let's see your craftsman block grinders

[jakemac]

You're dad had great taste.

 

[Fretters]

I bought this 1/2 HP 1964 commercial crown top bench grinder from the original owner tonight and he even handed me the manuals for it too. it still has the original wheels on it that he might have used only a handful of times over the 50 years because he is a wood worker.

You've dropped on well with that one. That looks practically mint.

 

[rallyhard]

You're dad had great taste.

Thanks, Mac

 

[Outlawmws]

Thanks Jake!

 

[torqueman2002]

Rally ...

That's the big Daddy of the Block style motor grinders. It's complete and has a family history!

Welcome to the forum.

You might enjoy reading more about these fine machines. If so, take a look at my replies in this thread for resources and rebuilds, including replacement labels.

 

[becker_atc]

Stopped in a pawn shop today and walked out with a 1/3 horse block grinder.

Sent via message in a bottle

 

[torqueman2002]

... anybody wire these little guys up to 220 and what are the benefits? more power or better efficiency or both or ??

Good question, I found this info.
"Roughly speaking, to operate a particular appliance requires a particular amount of POWER, which (at least for resistive loads) is current times voltage.
If you double the voltage, you draw half the current to achieve the same power.
The primary advantage of lower current is that you lose less power in the wires feeding current to the appliance (or you can use smaller, cheaper wires for the same power loss rating). On the other hand, the higher voltage is somewhat more dangerous if accidentally touched or if there is an accidental short circuit.
Some experienced electricians are relatively casual about touching 110 V circuits, but all respect 230 V. (This constitutes a "don't-try-this-at-home thing, though--it's quite possible to get a fatal shock or start a fire with 110 V!) Current trends are toward the use of even lower voltages (24 V, 12 V, 5 V, 3.3 V...) for any devices which don't draw much total power to increase safety. Power is rarely distributed at these lower voltages; rather it is converted from 110 V or 230 V by a transformer at the earliest opportunity. Even in North America, 220-240 V is commonly used in residential appliances for most high-power electrical appliances (ovens, furnaces, dryers, large motors, etc.) so that the supply current and supply wire size can be smaller. Higher power industrial applications often use 480 V or more. And, of course, transmission lines use progressively higher voltages as the distance and total power go up (22,000 V for local distribution to 1,000,000 V for long distance lines)."

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/182.html

 

[Alchymist]

anybody wire these little guys up to 220 and what are the benefits? more power or better efficiency or both or ??

Anything 1 hp or less pretty much isn't needed on 240V. Will run quite nicely on 120v 20 amp circuit, and one doesn't have to search for or implement a 240v circuit, thus keeping it portable. A 20A circuit will be #12 wire, and a 1 hp or less motor will not incur much in the way of line loss. Once you reach 1-1/2 HP and up, 240 becomes the better approach.

 

[drivesitfar]

I'll give it a little more thought and still trying to find a spot for it. I do have one potential spot for it that does have a 220 plug there where a compressor used to be that I don't have any longer.

I was doing some research into getting a 3 phase grinder and other shop tools and have wired a few houses so yes 220 is and can be an issue if not used correctly. since this little 1964 grinder still has the manual with the directions to change it to 220 I am leaning that direction.

i'm going to try and scan the manual and try to post the pages on this thread and also going to clean up the grinder a bit more and then take a few nice pictures to post of the label so you and others can use it if needed.

thanks for giving your input and still waiting to hear from anybody that has wired their block grinders for 220 to hear how the results are if that is done.

thanks Alchy I just saw your post after I posted mine

 

[Fretters]

With regards to the dangers of 110v vs 220V, they'll both give you a shock. Our standard voltage is 240V across here, so don't be worrying unnecessarily on that side of things. We survive. If it runs on either, it matters really not which you use. If it was something quite hungry on power, then using 220V would allow you to use thinner cable due to the halved current requirement, but for something quite small, go with either.

 

[Outlawmws]

Getting away from theoretical and to the practical, My shop is wired with 120V 12 Ga mostly 15A outlets, and where needed, some 20A outlets. I also have two different runs (on several breakers) for 240V one for running welders, my compressor (and SWMBO's dryer), and another for a 240V 30A circuit for 240 V power tools; One of my old grinders, (Taiwan and now dead; it never was a great grinder) my old DP, and my smaller portable compressor.

All of the smaller 120/240 tools were switched from 120 to 240, and it DID make a noticeable difference under heavy loads.

On my 120V welder, without a 20A outlet, it would overload the breaker regularly, the outlet itself was a resistance point ant would get hot and trip the breaker if I got going on long welds and short cool off periods. changed the outlet and that nonsense stopped. Again Heavy load and for heavy loads it gets into duty cycle. A light 120 V welder, even the best of them, is not intended for heavy duty cycles and you don't want to add ANYTHING to the resistive load. (I sure wish my small welder was 120/240...)

The drawbacks for a grinder to be on 240 is lack of portability, and even a 1HP grinder can benefit if you load it down a lot (wire wheels and buffing wheels load it pretty well). If you aren't loading it down heavy all the time, I'd stay with the 120V, BUT make sure you are on a 20 A circuit and using a 20A outlet (the ones that support both || and |- plugs)

All in all, in my situation and with having the forethought to wire for 240 for smaller loads, I prefer using 240V, but if you are not wired for it I would opt for a good 20A 120V circuit. (make sure you have at least 12G to support the load. 14 GA is not up to the job...)

YMMV

 

[softailgarage]

#3, 1963 397.19580 I saw the light & couldn't resist. I am bummed about the missing eye shield, hopefully I can find one. This one cost me $325.00 Found it on CL and about 1 hour away. The Seller met me 1/2 way in O.C.





And about that price, The guy wanted $55.00, but he also had this 1960 Snap On KR58B for $330.00. I offered him $350 for both, he accepted.





I think I have a tool problem, I was fairly normal until I started reading Garage Journal

 

[drivesitfar]

Softtail: I'm not sure about your math, but you have a couple great quality finds there for your garage or shop. oh and buy the way before you joined GJ can you please define "NORMAL" for some of use that would have done the same deal as you just did?

wish you luck on the eye shield and keep checking Ebay and Craigs and maybe a donor machine or maybe just the shield will pop up. By the way unless you find a pair of shields for your grinder you might measure the one you have because I think they come in different sizes. there is a $40 Craftsman block grinder 1/3 HP for sale on Seattle's craigs today, but those shields might be the smaller ones.

Outlaw: thanks again for your wisdom and i'll give I some more thought on rewiring the 1/2 HP to 220v.

 

[G20-Budo]

Ok, well drivesitfar strikes again.. He told me about CM Block grinders, and I could use one.. so there was one for sale here locally. It's a 1/3HP M/N: 397.19391. It has the wheel covers, spark shields and working light. I also got a wheel adjustment tool or something with it.

But, it does have a vibration when I turn it on. I haven't read this entire thread yet, but I'm sure you guys will know what would cause a grinder like this to vibrate. I got the grinder and a 10" piece of RR track for $40. I will need to replace the cable, looks like it was cut and repaired in two spots.

Here are some pics.

 

[drivesitfar]

G20: you didn't mention a vibration when you asked me about this one so hopefully your bench is not perfectly level and all you'll need to do is bolt it down to stop that. hopefully it wasn't dropped at some point in the last 20 some years and maybe bent a shaft. might also just need a good cleaning and as you read a few of the posts on this thread i'm sure the others have had a similar problem and have a fix for you.

now that little blue tool is for squaring up the wheel if you get a groove in it and not sure what they cost but probably $10 just for that.

nice find and glad you have one for your bench.

good luck and swipe a cord off of another tool either that you own or pick up at a garage sale to fix that one you have might be an easier fix.

 

[nine4gmc]

Sometimes the vibration is simple as a missing or damaged bushing in the stone wheel to fit the shaft.

 

[Outlawmws]

G20, take the wheels off and see if it vibrates (Probably won't). Then add one wheel at a time.

 

[G20-Budo]

Thanks for the inputs Outlawmws and nine4gmc. I removed both wheels and it purred like a kitten. It was the left wheel that was causing the vibration. I was planning to put a wire wheel on one side and leave a stone wheel on the other anyway.

Here are a few more pics I took of it after only brushing off a few decades of dust.

This is the offending wheel

So I'll need to pick up a wire wheel for it, and a new cord. The one that came with it works, but it's wrapped in electric tape in two places, no thanks I'll get a new one. I'd also like to wire brush it down and repaint it, and see about getting a new label made. There is just too much rust along the bottom to not repaint it, well IMO.

 

[zkling]

#3, 1963 397.19580 I saw the light & couldn't resist. I am bummed about the missing eye shield, hopefully I can find one. This one cost me $325.00 Found it on CL and about 1 hour away. The Seller met me 1/2 way in O.C.


And about that price, The guy wanted $55.00, but he also had this 1960 Snap On KR58B for $330.00. I offered him $350 for both, he accepted.


I think I have a tool problem, I was fairly normal until I started reading Garage Journal

Nice box with a custom drawer layout. Looks to be in good condition and straight.

 

[mrkstrk]

On the block grinders, if you have one that is missing the label. Is there a way of identifying the hp rating?

 

[zkling]

On the block grinders, if you have one that is missing the label. Is there a way of identifying the hp rating?

Eh, kinda I guess. They have differences like wheel size, guards, wiring differences, etc that can help to narrow it down.

 

[torqueman2002]

On the block grinders, if you have one that is missing the label. Is there a way of identifying the hp rating?

I have a CM block motor grinder that had a hideous paint job and no label.
Try looking here for ideas. --> http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Grinder

The HP & model number will depend upon the number of windings.

First, though - post some pictures, including the interior (bottom plate removed). That will help narrow down which style of block motor grinder it is.

Also; there's a lot of information on these grinders on OWWM.org sister site. ---> http://vintagemachinery.org/

 

[Alchymist]

The blue tool is for dressing the grinding wheels.

Oops - sorry for the late post. Got to the OP from the email notification; didn't realize there was another page........

 

[softailgarage]

Last week someone posted a link to a youtube video regarding "ring testing grinder stones" and I want to say thank you. I had no idea and never really thought about a cracked stone. The first thing I did when I got the grinder home was to perform the test. The stone failed, so I broke out the magnifying glass and sure as **** there it was, a tiny crack running from midway to the outer diameter, clean thru. I have enough problems without a chunk of stone in my gut, so THANK YOU

 

[drivesitfar]

Softtail: I think I remember WWIIjeep telling us about hanging a grinding wheel on a wire and hitting with a little tap with a ball peen or dead blow to hear it ring. if doesn't ring could cause an injury and even death or blow a hole out the roof or wall of your garage or shop.

glad to hear your reading saved you because if anybody would like to look it up on Google there are more than just the Darwin awards of deaths by using a grinder the wrong way or a faulty wheel because they can explode. also the hand grinder's wheels are really the bad ones to be careful with.

I've never hit a grinder's wheel before installing, but will now and probably will check the ones that i'm using too because only takes a few minutes.

 

[softailgarage]

Hey, what do you all think, good for parts?
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/4304365366.html

 

[nine4gmc]

All day long...

 

[67carl]

Hey, what do you all think, good for parts?
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/4304365366.html

Not sure what parts you need but if you buy it and don't need the eye shield or tool rest I would be interested in buying them from you...

 

[Outlawmws]

Hey, what do you all think, good for parts?
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/4304365366.html

You mean it's not in your garage already?

 

[jakemac]

If it runs well it's good for parts, use, or restoration (with another parts grinder). You could probably make more of a profit parting it out.

 

[softailgarage]

Called, still available, 1hr. 20min. drive one way, but, I need the eye shield.

 

[zkling]

Called, still available, 1hr. 20min. drive one way, but, I need the eye shield.

Wear the eye shield. AKA safety glasses or a face shield. While you are there I'd ask what happened to the missing pieces. Someone probably took off the entire assembly. Hopefully it was the current owner and stashed it somewhere.

 

[torqueman2002]

Softtail: I think I remember WWIIjeep telling us about hanging a grinding wheel on a wire and hitting with a little tap with a ball peen or dead blow to hear it ring. if doesn't ring could cause an injury and even death or blow a hole out the roof or wall of your garage or shop.

glad to hear your reading saved you because if anybody would like to look it up on Google there are more than just the Darwin awards of deaths by using a grinder the wrong way or a faulty wheel because they can explode. also the hand grinder's wheels are really the bad ones to be careful with.

I've never hit a grinder's wheel before installing, but will now and probably will check the ones that i'm using too because only takes a few minutes.

How to : Ring Test a Bench Grinder Wheel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NDtL4gisZYo

 

[JustinS]

Picked this one up for $6 today. Anyone know where to get a new switch?

Even came with the original manual!

 

[softailgarage]

^^^^^I should have one in a couple of hours, I'll PM you.

 

[nine4gmc]

$6 worth of YOU ****!!!

 

[bisley45]

^^^ aaayuuup^^^

 

[JustinS]

^^^^^I should have one in a couple of hours, I'll PM you.

Thanks

$6 worth of YOU ****!!!

^^^ aaayuuup^^^

Shoot, my first "you ****", awesome!

 

[G20-Budo]

Hell, I got the same 1/3hp grinder for $40 just on Sunday.. yeah you DO ****! Congrats on a great deal!

 

[drivesitfar]

now G20 be honest. with all your extras you paid about $6 for your grinder too and you deserve a you ****. RR tie, chainsaw, pruners, tools, etc, etc. etc......