how he blamed everyone who bought and wore imported shoes for his job loss but would not spend his money to keep the American shovel worker employed.

Did I want to sell an USA made product? Yes
Did the customer want to buy American? Yes
Did I sell an American product? No
Did the customer buy the American made product? No
Why? The all mighty dollar that is why.

Blame Sears if you want to but the truth be told we are in the minority. We use tools, collect tools and enjoy tools. We are willing to pay for what we want but most of Sears customers do not give a **** about anything except the price.

Just the way I see it.

No no no, you cannot only blame the consumer. Much of the outsourcing is done by massive corporations while private companies remain in business manufacturing their products like they have for decades. Examples include Vermont American purchase by Bosch -> China. Irwin purchase by Newell Rubbermaid, many Irwin tools now made in China, Irwin closes Vise-Grip plant in DeWitt Nebraska that had been operating for 80 years, now china. Stanley Tool Works, hell all Stanley products are outsourced and those use to be all US made tools now i cant find one. Sabina factory closed, MAC going offshore more and more, same with Proto.

Danaher, whome Sears has their contracts with and now Craftsman is at an all time high for imported tools. Matco, again going offshore in larger quantities.

Meanwhile companies like Wilde, Eklind, Mayhew, Jonhson, Wright, Vaughan, Channellock [just to name a few] are still making the vast majority, if not all, of their products in the States. How are these little companies able to keep on when other companies owned by giant faceless corperations with unimaginable wealth continuously have their domestic plants closed citing profit issues? Its all ******** damage control and PR spin. Like someone else said they're trying to turn a buck as fast as possible regardless of the long term effects. Do you really thing the shareholders or CEOs of Newell Rubbermaid gave two shits when they requested a plant that had been open for nearly a century be closed because they, according to them, 'couldnt sell their products'? The very same products that end up being sold at the EXACT SAME PRICE? Lets wake up a bit.
 
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Stuey

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Im sure this post will be deleted.

I just read the sales flyer for my local Menard's (a Home Depot type of chain). They are proudly displaying "Made In The USA" stamps next to the products in the flyer to attract customers and increase the sales of their products. The flyer for my local Sears store does not do that. Guess which tools I'm going to buy?


BlueCrewGuyInMA said…

A tiny local store (which, compared to Sears, is exactly what Menard's is) can get away with that. Vendors would cease doing business with Sears altogether if they pulled that kind of stunt with its advertising.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since when is Proudly displaying the American flag next to American made Goods a "Stunt" ? Its gonna take some time but there is a large movement of people who are sick and tired of seeing Made In China, Taiwan, Mexico, Indonesia on Everything that we buy. This goes for everything.. Not just tools in general. I promise to make it known to every consumer that i meet to let them know exactly what there buying at "Sears" I will do everything in my power to point them in a Direction that will get them Quality, Comparitive pricing and to a company that cares about Americans and Jobs here in the US. Im sure my post will be deleted, But let me say that Cached copies and Links to this thread have been distributed to many well know Garage forums where 100's of thousands of members congregate to talk about tools, Old and NEW.

I'm pretty sure that this guy's response wasn't officially sanctioned.

Sears DID advertise their mechanics hand tools as made in USA (scanned example via TG). I've noticed flags and COO mentions in other catalogs as well, so it's most definitely allowed.
 

treasureseeker

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I screamed Chinese tools **** in the direction of my local Sears in the quiet of night but on arrival they already changed the name to 西爾斯
 

woody 73

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one thing can be said,if a man can buy a chinese wrench cheaper at HF (and get the HF warranty),then why shop at sears?
Either sears is going to compete with HF and lower their prices or die on the vine.
 

Bolster

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Anybody see the irony of this thread staying at the top of the forum list, next to the "gearwrench 50% off at sears this weekend" thread?

:lol_hitti
 

d33pt

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Anybody see the irony of this thread staying at the top of the forum list, next to the "gearwrench 50% off at sears this weekend" thread?

:lol_hitti

yeah i posted in that GW thread. some good deals, but i just can't bring myself to buy it after having this discussion.
 

rockchucker

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rockchucker said:
I have purchased Craftsman Tools all of my 36 year life. Until now. I will NEVER buy ANYTHING Craftsman EVER again. You guys need to pull your head out of your ************ and stop outsourcing to China. Does "Made in the USA" not mean anything to you sorry excuses for an American company?



This is also very great. So if one of my Made in the USA Tools breaks now I get some hunk of **** from China. Wonderful. You guys have not only sold out on the new Tools being delivered you have completely debunked the ENTIRE reason to buy Craftsman with the replacement guarantee. You have just defiled many of the customers that have been true to Craftsman Made in the USA brand.



You have failed miserably. I am sorry to have EVER purchased ANY Craftsman Tools EVER.

100% Complete and total FAIL on your part. I hope your Employees tell your newfounded idiot CEO to take a huge flying leap.

I hope charges get pressed against you for Treason. SELL OUTS!


They can **** it. I am angry. The Treason bit was a little much but I feel violated.



Just my .o2
 

mrholeshot

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Anybody see the irony of this thread staying at the top of the forum list, next to the "gearwrench 50% off at sears this weekend" thread?

:lol_hitti

Well with Gearwrench you know what you are getting as far as COO and price. Gearwrench pretty much invented the modern ratchet wrench. The fact it's made in Asia really doesn't bother me. It has been from the beginning. The price is good even when it at full price. Now if Craftsman restamps the same wrench under the Craftsman name and charges 50% more that the list price of the gearwrench then I have a problem with them just like I would if Snap-On relabled the same wrench and sold it for 5 times as much. All the years and all the money I spent buying USA made tools from MAC, Snap-ON,Matco, Cornwell, Proto,S-K,Craftsman and a few dozen more companies didn't seem to keep all these companies form outsorcing. It wasn't a lack of sales that made Vise Grip form moving overseas. As a professional technician I bought the best in tools and equiptment because thats what I wanted. The fact of the matter was that when Gearwrench hit the market all I could think of was Gimmick after all the already failed attenps by US companies including Snap-On to build a useable ratcheting wrench. Someone bought me a set for Christmas and after using them for a week I saw they were no joke but really helped me make more money. I have no probelm buying the original maker no more that I would have a problem buying a set of Alligator pliers from Knipex. The problem wans't and still isn't with the consumer. The problem is with US companies who look at the bottom line and decide more isn't good enough anymore and decide to ride the Name good USA tools made them with Asian knock-offs. There have been Asian tools as long as I can remember but as the quality of Asian tools has and keeps getting better the USA brands have Compromized the quality of their products to the point where many Asian Built tools exceeed the quality of US Built tools. You can't blame the US consumer for buying the best tools that their dollar will buy. You also can't blame the average consumer for not stepping onto the Snap-On truck for tools to change the plugs in their vehicles. I also blame all these people who go down buy a tool and use it once and then decide to go on a company wesite and give it rave reviews and convince others to buy it like " I bought this sander yesterday to sand a door frame and it was the best sander I ever owned". bottom line is Gearwrench is and always has been Asian. Craftsman use to boast USA USA quality at the best price. It was once like that. No More. Thats what people are up in arms about.
 

mrholeshot

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I returned one of their Craftsman professional mini side cutters after seeing it was made in China. Even Knipex is selling some Asian tools now. I have a pair of the cutters from the link below and they are Asian. They had a larger pair that I don’t see on their website now from Asia also.

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1371&groupID=1437
I was very upset when I bought my Craftsman Pro Mini plires set only to find out they were made in China. Funny thing is they are excellant quality. If they didn't have the Craftsman logo I would have thought they were made by Knipex. I hate they were made in China but they were just too high quality to take back
 

Stuey

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I was very upset when I bought my Craftsman Pro Mini plires set only to find out they were made in China. Funny thing is they are excellant quality. If they didn't have the Craftsman logo I would have thought they were made by Knipex. I hate they were made in China but they were just too high quality to take back
Are you kidding? I hate those mini pliers. How often do you hear me say that?
 

nate379

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The Sears in Wasilla is the same way. I pass the store a few times a week and I've never seen more than 15-20 cars in the parking lot, while the Wallmart and Lowe's down the road has a full parking lot.

I give you an A+ for effort,but in the long run sears will make more and more tools in china.
Funny but I stopped into sears today with my wife and the whole place was dead,not sure how they keep going let alone pay the light bill ?
 

mrholeshot

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Are you kidding? I hate those mini pliers. How often do you hear me say that?

The ones I have are about 4 years old. I havent seen them recently but yes Mine are better than any US built mini pliers I've owned. Very well made.
 

SnowBlaZeR2

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Are you kidding? I hate those mini pliers. How often do you hear me say that?

The ones I have are about 4 years old. I havent seen them recently but yes Mine are better than any US built mini pliers I've owned. Very well made.

I have to agree here. One of the few Craftsman tools I own that were made outside the US. Great set of pliers if you ask me.
 

Flatland Dave

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Maybe someone should ask "Steve" about out sourcing HIS job to china I'm quite sure there is some American educated person over there that could lay on the same BS that Steve is for less money per post on the site.
 

nate379

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Don't believe that is true.

I had a set of either Matco or Mac wrenches that were darn near identical to the flex head Gear Wrenches I have now. I bought those around 1998 and they were stolen. I was at Sears around 2003 when I saw the Gear Wrenches, was a brand new item at the time. Were around same cost as Matco, I paid close to $200 for 14 wrenches in total.

Gearwrench pretty much invented the modern ratchet wrench.
 

Stuey

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The ones I have are about 4 years old. I havent seen them recently but yes Mine are better than any US built mini pliers I've owned. Very well made.
The ones I have are about 2-3 years old. I also have two black handled mini pliers, and while they look similar their performance is a night and day difference.
 
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Hiball

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Kevin-Pace said…

"Was the latest Tool movement (Flare/combination) due to Sk's Bankruptcy?"

In part, yes. It was a combination of that bankruptcy and the somewhat covert merging of Danaher Tool Group (formerly one of Craftsman's chief manufacturer's) and Cooper Tools into the new Apex Tool Group. The board of Apex has decided to move numerous processing operations overseas and have taken the previously existing Craftsman contracts from Danaher with them. Apex now being one of the largest manufacturer's of tools in the world (the list of brands they make is pages long), one would be hard pressed to find an American manufacturer who could make what they make in the needed quantity let a lone at all anymore.

So I suppose the question to the detractants is, "If Craftsman needs a tool made, and the only company who makes it in a quantity large enough to supply the national chain produces offshore, what course do they take? Have the tool made overseas and continue to lifetime warranty the tools through the store like they always have, or discontinue any tool that can't be produced in the U.S. and apologize profusely to everyone who ever bought the tool with the idea that they would someday be able to exchange it if it broke and now there is no tool so they are screwed?"

I don't like the situation any better than you do, trust me. I want to sell American made tools, but I would rather have the tools readily available from my local Sears for purchase and exchange at a much more reasonable price than truck tools as opposed to having no tools at all. The better of two evils I'm afraid. We all need to realize that it's not as simple as saying, "Produce more tools in the U.S." and then having it done for us. The world just doesn't work that way.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I asked them if the SK bankruptcy had anything to do with the offshoring of the Craftsman Flare/combo's. Here is the response i got, At least we got a answer.
 

Skin

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I dont know what the specifics of their contracts are with Danaher or how long they're tied to them for but i still think the SK bankruptcy was THE opportunity for Sears to scoup it up and start producing their own tools.

I wonder if they'd blame Danaher for the cheapening of things like sockets and ratchets as well [plastic pieces/poor chrome]. Probably. However Craftsman must be a very large and important client for Danaher so i find it hard to believe that if someone complained to them about the quality of the production they'd improve it. Same with locating US made counterparts. Professional Combination wrenches for example. Are they saying Danaher is no longer offering something as basic as a set of full polish wrenches produced in a domestic factory? I dont know if i buy that.
 

Hiball

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I dont know what the specifics of their contracts are with Danaher or how long they're tied to them for but i still think the SK bankruptcy was THE opportunity for Sears to scoup it up and start producing their own tools.

I wonder if they'd blame Danaher for the cheapening of things like sockets and ratchets as well [plastic pieces/poor chrome]. Probably. However Craftsman must be a very large and important client for Danaher so i find it hard to believe that if someone complained to them about the quality of the production they'd improve it. Same with locating US made counterparts. Professional Combination wrenches for example. Are they saying Danaher is no longer offering something as basic as a set of full polish wrenches produced in a domestic factory? I dont know if i buy that.

I asked the same question via there forum, Ive yet to get a answer.
 

Bolster

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I dont know what the specifics of their contracts are with Danaher or how long they're tied to them for but i still think the SK bankruptcy was THE opportunity for Sears to scoup it up and start producing their own tools.

3.5 million is pocket change for even a small corporation to pay. Sears probably loses 3.5 million in stolen goods daily. Look at it this way. The amount SK sold for (3.5 million) is .07% of the debt that congress spends us into, on any single day. I'll bet Congresswoman Waters carries 3.5 million in her underpants on a normal day.
 
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Hiball

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Heres the latest response in regards to my question on looking into other options of having the Wrenches made here. Kinda interesting response...

After the contract is up, Is sears gonna look for other options? How far is this current trend gonna go? We know Danaher still produces tools here in the states for Matco, Armstrong."


The number of other options available dwindles each month as manufacturers go bankrupt, merge, and move more processes off the soil.

I have no hard facts to back it up, but I am unfortunately inclined to say not to count on that statement regarding Matco and Armstrong tools to be true for very long. Apex isn't going to run one factory here and one in China to fulfill different contracts on the same items. My guess is that the Matco and Armstrong wrenches that are of similar design to the Craftsman Pro's and flare nuts have already been moved to China and you'll start seeing ones with a different stamp (-Y-) as soon as the trucks burn through stockpiled inventory.

Again, I don't know this for sure, but it only makes sense.
 

Bolster

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My guess is that the Matco and Armstrong wrenches that are of similar design to the Craftsman Pro's and flare nuts have already been moved to China and you'll start seeing ones with a different stamp (-Y-) as soon as the trucks burn through stockpiled inventory.

Oy Vey. :(
 

kythri

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I'm not going to say the guy (Kevin Pace) is wrong, but I will say that I'd take rumors about Sears logistics from a store associate with a grain of salt.

The guy is NOT Sears executive management of any kind, and it's doubtful he's even management or junior management at a store level.
 

Skin

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Yes i agree. The Armstrong Combo wrenches [both plain box and ratcheting box] are almost certainly made in a different plant than the Sears wrenches as they have different patterns and letter stamping. Its been that way for awhile, so its extremely likely they have infact operated 2 plants in the past, nothing says they wont continue to. Now whether its cost effective to source them from that same plant to keep a Pro set of combos on hand given the much higher price of Armstrong tools is another matter. They probably couldnt sell them at an acceptable price point and turn a profit. Also whether the original source for said combo wrenches that sears use to sell is still around is also unknown.

What is known is that Gearwrench is one of the most popular brands that Sears sells. I'm sure they're aware of this hence the conversion of their store brands over to the exact same plants only carrying the Craftsman name in place of GW. Given how liberal they are with GW sales its also a pretty good guess that they make a much larger profit on that stuff. Also look at their recent Craftsman "Innovation" tools like the universal combos [the black ones] and ratcheting box ends, all of that has been from China. Point being they certainly dont seem to be putting up a fight to keep the Craftsman name on domestic made tools.
 
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kythri

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From another thread:

SHC-BlueToolsCrew said:
To demonstrate my team's commitment to great customer service, If anyone ever has a problem (or you know someone with a problem) feel free to reach me at my email address at Sears: [email protected]. We are here for you to ensure that everytime you have a need or a problem, the Blue Tool Crew stands ready to help.

That's Steve Light, the VP/Head of Tools for Sears.

Perhaps he'll respond to some of your queries if you email him directly?
 

mrholeshot

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Well I can see where he makes a point. If you can't get a US comapany to build a tool what do you hand the customer who needs a replacement? Had S-K had a better marketing department they could be on top of the game right now with so many US companies moving offshore. Companies like Wright, Armstrong do not even have any retailers in my area. It's getting where my only choice for US made tools is the Snap-On truck and now that I'm retired from that game I don't see them in my future. In reality I don't need anymore tools but it's hard to break a 50 year old habit. It has gotten to the point that you just choose the best you can find for the money and deal with it. Who can blame a new auto technician for spending 3,500 for offshore tools to make the same money than it would with 35,000 worth of truck tools. If Technicians still got paid the same way they did 10-15 years ago (50% flat rate) the tool thing would be such a big deal.
 

philw

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IMO, One part of his answer which is totally believable is the part about the Apex board taking the contracts and sending them overseas.

Remember....COOPER IS EVIL!!!

They have left a path of destruction in their wake when it comes to the US hand tool industry.

Anyone remember Bonney or Herbrand?

Cooper doesn't seem to care about ANYTHING except profit. They seem to cut every corner possible to make a buck.

I despise that company.....
 

otis66

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The thing about china made tools is you do not need a lifetime warranty there so cheap you can buy a few and keep them in your box. I'm not gonna pay USA prices for china goods. If Sears decides to outsource Craftsman tools I'll just go to walmart. No reaseon to go to Sears anymore.
 

otis66

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A friend who runs a company who's mostly Chinese products are sold at the box stores told me "it's what the customer wants". I told him not to take it personal, but his products ****. That was his response to my statement. He kind of laughed, as he knew he stuff was poor quality. I think quality brands are a prime target for the new short sighted wall street. In an earlier time men spent 30 years with the same company and decisions were not driven by the days stock price. A time when what mattered 20 years from now was important, not just the next year or two. That is how quality and reputation were built. I do not think that could happen now. Truth is none of the execs at Sears care what happens to Craftsman in 10 years. And what makes sense in the short term makes little in the long term.

I am sure they expect sales to decline, but with greater margins they expect better overall profits on the Chinese stuff. They may be right. I think, as we become more of a throwaway culture, people value tools and fixing things less. I think the Craftsman line is a throwback to those days now gone. A time where tool buyers cared about and understood quality tools. I think the Evolve line was sears answer the modern man who only uses tools to fix his kids bike or put some other thing they purchased together. Either way it was a clear message sears did not view, nor could afford it's usa Craftsman line competing with cheap imports.

Craftsman has a huge lottery ticket to cash. They can trash the name and make a bundle before the brand gets used up selling junk! I think sadly, this is the only real choice they have with the pressure for profits. Be it making Craftsman's bottom line look great for a sell off, or making the investors happy.

"It's what the consumer wants" may be wrong. It should be the consumer will not spend more for good quality. And I think this is the wall the people who run Craftsman are up against. Cash in this golden ticket now, or wait for demand for their product slowly fade away.
I am guilty of it, on items I am not passionate about I grab the cheap one. Take joint knives and trowels for instance. Not many of use really care about them. Most of us would rather spend 1/2 for the ok quality one that gets the job done fine over the top of the line knife. I think most tool buyers are like us looking at taping knives. Plus, the ethnic makeup in the USA is going through a change. Many younger people have not had the experience of Dad using Craftsman like many of us had.

I think Sears will be out of business before this happens.
 

chevy302dz

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IMO, One part of his answer which is totally believable is the part about the Apex board taking the contracts and sending them overseas.

Remember....COOPER IS EVIL!!!

They have left a path of destruction in their wake when it comes to the US hand tool industry.

Anyone remember Bonney or Herbrand?

Cooper doesn't seem to care about ANYTHING except profit. They seem to cut every corner possible to make a buck.

I despise that company.....

This is very true, Cooper's record on destroying US manufacturing is so bad it makes Stanley look good.
 

Ben Iv

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is it sears choice or the company who makes their tools that has made the choice to go chinese?
 

Skin

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is it sears choice or the company who makes their tools that has made the choice to go chinese?

this would depend entirely on the specifics of the contract. Normally what happens is sears places a request for a tool, gets a sample, then makes any requests/changes based on said sample after which production would begin. Physical design changes, say for example the plastic selectors on the raised panel ratchets, dont normally just "appear" without approval from someone.

Sears would know ahead of time where production would be taking place as well of course.
 
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