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Lets play a game

SOCKETS

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california
For 9/32 Midget Collectors.

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE:
sockets are from 2 different sets
Both Midget Snap-On Sockets are Dated 1933 and Both are the same size and part number M-9 on both.IMG_2906.jpg
 
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1982fxr

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I think you're gonna have to get out of bed a little earlier if you want to pull the wool over this groups eyes.

Great screen name:rocker:
 

woody 73

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I like games, lets play a game Mr. Sockets...

In 1933:
Average cost of a new home $5,750.00.
Average wages per year $1,555.00.
Cost of a gallon of gas 10 cents.
Average cost for house rent $18.00 per month.
Vacuum cleaner $17.75.
Major dust Storms.
Worst year of the Great Depression with 25.2% people out of work. (I am sure they bought a lot of snap on tools).
1 in 4 were unemployed.
A loaf of bread cost 7 cents.
Ladies hat cost $1.69.
Silk and rayon stockings cost 39 cents a pair.
Plymouth car cost $445.00 dollars.
Campbells vegetable soup cost 10 cents.
Average laborers wage $20.00 per week (I bet they were buying snap on midget sets).
Hoovervilles were all over the place for the homeless, no snap on tools for them.
Hitler was appointed chancellor of Germany Not good.
Alcatraz opened up.
Typhus in Moscow.
Cuba Cival War.
20th amendment to the US Constitution.

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus Maybe he can buy you a 1933 snap on Midget
set for X-Mas.

Sets that I own zero. Sockets that I can show you Zero.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Woody,

Since a veteran GJ'er like me is occasionally befuddled by the reason and motivation behind some of your 'rants & ravings' type posts, I am guessing a newbie with less than 20 posts to his credit might be wondering what you're trying to say here and what may have precipitated it.

In these bits in particular you seem to be suggesting that Snap-on was expensive.

Worst year of the Great Depression with 25.2% people out of work. (I am sure they bought a lot of snap on tools).
Average laborers wage $20.00 per week (I bet they were buying snap on midget sets).
Hoovervilles were all over the place for the homeless, no snap on tools for them.
Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus Maybe he can buy you a 1933 snap on Midget
set for X-Mas.

If some people could not afford Snap-on tools in 1933, they would certainly have a hard time buying any tools from any major mfgr in 1933.

Snap-on 9/32-inch drive set, 16 pcs, w/box = $4.95 (1933)
Blackhawk 9/32-inch drive set, 11 pcs w/box = $7.60 (1935)
Bonney 9/32-inch drive set, 10 pcs w/box = $3.30 (1933)
MTF 9/32-inch drive set, 11 pcs w/box = $2.95 (1930)
Hinsdale 3/8-inch drive set, 21 pcs, w/box = $4.75 (1931)
Truth 3/8-inch drive set, 14 pcs w/box = $7.80 (1934)
Thorsen 3/8-inch drive set, 6 pcs w/box = $3.50 (1935)
Vlchek 3/8-inch drive set, 15 pcs w/box = $12.59 (1936)
Plomb 3/8-inch drive set, 15 pcs, w/box = $13.50 (1933)
 
OP
S

SOCKETS

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Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
74
Location
california
I like games, lets play a game Mr. Sockets...

In 1933:
Average cost of a new home $5,750.00.
Average wages per year $1,555.00.
Cost of a gallon of gas 10 cents.
Average cost for house rent $18.00 per month.
Vacuum cleaner $17.75.
Major dust Storms.
Worst year of the Great Depression with 25.2% people out of work. (I am sure they bought a lot of snap on tools).
1 in 4 were unemployed.
A loaf of bread cost 7 cents.
Ladies hat cost $1.69.
Silk and rayon stockings cost 39 cents a pair.
Plymouth car cost $445.00 dollars.
Campbells vegetable soup cost 10 cents.
Average laborers wage $20.00 per week (I bet they were buying snap on midget sets).
Hoovervilles were all over the place for the homeless, no snap on tools for them.
Hitler was appointed chancellor of Germany Not good.
Alcatraz opened up.
Typhus in Moscow.
Cuba Cival War.
20th amendment to the US Constitution.

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus Maybe he can buy you a 1933 snap on Midget
set for X-Mas.

Sets that I own zero. Sockets that I can show you Zero.



Abit confused here LoL. But here’s another fact U.S. Population 1933: 125.6 million


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
 
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Farmer J.

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UK, Cornwall/Hertfordshire.
Abit confused here LoL. But here’s another fact U.S. Population 1933: 125.6 million


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Don't worry about feeling a bit of confusion SOCKETS, and welcome to the GJ.
Your fresh information about the variations in 9/32" drive sockets is interesting and has sparked off some new debate.

I almost didn't look at this thread because of the title. The 'Work Ethic' was well ingrained in my formative years so I sometimes find 'games' confusing..

I found the posts by Woody and Lugz amusing, interesting and informative though! Luckily American Gothic was painted in 1930, so folk were well prepared for 1933.
 

y'sguy

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Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Woody,

Since a veteran GJ'er like me is occasionally befuddled by the reason and motivation behind some of your 'rants & ravings' type posts, I am guessing a newbie with less than 20 posts to his credit might be wondering what you're trying to say here and what may have precipitated it.

In these bits in particular you seem to be suggesting that Snap-on was expensive.



If some people could not afford Snap-on tools in 1933, they would certainly have a hard time buying any tools from any major mfgr in 1933.

Snap-on 9/32-inch drive set, 16 pcs, w/box = $4.95 (1933)
Blackhawk 9/32-inch drive set, 11 pcs w/box = $7.60 (1935)
Bonney 9/32-inch drive set, 10 pcs w/box = $3.30 (1933)
MTF 9/32-inch drive set, 11 pcs w/box = $2.95 (1930)
Hinsdale 3/8-inch drive set, 21 pcs, w/box = $4.75 (1931)
Truth 3/8-inch drive set, 14 pcs w/box = $7.80 (1934)
Thorsen 3/8-inch drive set, 6 pcs w/box = $3.50 (1935)
Vlchek 3/8-inch drive set, 15 pcs w/box = $12.59 (1936)
Plomb 3/8-inch drive set, 15 pcs, w/box = $13.50 (1933)

Wow! I'm surprised to see Blackhawk as the higher priced item. I didn't know that was the case. Good info as always Lugz. Thanks.
 

Private Lugnutz

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The Authentic Jersey Shore
Wow! I'm surprised to see Blackhawk as the higher priced item. I didn't know that was the case. Good info as always Lugz. Thanks.
You're welcome.

Honestly, I didn't know exactly what to expect before I looked up the respective prices, but I kind of figured that Snap-on would not be the highest priced in that era. It's a common misconception to transfer their modern status backwards. Snap-on tools may be considered expensive today, but in 1931, they were almost bankrupt. Forged Steel Products, one of their suppliers (Blue-Point wrenches and chisels, and Vacuum-Grip pliers), bailed them out, trading debt for shares, and in return, Bill Myers, former president of FSP became the president of Snap-on. Two years later they were still in modest, slow recovery.

I was a little surprised by just how affordable Milwaukee Tool & Forge, Bonney, and Thorsen tools were in comparison.

And if any mfgrs could be accused of price-gouging, it's Plomb and Vlchek! :)
 

Ricky Joe

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Roanoke, Va.
Snap-On learned quickly, though. Even today, they are a good but highly overpriced product. Even the Chinese have improved quality to within spitting distance of Snap-On’s. I have often said that they are a good tool company, and a great marketing company. Perrier is still water!
 

Private Lugnutz

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They did learn quickly, and I would agree their savvy extended well beyond the tool and die room. In fact, their most significant innovation, in my opinion, might be the Tool Truck. Yes, they were the first as far as I have been able to determine. During WWII they couldn't keep up with their commercial and industrial sales orders, which kept getting postponed due to War Production Board priorities. So they devised a plan to overstock their jobbers at the first opportunity they could, advising them to keep the tools in the trunks of their cars and trucks in anticipation of orders. Cornwell followed their lead in 1947. And the rest is history.

I don't own or buy modern tools, so I won't comment on Snap-on's current quality - a topic better suited for the inane and incessant 'Snap-on Rules!/HF Sux!' or 'HF Rules!/Snap-on Sux!' debates up on the General Discussion forum, fortunately!

But I think they were much better than merely "good" in 1933. And by 1942, they were in the highest tier in quality, and significance, along with Williams, Bonney, Plomb, Blackhawk, and Herbrand. In my assessment. An assessment I tried to substantiate with neutral evidence in a thread linked here. Not saying I am right. It is a highly subjective topic. But I respect assessments with back-up more than assessments based solely on personal opinion.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Did you ever think that Donald Nelson’s war experience may have influenced Craftsman’s change from New Britain to Plomb?
With respect to the latter part of your question, we've had this conversation before. New Britain was not a sole supplier. Sears, Roebuck, & Company had already briefly bought some socket drive wrenches and tools from Snap-on in the prewar period, and had also been already using S-K as well. So, there was no change from New Britain to Plomb. Plomb was an additional supplier. There was an overlap. In the late 40's, NB, S-K, and Plomb were all supplying drive tools at the same time. And, it is important to note that they had a fourth supplier for end wrenches during that entire prewar to wartime to postwar span. As I have said in the past, it looks to me like Sears making a decision in 1947-ish/8 to more or less centralize or sole-source their Craftsman production on Moore Drop Forge for all socket drive wrenches and end wrenches seems to be a lessons learned from decades of juggling multiple suppliers for those items. In a separate discussion on the Long C thread, GearWolf has concurred with me on that, which gave no small amount of confidence to my independent thoughts o the matter.

Now, going back to the first part of your question, was that centralizing/sole-sourcing many-to-one decision influenced by Donald Nelson's tenure as the Chairman of the War Production Board during WWII?

That's a great question. I would have to say almost certainly to some degree. As you know, he was chosen by FDR for his experience overseeing the acquisition of over 130,000 different products at the helm of Sears. FDR saw a model there for what he wanted to do. The magnitude, scale, and scope of the acquisitions he oversaw at the WPB during WWII dwarfed that in comparison, of course. And he was criticized for making many missteps at the WPB, the main theme of which could be argued falling into the category of multiplicity.

But I don't know how much of that affected what was going on in the Craftsman hand tools sector after the war, specifically. I'm not even sure when he returned to Sears. He took all of 1946 to write Arsenal of Democracy. Maybe a re-read is in order!
 

Private Lugnutz

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Yes. Not all of those at once. But certainly multiple suppliers in stages with the greatest overlap in the 40's. And I completely forgot Hinsdale's brief stint. I forget what Todd and I concluded on exact sequence, but Snap-on (C-series) may have been first, in 1932 or thereabouts, then Snap-on and New Britain (BE) through 1935-ish, then Snap-on, NB, and Hinsdale (also C-series, but 'Vanadium'), then NB (BE/(H)) and S-K (K) through the early part of WWII, then NB, S-K, and Plomb (U) in 1944 through the late 40's, when you could find the last vestiges of NB (H), Plomb (U), and S-K stock mixed with MDF =V= in the same dang boxes, with tin Heritage badges on the boxes. By 1949, just =V= and (K) in 3/4-drive only. By early 50's, more or less all =V=.
 
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