let's see your craftsman block grinders

[torqueman2002]

Thanks guys.

I'm pretty new to this -- I'm going to be buffing motorcycle parts (mostly aluminum engine stuff). Is 1/4hp probably too weak? And does it matter the RPM? Someone told me that I should use a <1300RPM motor if I'm going to use a 12" buffing wheel, but I haven't read that anywhere else online.

Surprisingly, buffing requires more power than grinding, generally speaking. I can't find where I read that. "On the WEB, probably." LOL

TP Tools is a source I use for supplies and a 2-speed Baldor.
https://www.tptools.com/Buffing-and-Detailing.html

Also, Caswell Inc. has a lot of plating, polishing/buffing resources.
https://www.caswellplating.com/buffing-polishing.html

 

[jlevers]

Thanks for the links! The Baldor bench buffers are pretty far out of my price range, but it's good to know that I need some power.

 

[trijeff]

I don't know about the 12" wheel speed, but I can tell you that a 1/2hp block with the entire side assemblies removed and 8" buffing wheels has worked out fairly well for me. But even at 1/2hp you can bog it down of you really dig into something deep into the buffing wheel, so I wouldn't go any less than than.

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[bubinga]

You could get a belt driven arbor and a one half or 3 quarter hp motor with a 1/2 size pulley at the motor in relation to the pulley on the buffing Arbor. Correct me if I am wrong guys but would that not increase the torque where it would not bog down for him? Essentially doubling the torque of the motor? I'm pretty sure it works that way almost like being in first gear in a car at a given RPM . Be sure to fabricate some type of belt guard though be safe do not take chances with an open belt.

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[torqueman2002]

You could get a belt driven arbor and a one half or 3 quarter hp motor with a 1/2 size pulley at the motor in relation to the pulley on the buffing Arbor. Correct me if I am wrong guys but would that not increase the torque where it would not bog down for him? Essentially doubling the torque of the motor? I'm pretty sure it works that way almost like being in first gear in a car at a given RPM . Be sure to fabricate some type of belt guard though be safe do not take chances with an open belt.

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I agree.

He could have a 2:1 and 1:1 pulley set-up. That way he'd get 1800 rpm for plastics and 3600 rpm for metals and non-ferrous metals.

The used CL belt driven arbors are relatively cheap, not counting the motor. The key is to find one with wide spacing to allow good access for large parts.

 

[Bugman82773]

Hi... I just won this on auction tonight, so I don't have it in hand yet. I admit I'm a little overwhelmed by all of the posts on the Craftsman Block Grinders thread. I have tried to find out info on this grinder in the usual places (here, vintagemachinery.org, etc) but haven't been able to find this model number 397.19461 1/2 HP. It's missing the guard on the right side, but comes with a variable angle holder. Can any of you help me out with any information on this?

Thanks

 

[bubinga]

I agree.

He could have a 2:1 and 1:1 pulley set-up. That way he'd get 1800 rpm for plastics and 3600 rpm for metals and non-ferrous metals.

The used CL belt driven arbors are relatively cheap, not counting the motor. The key is to find one with wide spacing to allow good access for large parts.

TM. ... We're you thinking a 1800 RPM motor or or a 3600 RPM Motor ?


I like your idea using A 1725 / 1800 RPM Motor, but now let's consider, if you will, using a 1 horsepower motor , now we could go one to one ratio for 1800 RPMs at the arbor and a double the size pulley motor, to switch to your 3600 Arbor speed I think that would work out quite well. Keep in mind now at 3600 RPM at the arbor with a 1800 RPM Motor using a double size motor pulley, his torque will be less. But I think with a one HP motor he would be in good shape.
So essentially at 1800 RPM Arbor speed he would have one horsepower and at 3600 RPM Arbor speed,, he would have a half horsepower roughly. Of course with different size buffing wheels your surface feet per minute comes into play but that's a different formula but like the poster above stated if I recall correctly I think he used an 8 inch wheel I think that would be good.
And then of course there is always room for experimentation.



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[PacificaVette]

Hi... I just won this on auction tonight, so I don't have it in hand yet. I admit I'm a little overwhelmed by all of the posts on the Craftsman Block Grinders thread. I have tried to find out info on this grinder in the usual places (here, vintagemachinery.org, etc) but haven't been able to find this model number 397.19461 1/2 HP. It's missing the guard on the right side, but comes with a variable angle holder. Can any of you help me out with any information on this?

Thanks

That "variable angle holder" is actually a drill bit sharpening fixture. I think I have an instruction sheet for it. I can scan it and send it to you, if someone here doesn't beat me to it.

 

[jlevers]

As far as getting a belt driven arbor and setting it up with pulleys of various sizes goes, I don't see much on my local CL for belt driven arbors. Given that I'm on a pretty tight budget and I've seen a couple people do this, I was thinking I could possibly just get a motor from some decent sized appliance (swamp cooler, washing machine, etc) and use that. Otherwise, I think I'm going to end up with something around 1/3hp or less, just due to budget constraints.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread -- sorry about that!

 

[Bugman82773]

That "variable angle holder" is actually a drill bit sharpening fixture. I think I have an instruction sheet for it. I can scan it and send it to you, if someone here doesn't beat me to it.

Thanks! I'd appreciate that.

The auction description was pretty sparse for this. I ended up paying a little more than I normally would have liked to for it, but I figured it was a good first block grinder and I was without a grinder of any type right now.

So what's the deal with this model number? I haven't seen it ANYWHERE, which is really unusual. I feel like no matter how obscure a tool is, I'll inevitably find information on it. I'm not even certain of the size. I'm assuming it's a 6".

 

[lafester]

I'm betting on 7".

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[Outlawmws]

Your real issue is going to be the 12" wheel. Hhat will DOUBLE the SFPM (Surface feet per minute) of the wheel when you are talking about a grinder designed for 6' wheels...

Coupled with the extra distance from center, MUCH easier to bog the thing down.

Bottom line is that you need MORE than 2:1 reduction to get slower than the original speed of the motor (most are 34-3600 RPM)

I don't see you getting by with less that 1 HP...

 

[bubinga]

Your real issue is going to be the 12" wheel. Hhat will DOUBLE the SFPM (Surface feet per minute) of the wheel when you are talking about a grinder designed for 6' wheels...

Coupled with the extra distance from center, MUCH easier to bog the thing down.

Bottom line is that you need MORE than 2:1 reduction to get slower than the original speed of the motor (most are 34-3600 RPM)

I don't see you getting by with less that 1 HP...

Yeah, My Original post I had in mind a 3450 motor. But when TM said It with a 2 speed Pulley, that's when I said Lets consider A 1hp. At 1725 RPM (motor) For TM's Proposition with A 1:1 and 2:1 pulley ratio.
OP Do you really need a 12" wheel?
Depends on what he is buffing. 12" buffing wheels are not cheap either.
And the OP has some other things that need paid for 1st.
OP I cant Promise, but I do have an Arbor around here someplace, If I come across it, You could have it for shipping cost.
It's going to need the bearings changed, and a new belt.
Might get away with the old ones for a while.
Problem is I really don't know where the heck it is at this point, after moving a while back.
I'll try to take a quick look within the next few days.
But maybe he should consider a smaller wheel(s) than 12" I don't think 12" was "written in stone", I think he had just read that somewhere.

 

[torqueman2002]

Thanks! I'd appreciate that.

The auction description was pretty sparse for this. I ended up paying a little more than I normally would have liked to for it, but I figured it was a good first block grinder and I was without a grinder of any type right now.

So what's the deal with this model number? I haven't seen it ANYWHERE, which is really unusual. I feel like no matter how obscure a tool is, I'll inevitably find information on it. I'm not even certain of the size. I'm assuming it's a 6".

I have owned two Blocks with that model number. lafester wins the bet, they do come with 7" wheels/stones.

There is a free PDF copy of an owners manual for your model on the Vintage Machinery website (sister website to OWWM).
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4794

 

[torqueman2002]

TM. ... We're you thinking a 1800 RPM motor or or a 3600 RPM Motor ?


I like your idea using A 1725 / 1800 RPM Motor, but now let's consider, if you will, using a 1 horsepower motor , now we could go one to one ratio for 1800 RPMs at the arbor and a double the size pulley motor, to switch to your 3600 Arbor speed I think that would work out quite well. Keep in mind now at 3600 RPM at the arbor with a 1800 RPM Motor using a double size motor pulley, his torque will be less. But I think with a one HP motor he would be in good shape.
So essentially at 1800 RPM Arbor speed he would have one horsepower and at 3600 RPM Arbor speed,, he would have a half horsepower roughly. Of course with different size buffing wheels your surface feet per minute comes into play but that's a different formula but like the poster above stated if I recall correctly I think he used an 8 inch wheel I think that would be good.
And then of course there is always room for experimentation.



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Well, I was thinking 3600 RPM motor, I think they are more common/less expensive.

3/4 or 1 HP. The dual speed 8" Baldor is rated at 3/4 HP, and I've never stalled it.

2x pulley on arbor for 1/2 speed (1800) and 2x torque - for plastics, ...
1x pulley on arbor for 1:1 speed (3600) and less torque, for metals, ...

That's not to say I think less torque is needed for metal, it's just what I believe will happen with a pulley set up like the one I am suggesting.

I agree, 'playing' around until the optimum surface speed is achieved, would be needed.

 

[Bugman82773]

Hi Torqueman...

Thank you, but mine is a 397.19461 and I'm not finding it at Vintage Machinery. Is it possibly a variant of another model number?

 

[torqueman2002]

Hi Torqueman...

Thank you, but mine is a 397.19461 and I'm not finding it at Vintage Machinery. Is it possibly a variant of another model number?

Sorry, I mis-read the model number.

I don't, as it turns out, have any info. on that model number.

I wonder too, if your was/is a variation of another model, as you conjecture. Perhaps, a model that came with the drill sharpener attachment in a package?

 

[bubinga]

Well, I was thinking 3600 RPM motor, I think they are more common/less expensive.

3/4 or 1 HP. The dual speed 8" Baldor is rated at 3/4 HP, and I've never stalled it.

2x pulley on arbor for 1/2 speed (1800) and 2x torque - for plastics, ...
1x pulley on arbor for 1:1 speed (3600) and less torque, for metals, ...

That's not to say I think less torque is needed for metal, it's just what I believe will happen with a pulley set up like the one I am suggesting.

I agree, 'playing' around until the optimum surface speed is achieved, would be needed.

Cool! ................ That's what I had in mind (3450/3500 RPM Motor) in my initial reply. But I Forgot to mentioned it. Then I misinterpreted your post.

Yes, I agree, Cutting the ratio in Half, (if I'm saying that right, but you know what I mean) will double the torque.
I have proven it on My drill press, I only have a 1/4 hp motor on it, but the D/P has a center pulley. On the slowest setting, I have drilled right through steel with a 3/4" bit.
And, Yes, Lots of 3450/3600 motors around.
Makes me mad too........LOL.........sometimes, when I find A 3450/3600 cheap, and im looking for A 1725.................

 

[jlevers]

Your real issue is going to be the 12" wheel. Hhat will DOUBLE the SFPM (Surface feet per minute) of the wheel when you are talking about a grinder designed for 6' wheels...

Coupled with the extra distance from center, MUCH easier to bog the thing down.

Bottom line is that you need MORE than 2:1 reduction to get slower than the original speed of the motor (most are 34-3600 RPM)

I don't see you getting by with less that 1 HP...

Yeah, My Original post I had in mind a 3450 motor. But when TM said It with a 2 speed Pulley, that's when I said Lets consider A 1hp. At 1725 RPM (motor) For TM's Proposition with A 1:1 and 2:1 pulley ratio.
OP Do you really need a 12" wheel?
Depends on what he is buffing. 12" buffing wheels are not cheap either.
And the OP has some other things that need paid for 1st.
OP I cant Promise, but I do have an Arbor around here someplace, If I come across it, You could have it for shipping cost.
It's going to need the bearings changed, and a new belt.
Might get away with the old ones for a while.
Problem is I really don't know where the heck it is at this point, after moving a while back.
I'll try to take a quick look within the next few days.
But maybe he should consider a smaller wheel(s) than 12" I don't think 12" was "written in stone", I think he had just read that somewhere.

Thanks for the input guys! As you can tell, I don't know what I'm talking about here -- I definitely don't need a 12" wheel, it's just what was suggested to me.

Bubinga, that's a very generous offer! If you find it, I'll definitely take you up on that. I don't really know how this whole setup is going to work, and I'm going to be going back to school in a few weeks, but I'd really like to figure it out before then if possible (I have a '79 CX500 that's oxidizing badly in my parents' damp garage, and I want to get it cleaned up ASAP so that it doesn't get any worse).

Well, I was thinking 3600 RPM motor, I think they are more common/less expensive.

3/4 or 1 HP. The dual speed 8" Baldor is rated at 3/4 HP, and I've never stalled it.

2x pulley on arbor for 1/2 speed (1800) and 2x torque - for plastics, ...
1x pulley on arbor for 1:1 speed (3600) and less torque, for metals, ...

That's not to say I think less torque is needed for metal, it's just what I believe will happen with a pulley set up like the one I am suggesting.

I agree, 'playing' around until the optimum surface speed is achieved, would be needed.

So on an arbor, can I mount multiple pulleys, or do I just change them out when I want to use a different speed? Also, if you're talking about one of the Baldor grinder/buffers I see on the TP Tools website , I definitely won't be getting one of those, but I probably can find a 3/4hp 3600rpm motor for a more reasonable price...I'm seeing them on eBay new for ~$150, and vintage for ~$90.

Again, thanks for all the help!

 

[Outlawmws]

Check you local C list, used motors can be had cheap.

 

[torqueman2002]

....
So on an arbor, can I mount multiple pulleys, or do I just change them out when I want to use a different speed? .... Again, thanks for all the help!

I am thinking stepped pulleys. You'd move the belt to get the different speeds.

 

[bubinga]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, Stepped pulleys would be awesome, providing on the arbor, if enough room in the center is present. If not; You could mount a stepped pulley on the motor, and provide a sliding system to shift the motor over fore and aft. Or just a double pulley at the motor,
if you can find the proper sizes reasonably. Or even 2 single pulleys, and just shift your pulleys on the shaft. Of course with the later, you'd need a way to shift the motor forward and back.
But, probably for now, just find a usable speed, and go with that for now.
You can "tweak" it better later.
I' take a look around for that. I have SO MUCH stuff, It gets CRAZY!!

 

[bubinga]

Thanks for the input guys! As you can tell, I don't know what I'm talking about here -- I definitely don't need a 12" wheel, it's just what was suggested to me.

Bubinga, that's a very generous offer! If you find it, I'll definitely take you up on that. I don't really know how this whole setup is going to work, and I'm going to be going back to school in a few weeks, but I'd really like to figure it out before then if possible (I have a '79 CX500 that's oxidizing badly in my parents' damp garage, and I want to get it cleaned up ASAP so that it doesn't get any worse).



So on an arbor, can I mount multiple pulleys, or do I just change them out when I want to use a different speed? Also, if you're talking about one of the Baldor grinder/buffers I see on the TP Tools website , I definitely won't be getting one of those, but I probably can find a 3/4hp 3600rpm motor for a more reasonable price...I'm seeing them on eBay new for ~$150, and vintage for ~$90.

Again, thanks for all the help!

Check you local C list, used motors can be had cheap.

Awe, Yeah, NO, Please dont pay $100 to $150.00 on Ebay, Check local like outlaws said. Ive paid as little as $15.00 @ garage sales & flea markets.
Oh and facebook's marketplace is getting better than craiglist sometimes.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

Hi Torqueman...

Thank you, but mine is a 397.19461 and I'm not finding it at Vintage Machinery. Is it possibly a variant of another model number?

The only reference to that model number i can find...
https://www.buya.com/Model/Details/CRAFTSMAN-39719461/00000000c05f00000000000000000000
the 2nd
https://www.fix.com/models/grinder/craftsman/id929230/39719461/
and the last
https://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/39719461/0247/0721000.html
maybe a carry over or canadian model?

 

[cajunfirehawk]

Awe, Yeah, NO, Please dont pay $100 to $150.00 on Ebay, Check local like outlaws said. Ive paid as little as $15.00 @ garage sales & flea markets. [/B][/I]
Oh and facebook's marketplace is getting better than craiglist sometimes.

Or pay the $770 for the 1hp listed on there

 

[Bugman82773]

Thanks cajunfirehawk... so strange. I guess it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There's enough similarity between this model and a half dozen others that it shouldn't jam me up at all. I just need to find a replacement side cover.

 

[bubinga]

Thanks for the input guys! As you can tell, I don't know what I'm talking about here -- I definitely don't need a 12" wheel, it's just what was suggested to me.

Bubinga, that's a very generous offer! If you find it, I'll definitely take you up on that. I don't really know how this whole setup is going to work, and I'm going to be going back to school in a few weeks, but I'd really like to figure it out before then if possible (I have a '79 CX500 that's oxidizing badly in my parents' damp garage, and I want to get it cleaned up ASAP so that it doesn't get any worse).



So on an arbor, can I mount multiple pulleys, or do I just change them out when I want to use a different speed? Also, if you're talking about one of the Baldor grinder/buffers I see on the TP Tools website , I definitely won't be getting one of those, but I probably can find a 3/4hp 3600rpm motor for a more reasonable price...I'm seeing them on eBay new for ~$150, and vintage for ~$90.

Again, thanks for all the help!

Did You see this if it's not too Far

Free workbench with vise and belt driven grinder, https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/d/work-table/6773906819.html
Free, so best be fast

 

[Outlawmws]

It's Massachusetts! It CAN'T be that far!

 

[bubinga]

Did You see this if it's not too Far

It's Massachusetts! It CAN'T be that far! [emoji38]

It's gone.

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[LesserSon]

Torqueman & LesserSon - thanks for the replies. The screws Lesserson posted are the ones I'm looking for. They are supposed to correspond to the part #'s referenced above (marked #4 on the parts diagram) but the length that SearsPartsDirect lists is 1" and not 1/2" like the original hardware. I don't think it would matter as there is clearance, but I'd like to find the exact matches.

I'm going to the hardware store after work to take a look and see if I can find a suitable.

How did that work out?
I dumped a quart jar of salvaged similar screws and found ten that are close enough, if I needed them. They are 1/2”, thread 18tpi. The OEM screws seem to be between 16 and 18tpi - maybe 17tpi? They do hold in the clips, though they don’t seem quite as firm. These have an “S” instead of a scroll on the head, sit slightly more proud, and are brighter than the darker OEM’s.

 

[jonshonda]

Made an adapter plate to mount two blocks to the stand. One will have two wheels course and fine, and the other will have a wire wheel and a buffing wheel I think. Also made a base with locking swivel casters to move them around as needed.

20181217_130809[1] by Jon S, on Flickr

 

[LNKMK8]

So on an arbor, can I mount multiple pulleys, or do I just change them out when I want to use a different speed? Also, if you're talking about one of the Baldor grinder/buffers I see on the TP Tools website , I definitely won't be getting one of those, but I probably can find a 3/4hp 3600rpm motor for a more reasonable price...I'm seeing them on eBay new for ~$150, and vintage for ~$90.

Again, thanks for all the help!

I have a 1/3 HP block grinder that I am parting out with a 3580 rpm motor. Runs great, spins up smoothly. Send me a PM if you are interested. Not needing too much for it.

 

[bubinga]

Made an adapter plate to mount two blocks to the stand. One will have two wheels course and fine, and the other will have a wire wheel and a buffing wheel I think. Also made a base with locking swivel casters to move them around as needed.

20181217_130809[1] by Jon S, on Flickr

Nice..Clean Job!

 

[jlevers]

I have a 1/3 HP block grinder that I am parting out with a 3580 rpm motor. Runs great, spins up smoothly. Send me a PM if you are interested. Not needing too much for it.

Thanks for the offer -- I found a 1HP Craftsman motor on Facebook Marketplace for $30, but I appreciate it anyways.

 

[exmaxima1]

Here's the motor I just picked up -- runs great! 1HP, single phase, 3450rpm.

I think this is deviating quite away from the intent of the "Block" thread...

 

[jlevers]

You're right, my bad. I'll remove it.

 

[bubinga]

jlevers
Start A New Thread Please
I asked him to post the Pictures.

 

[RagTopTA]

Or pay the $770 for the 1hp listed on there

what in tarnation?!?! I can get 750 for my 1HP?!?!?!

 

[BlueBomber]

I picked up this grinder with drill and chisel sharpening accessories at a moving sale for $30. See my writeup on the Garage Sale thread here:

Commercial crowntop Craftsman 1/2 H.P. Model 397.19440, date code Jan 16 1974



Craftsman 9-6677 drill grinding attachment
Craftsman chisel sharpener attachment (may be incomplete)



I know the right side is missing the tool rest bracket. I wish I had thought to look for it at the sale.

 

[kenc184]

How funny, I come over to this thread and all the guys from the vise thread are here!

Anyhow, picking up my first cman block today, a 1/2hp, 441, looks to be in very nice shape but no quench tray. I have a few questions for the experts.

1) Why did cman go from 7" 1/2hp 441/440 to 6" 1/2hp 340
2) Why did they go from a perfectly good split phase 441 to a cap start split phase 440?


Now that you guys have bullied me into owning 10+ bench vises, I wonder where this will go?