Let's talk cra...toilets, powerflush

[joseywales]

I have Gerber toilets in the house now and they have the Sloan Flushmaster. Long story short, over 300 tanks have exploded and 14 folks have been injured. It's getting so you can't go to the bathroom in peace

Anyway, my Sloan units were recalled, so they sent me regulators. One works, but is still weeping water through an air hole? in the regulator. The other didn't help much and that tank is cracked in several places and leaks.

Even before I found out about the recall, the flush seemed harsh to me. It actually sprays you and the wall with every flush. Now, I suspect that these were installed because the morons who built this nightmare house didn't run the stack properly and there's no fixing that. in fact, no one has even been able to find the stack for the downstairs bathroom - at least not one that actually goes through the roof. Nice for a 30 year old house huh? My downstairs bathroom and master bedroom have the power assist. The general upstairs bathroom does not and it functions fine.

So, what is the best toilet to buy these days, with regard to a good flush? I talked to my plumber and without knowing my situation, he literally recommended the exact toilets I'm having problems with. That said, these Sloan units are from the 90s and from a bad run. He feels that the Sloan units are good to go. Still, I prefer not wash my legs with urine every time I flush, so should I avoid the power flush units all together? Are the newer Sloans good to go, with not as much pressure?

Any suggestions?

 

[dogdog]

Commercial use ones ? sorry I have only seen commercial toilets that have Sloan Flushmaster, Not sure how your toilet have killed 14 people and have not made the news.....

At home I have the American standard champion 4 and liking it, mine is just gollf ball flushing, I really wanted their VorMax line or similar line they have for the clean curve rim self cleaning + golf ball flushing, but won't fit my small bathroom... needed 30"

Keep in mind, the champion 4 unit have a very odd round trims... it looks small if you have a FAT bottom...

 

[joseywales]

You can google the Sloan lawsuit and find the details. I didn't say killed, I said injured. Not severely, although one guy's back got tore up a bit. It's like porcelain shrapnel. They sent me a regulator and a metal strap, to wrap around and screw to the bladder, in case it explodes.

Gerber is only available through installers, plumbers, etc.

I've read about the American Standard. Some say it will flush an eggplant, but not toilet paper or lose material. I'm guessing it's because there's now water coming down around the top of the bowl? I guess the rim-cleaning you mentioned.

 

[joseywales]

Here's an excerpt from the news article in 2014:

The pressurized tank can explode with enough force that it shatters the porcelain tank, according to the settlement document. The CPSC says 304 of the Flushmate units made between 1997 and 2008 have exploded during use, injuring 14 people. 2,330,600 Flushmate systems, including those installed in American Standard, Kohler and other brands of toilets, are subject to the CPSC’s recall. The company became aware of the Flushmate System defect as early as June 2000, but continued to sell the toilet without disclosing the defect or risk, the class action lawsuit says.

One of the victims, who was 26 when his toilet exploded in 2011, said his Flushmate system “exploded and severely cut my back,” according to the CPSC website. He went on to say “Had it been my grandmother our one of my nieces and nephews who happened to use the toilet that day, the consequences could have been severe. I required dozens of stitches for an extremely deep wound because of the exploding porcelain.”

https://www.thenationaltriallawyers.org/2014/02/18-million-settlement-flushmate-exploding-toilet/

 

[dogdog]

of the 3 months I have the champion4 I like it a lot... I originally wanted the Vormax one. but it won't fit my bathroom... So far no complains, flush all my golf balls down with ease, looks like I can retire my plunger... Installation is pretty simple costed me $20-ish.. including a gel pack to solidify the remaining old toilet water, a new hose, and one of those rubber toilet rings instead of wax....

 

[58Yeoman]

I've installed two Eljers in the last couple years. They have the elongated bowl, and sometimes, it will leave tp if it's at the front of the bowl. Other than that, they've been great. Got them at Menard's.

 

[Radix2]

Most new toilets out there are very good, no need for power flush anymore.

The inexpensive Glacier bay units from the box stores get great reviews. If you want to spend more, the Toto line is top notch - the Drake model is fairly inexpensive, the ultramax is excellent if you want fancier.

Of course there is a forum for this topic ... https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?forums/toilet-forum-discussions.3/

 

[jhelrey]

I'm very aware of your toilet issue as I work in commercial maintenance.

Usually we just replace the black pressure tank for $130 each. The newer ones seem to work a hell of a lot better than the older ones. The nice thing is you can buy just the tank assembly, not the whole thing and it takes about 10 minutes each to replace.

The OP is correct, there are recalls because they have exploded and sent shrapnel flying.

 

[joseywales]

Radix2, thanks for that link.

jhelrey, I just bought the regular gust to replace, but you have me thinking I might try to save one toilet, by using a new pressure tank. Do they spray your legs? I just can't stand that.

I have until September to seek reimbursement for anything I replace, but at this point, I just want working toilets that don't "wash" my shins when I flush. Nasty...

Lastly, I read somewhere that hard water and deposits cause more backups than low flow. Because they deposits gum up the waste line. We had hard water, but I've had a house water softener for years now, so maybe I no longer need the power?

 

[fnieto]

Damn, I have three of those exact Gerbers. Been using them since 1998 without a single problem. Having a septic system, I chose these toilets for there power flush feature and 1.5 gal /flush. I would use these again in a heartbeat.

 

[joseywales]

These were installed late 90s is my guess. We've used them for 15 years, but I always felt they were too powerful. A plumber friend said they are great units, they just had a bad run of them. The regulator either didn't help, or it was too little too later.

 

[mcbane]

You might try an antique hardware place to see if you can get an old style 7 gallon flush. Those work well.

As a last resort, look into a train/marine toilet that uses compressed air. Those can even work with short lengths of uphill drain line: http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/docs/Manual24563MicroflushGBH.pdf

 

[fsae0607]

American Standard Cadet 3. You just try and clog it

 

[fnieto]

So the pressure vessel in the three I have are round with stainless steel endcaps (heads). It looks like they weren't included in the recall. They have always flushed hard but thats what I was after to prevent double flushing solids adding water to the septic system.
I was incorrect in stating 1.5 gal/flush, they are 1.6 gal.
The A01 in the serial number is the series and not included in the recall. The 082097 preceding the A01 indicates the manufacture date of 08/20/97.

These round pressure tanks with SS heads are no longer available and have been replace by all plastic tank.

What are you getting on your water supply pressure? We're on a well with 55-65 psi no shin washing here. Now, some time back the shop toilet (same as the rest) would spray wildly, I used a curved toilet brush to clean the underside rim where the water expels from. It corrected the problem. I figured it must have been a partially (calcified) blocked orifice.

 

[dave*99]

Most new toilets out there are very good, no need for power flush anymore.

The inexpensive Glacier bay units from the box stores get great reviews. If you want to spend more, the Toto line is top notch - the Drake model is fairly inexpensive, the ultramax is excellent if you want fancier.

Of course there is a forum for this topic ... https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?forums/toilet-forum-discussions.3/

I second the vote for the Toto Drake. I have 4 of them and my son could clog up the grand canyon. We have never had a clog with the Toto Drakes

 

[JimH]

Well ****. I just realized that all 3 turlets in my house are on the recall list. They were installed in 2000 when I built the place and no issues until recently 1 not wanting to flush and running on.

 

[garagelogician]

I recently installed one of these:
http://www.caromausa.com/products/index/cu_products/109.php

I bought it online and had it shipped because there is not a good distributor close to me. Shipping was not cheap, but it is still one of the best purchases I have made for the house.

I tend to have very large and hard stools sometimes, and most other toilets cannot deal without plugging up. Since I installed this, I've been able to throw away the plunger in my master bath. It is a washdown design (no siphon) and the trapway is twice the size of most toilets.

It does require more frequent cleanings, but it is worth it to not have to deal with the plunger every day.

 

[DieselNut88]

The newer pressure tanks are fine. We have multiple in a commercial building. We did replace a tank on one and a regulator on another. That was probably 6 years ago. No problems since. I would look into a regular one. I am in the market for new toilets too. I have worked on every brand there is, but i still cannot decide which one to buy. Based on what i read here i might buy a Toto or the Champion4.

 

[joseywales]

Holy, uh, ****. I decided to try an experiment, to see if I really need powerflush. I removed the powerflush in the upstairs toilet and replaced it with regular guts. I push the handle to flush the toilet and almost nothing happens. A slight noise, water seeps out of the bowl, but you can hardly notice it. There is literally no draw at all. How the hell do builders get away with this ****???

I'm so pissed right now. I'm going to order two toilets and seek total reimbursement from Flushmate. This will be about $700 in toilets, if I install them myself. I have no idea what their payout is supposed to be, but I have a post card that says the claims are open until September. I was going to wait on the upstairs toilet, until we gut that room next year. But I'm going to just buy both toilets now and get it over with. This is BS, from both the builder and Sloan.

 

[gahrajmahal]

I have installed a variety of random home depot / lowes toilets, Glacier Bay being one of them. I agree with Radix2 that most current toilets flush good with no brand really standing out. My new criteria would be chair height, elongated bowl and easy to clean. So I am looking to replace our MB with a one piece. Our young grand kids have not had a problem with the higher style or elongated bowl.

 

[HoosierMark]

If you are replacing toilets, here is a tip. Get a plastic boot tray and when you remove the toilet sit it on it. Then you can slide it out of the bathroom without leaking water all over. A plastic pan will also work (think cat litter box). I have pulled more toilets then I care to remember and even when I use a shop vac to **** the water out of the bowl and tank, some stays in there, where it is hiding I do not know. You can also set the toilet in the tub or shower and turn it on it's back to drain. I do not disassemble them, two of us just carry them out and throw them in the dumpster.

 

[joseywales]

I have installed a variety of random home depot / lowes toilets, Glacier Bay being one of them. I agree with Radix2 that most current toilets flush good with no brand really standing out. My new criteria would be chair height, elongated bowl and easy to clean. So I am looking to replace our MB with a one piece. Our young grand kids have not had a problem with the higher style or elongated bowl.

Any advantage to one piece toilets?

 

[mires]

Holy, uh, ****. I decided to try an experiment, to see if I really need powerflush. I removed the powerflush in the upstairs toilet and replaced it with regular guts. I push the handle to flush the toilet and almost nothing happens. A slight noise, water seeps out of the bowl, but you can hardly notice it. There is literally no draw at all. How the hell do builders get away with this ****???

I'm so pissed right now. I'm going to order two toilets and seek total reimbursement from Flushmate. This will be about $700 in toilets, if I install them myself. I have no idea what their payout is supposed to be, but I have a post card that says the claims are open until September. I was going to wait on the upstairs toilet, until we gut that room next year. But I'm going to just buy both toilets now and get it over with. This is BS, from both the builder and Sloan.

You can't just throw a regular tank on a bowl designed for a pressure assisted tank. They are designed completely different and it will not work.

 

[Radix2]

Any advantage to one piece toilets?

1. Considered more stylish...

2. No tank to bowl seal to leak.

3. Shorter over tank.

No biggie really.

 

[joseywales]

You can't just throw a regular tank on a bowl designed for a pressure assisted tank. They are designed completely different and it will not work.

Not disputing, but to clarify, it's the same tank, I only changed the insides. Would that still not work correctly?

 

[mires]

Not disputing, but to clarify, it's the same tank, I only changed the insides. Would that still not work correctly?

Correct. The bowl isn't designed for a gravity flush. It has to be "forced" out by the pressure vessel. I've put in a lot of pressure assisted toilets and they are awesome. On the rare occasion that they do clog though, it is nearly impossible to auger it. Have to remove the damn thing and take it outside to "clean it out". Good times!

 

[jhelrey]

You can't just throw a regular tank on a bowl designed for a pressure assisted tank. They are designed completely different and it will not work.

Exactly what I was going to say! Gotta replace the whole toilet. Hence why we only replace the pressure tank. PS: You gotta have your old model # with when you buy a new one.

For the ones that have an active recall, they send out a steel bracket I believe. I don't think there is anything else involved and it just wraps around the tank.

 

[bobbyjean]

bring back the 3.5 gallon tank.....never met a deuce it couldn't flush

 

[joseywales]

Exactly what I was going to say! Gotta replace the whole toilet. Hence why we only replace the pressure tank. PS: You gotta have your old model # with when you buy a new one.

For the ones that have an active recall, they send out a steel bracket I believe. I don't think there is anything else involved and it just wraps around the tank.

They sent a bracket and an in-line regulator. I installed them on both toilets, but one porcelain tank cracked anyway and the other regulator started weeping water from the side. Total BS solution.

I intend to replace both toilets, but it sounds like I can’t test a standard flush, with the current bowl in place

 

[TheOtherChris]

I second the vote for the Toto Drake. I have 4 of them and my son could clog up the grand canyon. We have never had a clog with the Toto Drakes

Add me to that list.

The Toto Drake flushes well without splashing out the front AND the bowl stays clean with rarely a skid mark.