let's see your craftsman block grinders

[torqueman2002]

Anybody near Indianapolis, who wants a rtop 1/3-HP Block m-397.19580?

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/for/4938864770.html

 

[bagged89s10]

Has anyone restored the name plate badge on these? Mine is a little rough.




~Veeps

 

[alpinewhite]

My 1/3 HP with stand from Craigslist for $50.

 

[Chef Juke]

I agree with what drivesit has posted above about the pictures AND the welcome to the GJ forum and the Block thread.

Please post pictures, I'd like to see what you have found.

I checked my 'library' of CM grinder labels and did not get a hit on '397.1951x'.

Sorry about the link. I had initially meant to have the image be inline, but because I had hit 'quick reply' I didn't see that option.

I've attached the image of the nameplate. More pics to come tomorrow.

Basically it looks like other similar 1/3 hp Block Grinders, rear has no "lip" for adding lamp fixture. Just haven't seen any other nameplates that match up with this one. Only reference to this number online is Sears Parts diagram and two out of date craigslist ads in hilton head.

-Juke

 

[jakemac]

Chef -
Welcome to the enabler's club .......... errr .... I mean, welcome to GJ.

Looking at the parts diagram from Sears, it looks like you may have found a previously unknown grinder of the type that we call a "pre-block". Your description that the "rear has no "lip" for adding lamp fixture" got me thinking.

My 1/4hp pre-block has the 115 prefix (Packard Electric) in the model number, yours has the 397 prefix (Paramount/Allegretti) that the later Block Grinders had (along with the 257 prefix). I wonder if yours was built after the vendor change, but before the design change from pre-block to block. These could be the transition years.

As for the date, the pre-blocks had a date code on the data plate like the motors of that time. You can see on your label a code of E-62 (or 61?) under the AMPS. That would mean that your grinder was made in 1962 (or 1961. It's hard to read under the paint in the picture).

What is the wheel diameter ? Is it a 6" wheel ?

Tourqeman may want as much info on your grinder as possible, so that he can add it to his database.

Plus - WE NEED MORE PICTURES !!!!!!


EDIT -
I found it in the 1962 Sears catalog on page 968. (clipping included)

 

[bczygan]

Here's a 1/3HP round top in Sterling Heights, MI for $40.

With quench tray, but looks to be missing eye shields.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4934194963.html

 

[harleybuilder]

Here's a 1/3HP round top in Sterling Heights, MI for $40.

With quench tray, but looks to be missing eye shields.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4934194963.html

That has already been sold, but the seller hasn't deleted the ad.

 

[torqueman2002]

Sorry about the link. I had initially meant to have the image be inline, but because I had hit 'quick reply' I didn't see that option.

I've attached the image of the nameplate. More pics to come tomorrow.

Basically it looks like other similar 1/3 hp Block Grinders, rear has no "lip" for adding lamp fixture. Just haven't seen any other nameplates that match up with this one. Only reference to this number online is Sears Parts diagram and two out of date craigslist ads in hilton head.

-Juke

This may be a bit late or out of order, as I've been on the hunt.

Here's what I've put together.

A 1/4-HP round top m-115.195001. Similar suffix, and 'flat' rear! This is taken from GJ, anyone own this stump?

Also from GJ, firemanast's 1/4-HP m-397.19501 Crown Top restore.

Maybe he will post-up a rear view.

 

[torqueman2002]

Has anyone restored the name plate badge on these? Mine is a little rough.
....
~Veeps

I'm not sure I've seen a metal tag/label restored. I would be very interested in having one done, or doing one.

Here's a post in this thread by Jack Olsen, with a link to a very good, professionally done plastic label.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4595412&postcount=4102

Please, let us know how you make out.

 

[torqueman2002]

My 1/3 HP
....

I am getting more and more keen on these plentiful, little, sturdy guys!

They get the job done most people need doing, with out risking life and limb like with the 3/4 and 1-HP big-boys!

 

[mtwaterguy]

I could probably help you out if those high hp ones are starting to make you nervous.

 

[firemanast]

Here you go torque.

 

[torqueman2002]

Ahhh, Saturday night. Catching up on THE thread, resting from working on my Blocks in the shop/garage.

My comments are in Blue.

Sorry about the link.
No worries.
I had initially meant to have the image be inline, but because I had hit 'quick reply' I didn't see that option.

I've attached the image of the nameplate. More pics to come tomorrow.
Looking forward, I/we like pictures!

Basically it looks like other similar 1/3 hp Block Grinders, rear has no "lip" for adding lamp fixture. Just haven't seen any other nameplates that match up with this one. Only reference to this number online is Sears Parts diagram and two out of date craigslist ads in hilton head.
Post them up, if you can. Have you used a photo hosting site, like Photobucket or Flicker? Free and easy to post [there are step-by-step directions somewhere on this forum].
-Juke

Chef -
Welcome to the enabler's club .......... errr .... I mean, welcome to GJ.

Looking at the parts diagram from Sears, it looks like you may have found a previously unknown grinder of the type that we call a "pre-block". Your description that the "rear has no "lip" for adding lamp fixture" got me thinking.

My 1/4hp pre-block has the 115 prefix (Packard Electric) in the model number, yours has the 397 prefix (Paramount/Allegretti) that the later Block Grinders had (along with the 257 prefix). I wonder if yours was built after the vendor change, but before the design change from pre-block to block. These could be the transition years.

As for the date, the pre-blocks had a date code on the data plate like the motors of that time. You can see on your label a code of E-62 (or 61?) under the AMPS. That would mean that your grinder was made in 1962 (or 1961. It's hard to read under the paint in the picture).

What is the wheel diameter ? Is it a 6" wheel ?

Tourqeman may want as much info on your grinder as possible, so that he can add it to his database.
Thanks, I captured the label and added it to my 'library' of pictures.

Now, that database you speak of is a project I'm hoping someone will take on. I don't really have one for Blocks other than the ones that have passed through my hands or that have yet to escape.
Plus - WE NEED MORE PICTURES !!!!!!


EDIT -
I found it in the 1962 Sears catalog on page 968. (clipping included)

Please let us [at least me!] know where it is, I haven't found the 1962 one.

Here's a 1/3HP round top in Sterling Heights, MI for $40.

With quench tray, but looks to be missing eye shields.
LH is there, only the tabs and bolt of the RH remain.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4934194963.html

That has already been sold, but the seller hasn't deleted the ad.
It's not my CL ad. But it is now my Block!
I've dressed the stones and it cleaned-up real nice. I got a 'pass' from the 'W/W list' members.
Oh, it has 3 of the 4 'rubber' feet too!

 

[torqueman2002]

Here you go torque.
....

Thanks fireman!

I'm saving a copy for myself.

I know I've said it before, or I should have, nice job!

How did you make the hole for the power cable strain relief? The strain reliefs I use need a 'double D' punch to keep them from twisting.

Nice job on the wheel guard repair, too.

 

[nine4gmc]

Nice example Fireman!

 

[jakemac]

Ahhh, Saturday night. Catching up on THE thread, resting from working on my Blocks in the shop/garage.

My comments are in Blue.

EDIT -
I found it in the 1962 Sears catalog on page 968. (clipping included)

Please let us [at least me!] know where it is, I haven't found the 1962 one.

The 1962 Sears catalog is found on a hideously high priced (at one time) CD set, that included all the Craftsman catalogs up 'til 2013, that was offered on ebay about a year or two ago. I don't think it's available anymore.

 

[sbosecker]

Man...
A lot happens on this thread in a week!
A week ago today I bought a Craftsman 397.19400 1/4-HP Block Grinder on a Baldor Pedestal and detailed the purchase in post # 4778 of this thread.
Today, taxes finished and brake job done on car son uses to get to college, I had time to look over the grinder more carefully.
I took the grinder off the pedestal to see if I could find a date of manufacture: None found. The more I piddled with this grinder the more impressed I was with its condition. The rubber mounting grommets were all there. The inside of the grinder looked brand new - I mean this thing's been sitting around basically unused for many years and no bugs have crawled inside it and made a nest of some sort? How is that possible?
I removed the wheel covers and found 36-Grit & 60-Grit Sears Craftsman 6-inch Grinding Wheels. The 60-Grit is virtually unused and the 36-Grit has minor wear.
Is there any way to date this Grinder?
Pictures follow.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[JackDiddly]

Hey all. Picked up a 1/3 h.p 397.19580 today. Original eye shields w/ shatterproof glass stickers somewhat still intact. However the quench tray and lamp 'knockouts' were never punched out, and there is no date stamp on the bottom pan (on either side of it) and no spark arrestors...

 

[torqueman2002]

Hi, see my comments in Blue.

Man...
A lot happens on this thread in a week!
You betcha.
A week ago today I bought a Craftsman 397.19400 1/4-HP Block Grinder on a Baldor Pedestal and detailed the purchase in post # 4778 of this thread.
Nice find.
What program do you use to make 'tiny' Links? I use 'Tiny URL', but it is a bit 'messier than yours'. -->http://tinyurl.com/Post-4778
Today, taxes finished and brake job done on car son uses to get to college, I had time to look over the grinder more carefully.
I took the grinder off the pedestal to see if I could find a date of manufacture: None found. The more I piddled with this grinder the more impressed I was with its condition. The rubber mounting grommets were all there. The inside of the grinder looked brand new - I mean this thing's been sitting around basically unused for many years and no bugs have crawled inside it and made a nest of some sort? How is that possible?
I removed the wheel covers and found 36-Grit & 60-Grit Sears Craftsman 6-inch Grinding Wheels. The 60-Grit is virtually unused and the 36-Grit has minor wear.
The stones look almost new, but they may have hidden damage. They are probably OK, but being that old I make it a practice to replace with new.
For more information, see 'Grinder Safety'at the bottom of post #1 in the link in my signature line "CM-Block-Grinders-Resources".
Is there any way to date this Grinder?
I have the same grinder model, the date is Dec 28, 1967. Some time around that date is my best guesstimate.
....
Best regards,

Scott
....

Hey all. Picked up a 1/3 h.p 397.19580 today. Original eye shields w/ shatterproof glass stickers somewhat still intact. However the quench tray and lamp 'knockouts' were never punched out, and there is no date stamp on the bottom pan (on either side of it) and no spark arrestors...
Nice find.
These are the dates I've seen on the same model Blocks:
Feb 24 67
Jun 8 1965
Feb 13 1968

 

[vertguy]

Added some rubber feet to my stand for block #1 along with setting up #2 with wire wheels. End caps and shields getting packed away for safe keeping. Now I just need to start a search for another stand.

 

[drivesitfar]

Vert: did you make those rubber feet or do tell where you bought them. or how you made them because they look pretty cool tool. have you run the grinder since putting them on and does it walk or stay put?

Fireman: i really like your color choice and the quality, but i have to ask how you got those metal shields so clean and the glass crystal clear. new glass and did you break the clips holding the old glass in or please do tell.

TM: not enough thanks can be said for all the help you so willingly give even if we tease you about owning every block in Michigan and the 10 surrounding states. i'm not sure how you missed the block on original stand for $30, but i guess you have to let one escape the heard once in a while. cheers and many thanks again and again.

BTW if you start buying vises every week just another warning because there are hundreds of different vises and models to choose from and buy. i'm trying to put a vintage vise company thread together and it is daunting how many old companies that made them. BEE CAREFUL because Mrs. T won't be able to hear a vise run which might be why she loves the blocks too. does she still go pick up one for you now and then??

 

[McBrownie]

I picked up a used Anderson 8" stainless steel wire wheel off of ebay. These go for around $90 new, so $20 was a great deal for a homeowner.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-03...852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4635851514

When I put it on my 3/4hp (the blockmeister for the regular readers), it vibrated all over the place. That grinder probably weighs a good 50 pounds with the belt grinder attachment on it. So, I broke out the lawn mower blade balancer. This is a picture of a different wire wheel that is well balanced:

View media item 49142
The Anderson wheel was probably tipped by 20 degrees. I started thinking wheel weights on car wheels and came up with an idea for a washer. The trick was fastening it. I used some heavier gauge stainless wire and threaded it through a hole in the "arbor plate". It ended up looking like this:

View media item 49143
It solved the vibration problem. I have to admit, I stood back when I first fired this up. I think it is a decent fix, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on the safety.

 

[vertguy]

For the feet, I used 2.5 inch Rubber Roller End Cap (think they are used on boat trailers). I found the idea for these when searching for some rubber feet for my compressor (3.5 inch). Not had a chance to really test them out yet, but the bigger ones worked great on the compressor. I also used a small piece of 1-1/2 inch PVC to fill the gap between the inside of the stand base and the feet.

Here's a link http://www.boattrailerparts.com/25-inch-Rubber-Roller-End-Cap-with-12-inch-Inner-Bore-_p_954.html

 

[drivesitfar]

McB: interesting fix to say the least. i don't think the washer is going anywhere soon with that nice wire work you did. i'm not exactly sure what the mower weight looks like so is it on the arbor now next to the wheel or did avoid using it once the washer was added?

I've heard double wheels are sometimes a good fix for a light wheel so keep your eye out for another $20 stainless one and see if that works. always probably a good idea to stand a bit to the side when grinding just in case.

since you do have another block grinder did you try that wheel on that other grinder first to see if maybe the wheel might work better on the other grinder? if it does maybe find a deburring wheel or just put the heavy stone back on the blockmeister.

nice out of the box thinking with the washer

 

[McBrownie]

McB: interesting fix to say the least. i don't think the washer is going anywhere soon with that nice wire work you did. i'm not exactly sure what the mower weight looks like so is it on the arbor now next to the wheel or did avoid using it once the washer was added?

since you do have another block grinder did you try that wheel on that other grinder first to see if maybe the wheel might work better on the other grinder? if it does maybe find a deburring wheel or just put the heavy stone back on the blockmeister.

Thanks Drives. The only weight is the washer. The other wire wheel that is in the picture is on the blade balancer runs smooth as silk on the same grinder. I was checking that ebay link and it says the the item is new. I didn't notice that when I bought mine because I assumed it was used and it was. That's ebay!

 

[xs650shawn]

Picked up this gem at the swap meet today. Needs a bit of clean up, and a new rest for the left side. And it runs. Not bad for $25.

 

[sbosecker]

What program do you use to make 'tiny' Links? I use 'Tiny URL', but it is a bit 'messier than yours'. .

In this particular case I clicked on the post number of my post. This brought the post up by itself in a new browser window. I highlighted and copied the resulting URL.

I started my message and when I wrote "...detailed the purchase in post # 4778 of this...", I clicked and highlighted "post # 4778". I then clicked on the "Add A Link" icon which opened a dialog box Titled: "Please enter the URL of your link:". I pasted the URL - that I had obtained when I highlighted and copied the URL of my post - into the dialog box and clicked "OK". That did it.

Many thanks for the safety concerns regarding the stones. I took them off the arbors and they "ring" nicely when tapped. Do you still think they are suspect despite this test?

Regarding the date on your grinder, I have to ask, did yours have a date stamp somewhere and, if so, where was it?

Best regards,

Scott

 

[Outlawmws]

What program do you use to make 'tiny' Links? I use 'Tiny URL', but it is a bit 'messier than yours'.

FYI Torqueman, I personally won't click on an unrecognizable link. if a shortener is used, I assume it is a potential link to malware... This is often the case if a person gets their accounts Hijacked. In the Groups I run we won't let the members post them at all..

 

[Outlawmws]

If they pass the ring test I'd use them, unless there are other possible issues visible. There is a reason guards and spark arresters are used...

 

[Outlawmws]

I picked up a used Anderson 8" stainless steel wire wheel off of ebay. These go for around $90 new, so $20 was a great deal for a homeowner.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-03...852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4635851514

When I put it on my 3/4hp (the blockmeister for the regular readers), it vibrated all over the place. That grinder probably weighs a good 50 pounds with the belt grinder attachment on it. So, I broke out the lawn mower blade balancer. This is a picture of a different wire wheel that is well balanced:

View media item 49142
The Anderson wheel was probably tipped by 20 degrees. I started thinking wheel weights on car wheels and came up with an idea for a washer. The trick was fastening it. I used some heavier gauge stainless wire and threaded it through a hole in the "arbor plate". It ended up looking like this:

View media item 49143
It solved the vibration problem. I have to admit, I stood back when I first fired this up. I think it is a decent fix, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on the safety.

I Vote no. you are spinning that wheel at 3400 RPM; I get hit with FINE wires that break off all the time, and they spear right through my layered shirts, (Tee, single layer shirt, and usually a flannel lined shirt...) Those wires weigh a fraction what your washer does, I can't imagine what a washer flying off and hitting me would do, but I'm certain it would be a trip to the Emergency Room...

The ONLY thing holding that washer on is ONE strand of wire. if it fails, its a high speed discus...

Wheel weights always have a lip or something to take the load and Centrifugal force actually helps keep them there; your washer has nothing...

 

[Outlawmws]

McB: Alternate solution:

Get a #10 (or so) screw, (socket head? and 2 nuts and a few washers. re-balance, and use THAT through the same hole.. Double nut so it won't vibrate off and when done use dykes to deform the outside threads to double lock the nuts on...

 

[Pupuhd]

Dido what Outlaw stated. I've had the wire strand penatrate my shirt and into my skin like an acupuncture needle. My first thought if you have a welder is to carefully spot weld points on either side of the metal wire wheel flange. Adding one at a time and checking balance after each. Just my thought.

I "see" said the blind man to the deaf man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

 

[firemanast]

Drives that is the original glass on the eye guards .

 

[McBrownie]

McB: Alternate solution:

Get a #10 (or so) screw, (socket head? and 2 nuts and a few washers. re-balance, and use THAT through the same hole.. Double nut so it won't vibrate off and when done use dykes to deform the outside threads to double lock the nuts on...

Thanks Outlaw and Pup,
The more I think about it, the less I like my solution too. I like the bolt idea. I'll fool around with that approach.

 

[jakemac]

I Vote no. .............

Dido what Outlaw stated. ..............

I agree. If you think those little wires hurt when they fly off, just wait until that washer lets go.

 

[zkling]

I Vote no. .........

Yea, that is pretty risky for 2 reasons. 1 the attachment method via a twisted wire and 2 the fact that only one side is attached allowing it to hinge up and catching something. At best you will **** your pants and or have a hole in the guard. At worst well you could have have an additional hole or two.

 

[drivesitfar]

McB: I tend to agree with the group on doing something different than the washer, but your idea of adding weight to the side of the wheel is sound. Outlaw's idea about the screw with double nuts and then ruin the threads sounds like an option. maybe just some large welds for added weight might work too, but since that could come flying off at you or your shop that might not be the best idea.

Outlaw: i think you were one of the members saying double wire wheels might help with making a single wheel that isn't spinning right? or maybe that was regarding the twisted wire wheels?

SB: i agree if it passed the ring test most of those old wheels have plenty of life left in them. i think it's the bigger wheels that tend to explode more often and really create the damage to users and roofs and walls in the shops. nice find BTW.

ALL: while we are talking about safety some of you have seen this thread, but if you can handle a little blood it has some merit on how you should actually use a grinder safely.

 

[alpinewhite]

Solder or spotweld some blobs for weights.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: sorry i forgot to attach the link to the grinder safety thread. again if you watch the video or read the thread and watch some of the Youtube videos you might see some blood. if anything it might give you a little respect like Outlaw mentioned that a spinning wheel at 1750 or 3450 RPM's can do.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263083&highlight=grinder+safety

 

[bagged89s10]

Added some rubber feet to my stand for block #1 along with setting up #2 with wire wheels. End caps and shields getting packed away for safe keeping. Now I just need to start a search for another stand.

Looks really nice. What color silver did you use? Do you you have pictures of how you attached the rubber feet with pvc?


~Veeps