MercLSU
Well-known member
Nice! But is that a 100w light bulb in a 60w max socket? Doesn't that cause this to happen?
let's see your craftsman block grinders
- Thread starter emeraldcoupe
- Start date
Nice! But is that a 100w light bulb in a 60w max socket? Doesn't that cause this to happen?
M_George
Well-known member
Just checked, sure enough. Looks likes it got pretty hot to. Actually, everyone I've seen so far had a bulb that exceeded the rating. Good thing it doesn't have a plastic shield.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I'll make my comments in RED.
It's not easy to date these Block models with any deal of accuracy, because Sears sold them for a long time period with a lot of variations. Some model numbers even have lamps, quench trays, and others do not.
My stab is late 60's to early 70's.
As far as the stamped vs cast w/ exhaust wheel guard covers - the cast w/ exhaust covers are typically for 1/2, 3/4, & 1-HP models. However, some/most 1/2-HP and lower have stamped steel covers. There are exceptions, IIRC those are in the pre-Blocks.
There are differences between the PL side covers, apart from the round top and flat top models. Be sure to check p/n to verify compatibility.
Then there are the switches.
The oldest I've seen are the Stem style power switch.
Like the covers above, the typically Plastic covered power switch are found on 1/2, 3/4, & 1-HP models with dual voltage. However, some/most 1/2-HP and lower have Paddle power switch.
I hope this helps.
You may be right, but it's the closest I could find to illustrate it. The castings on mine are much heavier but they are the same general shape.
Here's another style of rear exhaust, cast iron, Wheel Guard Covers 3/4-HP m-397.19670
This is a round top Block
So here's what I got;
257.191401 1/2 HP
no year
stamped guards & red paddle switch
I don't have a picture of this model, but here is a picture from OWWM/VM.
397.19440 1/2 HP
Jul 9 1974 A printed on the galv motor cover plate
Leia guards (mine has inners but no outers) & red plastic 'safety' switch
I found this picture.
257.192190 1 HP
I think it has a date but it's on the ped so I will update if I ever move it
Leia guards (these models have the longer shafts also) & red plastic rocker switch
I found this picture of a round top Block
edit with better photo from earlier in this thread
This is a round top Block
It's not easy to date these Block models with any deal of accuracy, because Sears sold them for a long time period with a lot of variations. Some model numbers even have lamps, quench trays, and others do not.
My stab is late 60's to early 70's.
As far as the stamped vs cast w/ exhaust wheel guard covers - the cast w/ exhaust covers are typically for 1/2, 3/4, & 1-HP models. However, some/most 1/2-HP and lower have stamped steel covers. There are exceptions, IIRC those are in the pre-Blocks.
There are differences between the PL side covers, apart from the round top and flat top models. Be sure to check p/n to verify compatibility.
Then there are the switches.
The oldest I've seen are the Stem style power switch.
Like the covers above, the typically Plastic covered power switch are found on 1/2, 3/4, & 1-HP models with dual voltage. However, some/most 1/2-HP and lower have Paddle power switch.
I hope this helps.
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I think the stamped covers are only found on 6-inch grinders. AFAIK, all 7 & 8-inch blocks (not Pre-blocks) are die-cast alloy. Does this make sense?
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I think that's true.
I found a 1/2-HP m-397.19340 115V with 1/2" arbor, 6" stones, and stamped steel covers.
I found a 1/2-HP m-397.19440 115V/230V with 1/2" arbor, 7" stones, and cast covers.
Isn't this stuff fun?!?
bagged89s10
Well-known member
Well I didn't actually expect the grinder to sell but it's packed up and ready for FedEx
Exmaxima, do you still want this piece?
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torqueman2002
Well-known member
I received a reply on this question in the OWWM forum.I need help answering a Block question.
This is a 1/2-HP m-397.19590.
The question is why are the LH and RH wheel guards shaped differently? Notice the lower front 'lip' is fuller on the RH side.
I believe this has been discussed before, but can't recall if there was a definitive answer.
Thanks.
"Awhile ago, we theorized that the slot was for an attachment or accessory that never made it into production.
This feature is seen on the 7" and 8" die-cast aluminum grinders from the 1960s." by Brian Kachaduria.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Holy cow, can't believe someone paid $500 for that puppy!
Exmaxima, do you still want this piece?
Message sent. Thanks for remembering me!
torqueman you are spot on with each of your examples. Wish my shop was a bit easier to get things more pictureesque.
how useful might it be to use the styles of labels, paint colours, or other aesthetic/branding elements to date them? The fonts at least should give us some help as to when a model entered into production even if it doesn't give us the whole range time it was sold.
looking through this thread and the photos on the recent few pages it's pretty reasonable that both round and flat top models span the entire block grinder era. Seems like from the logo the 257.192190 1 HP may represent the last body style. Looking through your labels it looks like the 1 HP models don't span the whole era either, looks like all of them I see are the later styles after they moved away from the 'craftsman commercial' and crown top logo.
Many of the labels reference ANSI Z87 1-1968 which as you can guess
So that's another way to date them. I wonder if there was a body style or colour scheme change that coincides with the addition of that addition to the labels?
The point with all this wild speculation is to suggest that maybe the 1/2 HP 6" grinders can maybe be dated by the wheel guards? Maybe it doesn't represent an option like the lamps but rather moving away from the stamped to the cast in 6" size to match the larger ones?
how useful might it be to use the styles of labels, paint colours, or other aesthetic/branding elements to date them? The fonts at least should give us some help as to when a model entered into production even if it doesn't give us the whole range time it was sold.
looking through this thread and the photos on the recent few pages it's pretty reasonable that both round and flat top models span the entire block grinder era. Seems like from the logo the 257.192190 1 HP may represent the last body style. Looking through your labels it looks like the 1 HP models don't span the whole era either, looks like all of them I see are the later styles after they moved away from the 'craftsman commercial' and crown top logo.
Many of the labels reference ANSI Z87 1-1968 which as you can guess
from here
So that's another way to date them. I wonder if there was a body style or colour scheme change that coincides with the addition of that addition to the labels?
The point with all this wild speculation is to suggest that maybe the 1/2 HP 6" grinders can maybe be dated by the wheel guards? Maybe it doesn't represent an option like the lamps but rather moving away from the stamped to the cast in 6" size to match the larger ones?
cajunfirehawk
Well-known member
Me either since there just happen to be TWO other 1 HP blocks on ebay at the exact same time as yours
WOWTJ041
Member
There one for sale in Southern California for $75
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/6080368896.html
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/6080368896.html
torqueman2002
Well-known member
bagged89s10 - Congratulations!
cajunfirehawk
Well-known member
PIC INTENSE!
Sometimes I just luck out! If you remember the NOS block in the box that sold on ebay awhile back and it sold for $380 and me and Torqueman talked about it earlier in this thread and he posted some of the photos for reference to show what a new in the box block looked like.. Well that same seller had another block for sale and it was mounted to a stand but appeared to be inside someones living room...?
Anyway, I bought it and when I heard they shipped the stand and the block in one box @ 66lbs I freaked out!
Low and behold it arrived today, pristine! Since I another one that I consider new and unused, I have seen quite a few in person by now, but this one really seems to be new too? You judge!
OMG!!
Other than some handling scratches, I don't think this thing ever saw any action
, came with the craftsman pedestal and sharpening holder attachment...can I get a "You Suk"?
Sometimes I just luck out! If you remember the NOS block in the box that sold on ebay awhile back and it sold for $380 and me and Torqueman talked about it earlier in this thread and he posted some of the photos for reference to show what a new in the box block looked like.. Well that same seller had another block for sale and it was mounted to a stand but appeared to be inside someones living room...?
Anyway, I bought it and when I heard they shipped the stand and the block in one box @ 66lbs I freaked out! Low and behold it arrived today, pristine! Since I another one that I consider new and unused, I have seen quite a few in person by now, but this one really seems to be new too? You judge!OMG!!
Other than some handling scratches, I don't think this thing ever saw any action
, came with the craftsman pedestal and sharpening holder attachment...can I get a "You Suk"? Beater5liter
Well-known member
That thing is brand new...you ****!
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Yeah, that's still a virgen. LOL
Way to go, cajunfirehawk!!
Way to go, cajunfirehawk!!
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torqueman2002
Well-known member
Well, bagged, eBay's been berry, berry good to us.
I just sent off my restored 1/3-HP round top Block to it's new owner in KY.
My first eBay sale.
Now, I need to get the next Block ready. But, do you think the market is saturated for the 1-HP Big Boys?
bagged89s10
Well-known member
Well, bagged, eBay's been berry, berry good to us.
I just sent off my restored 1/3-HP round top Block to it's new owner in KY.
My first eBay sale.
Now, I need to get the next Block ready. But, do you think the market is saturated for the 1-HP Big Boys?
Not much out there for sale. I wish I bid on the other one that sold yesterday for a lot less.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I actually have another 1/3-HP m-397.19580 in the blasting box, 1/2 stripped of paint.
I have several of these good little guys, with various accessories - lamp, quench tray.
They don't get the big bucks, but they are fun to work on too.
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cajunfirehawk
Well-known member
OMG, I feel like I am at workLast edited by torqueman2002; Yesterday at 09:29 PM. Reason: Continuous improvement.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
OMG, I feel like I am at work
I find it takes less esplaning, than using errata correction.
Nice! But is that a 100w light bulb in a 60w max socket? Doesn't that cause this to happen?
Costco has LED 100W equivalent bulbs on sale for $5 for a 4 pack. I replaced my 60W equivalent LED on my 1HP with one and it's enough of a difference that it's worth posting.
I bet you most of the people who had something fly and hit the bulbs went out and bought the only 'heavy duty' light bulbs they could find, 100W meant for drop lights and that's how it came to be that every block grinder we find has 100W's in them.
cajunfirehawk
Well-known member
Happy Easter to all GF blockheads! If that's not your thing have a great weekend!
The bunny stopped here already...(thanks to Tonellin)
The basket this came in was its original Sears gray box
The bunny stopped here already...(thanks to Tonellin)
The basket this came in was its original Sears gray box
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Happy Easter to all GF blockheads! If that's not your thing have a great weekend!
The bunny stopped here already...(thanks to Tonellin)
The basket this came in was its original Sears gray box
That's a nice pick up !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Saaaweeet!
torqueman2002
Well-known member
1/2-HP Block grinder, posing as a BELSAW. $75, not mine.
https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/6088441318.html
https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/6088441318.html
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bubinga
Well-known member
cajunfirehawk, You're lucky
bubinga
Well-known member
It's gone already.1/2-HP Block grinder, posing as a BELSAW. $75, not mine.
https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/6088441318.html
is it really a block grinder?
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I can't swear to it, but I'd be surprised if they were not made by the same mfg.
The end frames, center band, and power switch just shout Block!
bubinga
Well-known member
Sure look like it.
Do you know who made those?
Do you know who made those?
Looks good! Glad it arrived safely.
Picked up a cheap friction slide box to mount my block grinders to. With the caster bottom it's a great base for the grinders
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bubinga
Well-known member
That box is alright, plus it doesn't have that stupid wanted space bin on e bottom.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Take a look at post #3 --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4000528#post4000528
I'm thinking, Paramount/Allegretti & Co. and/or Delco (GM).
Outlawmws
Well-known member
A lot of Belsaws were Block based; which speaks to the quality of these grinders, as Belsaw made equipment for daily and steady use..
bubinga
Well-known member
OK,
The best engineered, most durable, and desirable "Block Motor" grinders were made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co.
These grinders have the 397 or 257 serial number prefixes.
Pretty sure both of mine are 397 or 257
The best engineered, most durable, and desirable "Block Motor" grinders were made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co.
These grinders have the 397 or 257 serial number prefixes.
Pretty sure both of mine are 397 or 257
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bubinga
Well-known member
Thanks Torqueman
Allegretti & Co.
Sounds Italian.
My grandfather would have said, SEE That's a good one If it's from Italy.
Allegretti & Co.
Sounds Italian.
My grandfather would have said, SEE That's a good one If it's from Italy.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Where did you get the info Bub? (Correction: Dr. Block!) Here is what I have (so far) but open to correction if off (and some Conflicts...)
257 Allegretti & Co & Paramount; Paramount (now Poulan), who continued the Delco model Block Grinders
306 Belsaw Machinery Co.
397 Delco Products Corp. (Motors and grinders)
And Some conflicting info:
115 Packard Electric 1890 -1932 - from 32 on a division of General Motors (Division of General Motors - Purchased by Delco in 1932) 1890 -1932 - from 32 on a division of General Motors
In 1943, Sunlight Electric's small motor production was consolidated with Packard
115 1917-33 Sunlight - Sunlight Electrical Manufacturing Co. Purchased by Delco in 1932 Sunlight Sm Motor production consolidated w/Packard Electric (Division of General Motors) in 1943 - "In January 1940 the Sunlight Electrical operations were separated from Delco (Conflict) "It is believed that both Sunlight and Packard built motors and grinders for Sears"
257 Allegretti & Co & Paramount; Paramount (now Poulan), who continued the Delco model Block Grinders
306 Belsaw Machinery Co.
397 Delco Products Corp. (Motors and grinders)
And Some conflicting info:
115 Packard Electric 1890 -1932 - from 32 on a division of General Motors (Division of General Motors - Purchased by Delco in 1932) 1890 -1932 - from 32 on a division of General Motors
In 1943, Sunlight Electric's small motor production was consolidated with Packard
115 1917-33 Sunlight - Sunlight Electrical Manufacturing Co. Purchased by Delco in 1932 Sunlight Sm Motor production consolidated w/Packard Electric (Division of General Motors) in 1943 - "In January 1940 the Sunlight Electrical operations were separated from Delco (Conflict) "It is believed that both Sunlight and Packard built motors and grinders for Sears"
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They're not block grinders, but I came across these this afternoon while picking up an old woodworkers bench. I posted some other pictures in the Vintage Tool thread if you're interested in seeing my encounter. Anyone recognize the red one? I didn't see any label on it, but it sure was beefy.
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Does the stator body with the windings need to be grounded to the frame? I've replaced bearings and the motor rotates freely, but as soon as I turn it on it hums then trips the breaker. I've tested resistance of all the windings and it looks fine. The windings all have continuity to each other, but not the body.