Let's talk fire safety

[Woods_Wanderer]

Over the last couple days I've been pulling together the parts for an oxy/acetylene rig and when I started planning the operational safety aspects I realized that beyond a token fire extinguisher, I've been severely overlooking fire prevention for my new-ish metalworking hobby.

For background I'm currently living in a home with an attached 2-car garage which I weld, cut (abrasives only so far), and grind in. Unfortunately since our driveway is very sloped it would be very difficult and unsafe to try and simply move my operations outside. Beyond making an effort to keep the floor clean and the main door open for ventilation I haven't been taking any serious precautions.

Starting right now that's going to change, starting with:
-moving all volatiles and flammable liquids to an outside storage cabinet
-removing any junk sitting on the floor
-placing as much as possible of our unrelated possessions into enclosed plastic bins or tubs to keep sparks out.
-clearing out any locations/stuff that can ignite or trap sparks
-getting some kind of screens to block grinding sparks, welding berries etc from going all over the garage.

what do YOU do for fire prevention?

 

[engineer2]

No torch set or welder at this time, but...
I keep a couple of fire extinguishers handy. Dry chemical and a CO2.
Keep work areas free of sawdust, leaves that blow in, and other ****. Clean up with a broom, shop vac and/or air hose. Amazing how much dust accumulates under shelves and workbenches.
Keep new rags in a closed metal container.
Rags wet with any solvents or oils are NEVER left laying around. Put them in a covered metal bin. Used rags go into the laundry regularly.
CO detector in the garage.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I try to stick around for an hour after any hot work.

 

[nateo]

I try to stick around for an hour after any hot work.

That's my low-tech go-to as well. I try to make sure I have at least half an hour of puttering / clean up after doing anything that makes sparks, then I do a lap of the shop sniffing and poking for any smoke or hot spots.

 

[cvairwerks]

Add some welding blankets to your arsenal.... Also, with hot or spark producing work, orient the flame or spark stream out the door if possible, or if not, to an area with nothing flammable in it.

 

[Copymutt]

Caught my shirt jacket on fire two weeks ago. It belonged to my decease father in law. Guess I’ll go back to sweating under my leathers.

 

[engineer2]

Caught my shirt jacket on fire two weeks ago.

I used to MIG weld in a factory. Cotton was notorious for smoldering for a long time, as in "why is my pants leg so warm?"

 

[APEowner]

I try to stick around for an hour after any hot work.

This is my policy as well and if I can't do that I at least go back and check after an hour. It paid off once. I found a fire smouldering behind a plastic bag covered, oil coated engine block stored a good 25' away from where I had been working.

 

[cvairwerks]

We had some hot work being done on one of our buildings long years ago. Welders pulled the appropriate permits from our inhouse fire and safety people...did everything right and by the book. Next afternoon our fire guys had to pull a full response and trigger a mutual aid call due to an inaccessible fire in the sound deadening in a wall 40 feet in the air. The guys had to hump everything up 5 stories to the roof of the building adjacent to it and then repel down and cut into the exterior wall while hanging on ropes. They finally had it opened up when the mutual aid aerial truck got there and in operation. The sound deadening material was cellulose that was packed in the walls in 1942.

 

[brownbagg]

i have caught my shop on fire twice, and it was that damn mig welder that did it, that and a rag and wd40

so no rags in shop anywhere and the wd40 in the gallon jug is elsewhere

 

[Throughfaith323]

Got me thinking for my garage build when wood prices come down.

-metal bin with top for any chemical type rags
-temp sensor for an alert and cameras to check when alert is sent

 

[DeeKay]

I hang out for at least an hour after any hot work as well.
I'd like to get a flammable storage cabinet too for all my nasty stuff. Probably a good idea for an attached garage.

Had a coworker loose his entire shop from a lightening strike, the heat got so intense anything in the shop that was aluminum was just a puddle on the ground by the time they put the fire out. The concrete pad was even ruined from the heat.
He said he had all of his gasoline, cleaners, acetone, etc. stored on a regular shelf, firefighters said they probably could have saved the building if all that stuff had been in a flammables cabinet.

 

[APEowner]

I also keep a squirt bottle full of water nearby when I'm welding or cutting. When you do set something on fire it's nice to have something in between trying to blow it out and hitting it with an extinguisher and the cleanup and need to recharge the extinguisher that follows.

 

[redrunner]

I have had the dreaded fire, it started from sparks hitting a tub about 1/4 full of parts cleaner. I would not wish that little fire on anyone. Everything was covered in smoke through out the entire building. Two dry chemical did not put it out just blew it up against the osb wall which started to burn, water put that out but the oily stuff floated on the waters still burning. Final called the wife in the house to bring down an aerosol fire extinguisher and that little 12 oz can put it out dead. I now have three of those aerosol fire extinguishers near my work bench and welders.

 

[redrunner]

When I repainted the place I put fire retardant in the paint this time. Cheap additive from the paint store and it supplies just a little bit of extra fire prevention.

 

[Kaizen]

I don’t think I’d be doing all of that in an attached. That smoldering spark lodged in just the right place scares me to death.
My garage has two big extinguishers not the little kitchen ones. One at each exit.
I’ve lit rags of acetone that I used to clean steel more then a few times. My oxy is one of my most dangerous tools. I keep it in a metal locker away from hazards.
My walls where I grind are plywood with. I gaps at floor.
Seriously consider a metal grinding and welding cabinet with vacuum so it’s mostly contained or figure out how to use side yard or driveway
Funny thing about fab work is it has calmed me way down around fires. Even with my Jacket burning on me I handled it. Fires will happen.


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[Showkey]

I hang out for at least an hour after any hot work as well.
I'd like to get a flammable storage cabinet too for all my nasty stuff. Probably a good idea for an attached garage.

Had a coworker loose his entire shop from a lightening strike, the heat got so intense anything in the shop that was aluminum was just a puddle on the ground by the time they put the fire out. The concrete pad was even ruined from the heat.
He said he had all of his gasoline, cleaners, acetone, etc. stored on a regular shelf, firefighters said they probably could have saved the building if all that stuff had been in a flammables cabinet.

Not buying that unless the fire was discovered in the first few minutes.
If the fire is discovered by a passer by or when smoke is leaking out.......the ship sailed and the garage/shop is gone.

The other wild card if they have to truck water to the fire ( no hydrant) it’s almost a given the fire fighting will be stop the spread to other structures.

Shop flammable liquids .......shop/garage with vehicles could easily have 40 gallons of gas so a couple of gallons of thinner and solvents is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I am the fire safety person on site, I follow the same hot work procedure at home, keep the area clean, 20 lb FE at each door plus I have a year round water hose. Always wait an hour after hot work. I plan on getting an FLIR camera which I need for work anyway, would be great to scan your shop with after doing any hot work. I have a area out side the garage that I do most grinding & welding so I try to avoid doing it in the garage when possible. I do think using a thermal camera will be a game changer at home & on the job as they can be used to scan for water & air leaks as well as fire. Used one from my BIL who is a fire chief to look at campers, you had to see the salesmans face when we explained what it detects, what was worse was how many new campers had moisture issues. After a trial period we will be adding this to our company HASP.
https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-pro-lt/

 

[jmk68618]

Currently in my garage I have 2 10lb abc fire extinguishers. Given that I am still in the building/renovation process I see them being more than necessary.

In its final iteration when I finish my garage I will have...2 10lb abc fire extinguishers. Here is how I see it: as a general rule I used to train (for years I was certified NFPA 10 extinguisher tech, safety coordinator) if you can't put out a fire with two fire extinguishers, you are probably trying to fight something more intense than you should.

Are you super worried about the lost of productivity/live-ability? Shoot for a complete extinguishing setup. Are you more in the mindset of the oh S*** response, get two 10 or 20 lb extinguishers and monthly ensure you are green-zoned.

Also, quick tip for those who want to train their brain for the SHTF moment. If your extinguisher doesn't spray, and you see you are in the redzone. Unscrew the extinguisher and pour the powder!

Just my heavily bourboned 2 cents.

 

[Jlarson]

I have sprinklers, and a ton of extinguishers since we're required to have them on a lot of sites so there's often several extras sitting. Everything is sheetrocked too. Good housekeeping habits go a long way as well, plus makes it easier to work anyway.



Never used an extinguisher in the shop, when you weld and cut for a long time you get used to what's gonna light off and either get rid of it before or get really good at smelling stuff cooking off while you're under hood, then you stop quick and toss whatever it is.

 

[mcbane]

Not buying that unless the fire was discovered in the first few minutes.

If the fire is discovered by a passer by or when smoke is leaking out.......the ship sailed and the garage/shop is gone.



The other wild card if they have to truck water to the fire ( no hydrant) it’s almost a given the fire fighting will be stop the spread to other structures.



Shop flammable liquids .......shop/garage with vehicles could easily have 40 gallons of gas so a couple of gallons of thinner and solvents is a drop in the bucket.

It is true most people have more gasoline on hand than solvents. But why presume someone would buy the flammables cabinet and then choose to store their 40 gallons of gasoline outside the cabinet?


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[BD1]

Five gallon bucket with water and a connected garden hose.
On the Jobsites we are required to cover floor drains, stop welding, and cutting, one hour prior to quitting time.


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[Prospecter]

Separate shed for small engines, stored fuel, etc. Detached shop with volatiles kept to a minimum. Rags and flammable waste go into a covered metal can stored outdoors and away from structures every night. Fire extinguishers.

 

[jkeyser14]

I used to MIG weld in a factory. Cotton was notorious for smoldering for a long time, as in "why is my pants leg so warm?"

Can confirm. Caught a frayed knee on my jeans on fire with some weld spatter once. Took me a minute to realize I was on fire.

 

[DeeKay]

Not buying that unless the fire was discovered in the first few minutes.
If the fire is discovered by a passer by or when smoke is leaking out.......the ship sailed and the garage/shop is gone.

The other wild card if they have to truck water to the fire ( no hydrant) it’s almost a given the fire fighting will be stop the spread to other structures.

Shop flammable liquids .......shop/garage with vehicles could easily have 40 gallons of gas so a couple of gallons of thinner and solvents is a drop in the bucket.

I'm no firefighter(maybe you are), but saying that stuff is a drop in the bucket makes no sense to me.

Anyway, The guy saw the building get hit, went in the building, saw a fire too big to handle with a fire extinguisher and called 911. FD got there pretty quick but it was already out of control.
An open shelf with gas cans, solvents etc is going to light up and spread a lot faster and easier than the gas in the tanks of cars parked in the garage, they don't actually explode like you see in the movies . Had all that stuff been stored in a cabinet, there might not have been much of a fire to fight in the first place.

That's the whole point of the flammables cabinet, to keep heat or any ignition source off of what's inside of it and contain any spills from what's inside of it. Hopefully preventing anything from getting out of control or lighting up in the first place.

 

[m32825]

Park vehicles so they will not be in the way of the fire truck.

 

[ZRX61]

Five gallon bucket with water

That, every single time the welder is used

 

[4miller1]

If a person can place a smoke detector in a way that it can be monitored. For example after work and the area is cleared out turn on the detector and place it in a likely spot. The smoke detector is on scene 24-7. Also this is a good reminder to check my extingushers, thanks.

 

[CraigStu]

Great thread. I have made some notes. One thing I can ad is, if you are thinking about a welder, maybe try Tig. In addition to being able to weld aluminum, and making beautiful welds, Tig has zero sparks.

 

[driftpin]

Currently in my garage I have 2 10lb abc fire extinguishers. Given that I am still in the building/renovation process I see them being more than necessary.

In its final iteration when I finish my garage I will have...2 10lb abc fire extinguishers. Here is how I see it: as a general rule I used to train (for years I was certified NFPA 10 extinguisher tech, safety coordinator) if you can't put out a fire with two fire extinguishers, you are probably trying to fight something more intense than you should.

Are you super worried about the lost of productivity/live-ability? Shoot for a complete extinguishing setup. Are you more in the mindset of the oh S*** response, get two 10 or 20 lb extinguishers and monthly ensure you are green-zoned.

Also, quick tip for those who want to train their brain for the SHTF moment. If your extinguisher doesn't spray, and you see you are in the redzone. Unscrew the extinguisher and pour the powder!

Just my heavily bourboned 2 cents.

All good suggestions. To put you on the "when do I monthly check that FE gauge?" mindset, first of the month. I also like the unscrew the extinguisher and pour-out the extinguishing agent, tip, just don't try it w/a CO2 extinguisher.

Here's a good sheet to use as a guide for hot work, and it also reminds you of the one-hour post-work fire watch under NFPA regulations.

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Training/Hot-work/HotWorkPermit.ashx

Forty-five+ years Florida-certified firefighter, retired, also firesafety inspector, fire service instructor, and paramedic/educator.

 

[Jackfre]

Fire is foremost in our minds here in the west. I had a Makita abrasive saw and it is just a shower of sparks. I bought the 14” Evolution metal chop saw and am doing better work due to the accuracy and cleanliness of cut. I gave the Makita away so I wouldn’t be tempted to use it again. The Evo produces sharp metal chips. I used a couple hinges and made a 3-wing sheet metal surround to contain those chips. It has been effective in containing the mess. Eye protection is a must.

 

[Iron Beaver]

Wyoming is pretty arid so there are a few things I do. I also plasma cut a ton outdoors in vegetation which throws huge quantities of large hot sparks long distances. What I do varies by the weather conditions:

Winter or snow on the ground:

Who cares. I can't set the nonexistent vegetation, frozen ground, or snow on fire

Spring day when the grass is green and there is moisture in the ground:

I'll spray down the immediate area with a garden hose because the sun dries stuff out quickly. I also keep the hose ready to use on hand. I've put out more small welding or plasma cutting fires than I can count with that hose. If I'm somewhere the hose can't reach I'll keep a 5 gallon bucket of water and/or 10 lb and 20lb fire extinguisher on hand. Just this morning I set a small pile of straw ablaze and had to dump my bucket of water on it.

Hot summer days with abundant dry vegetation:

First of all, I try to avoid doing hot work on days with extreme fire danger. I'm usually uncomfortable and it's very hard to be safe. If it is just dry, maybe I can get something done. If it's super dry and windy, no way. There is no job so urgent that it's worth that level of risk.

If I must weld or plasma cut on a bone-dry fairly calm day, I start by wetting everything within a 40' radius with a fire hose. Our pump supplies 45 GPM at 75 PSI so it wets stuff pretty quickly. Usually the area gets around 300 gallons. Then I turn off the fire hose and throttle up the pump all the way with the fire hose within a few seconds' reach. If at all possible someone else is on fire watch full time.

 

[DGersic]

It is true most people have more gasoline on hand than solvents. But why presume someone would buy the flammables cabinet and then choose to store their 40 gallons of gasoline outside the cabinet?


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Because emptying the gas tanks on the cars to park them in the garage is a pain in the ***?



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[Monza Harry]

I have had the dreaded fire, it started from sparks hitting a tub about 1/4 full of parts cleaner. I would not wish that little fire on anyone. Everything was covered in smoke through out the entire building. Two dry chemical did not put it out just blew it up against the osb wall which started to burn, water put that out but the oily stuff floated on the waters still burning. Final called the wife in the house to bring down an aerosol fire extinguisher and that little 12 oz can put it out dead. I now have three of those aerosol fire extinguishers near my work bench and welders.

If you can attach a link of these I am very interested! TIA!

When I repainted the place I put fire retardant in the paint this time. Cheap additive from the paint store and it supplies just a little bit of extra fire prevention.

This one too Please!

I also keep a squirt bottle full of water nearby when I'm welding or cutting. When you do set something on fire it's nice to have something in between trying to blow it out and hitting it with an extinguisher and the cleanup and need to recharge the extinguisher that follows.

This one is GOLDEN as almost nobody will refrain from using it on a fire! As [you also pointed out] cost and clean up is very, very minimal!
I am planning on installing a cement board 2' up my walls as I progress on the finishing steps, until then almost all torch work [electric or gas] and welding will be outdoors. I too am looking for smoke detectors [CO would be an excellent add on] that I can tie in to the alarm system until then even with ordinary ones there is a chance someone may hear them, seconds count.
OP Great topic to remind us all of what we have to lose! Thank You! Harry

 

[DGersic]

If you can attach a link of these I am very interested! TIA!

I’m guessing he means something like these

https://www.lowes.com/pd/First-Alert-Fire-Extinguishing-Spray/1000990428




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[nadogail]

One of the decisions i regret is giving up my Pump Can fire extinguisher.

 

[Monza Harry]

One of the decisions i regret is giving up my Pump Can fire extinguisher.

That makes me think a "funnel top sprayer" wouldn't be a bad idea either, adjustable spray pattern and 2 gallon + sizes available and allows application from some distance.
DGersic Thank You for the link, if we ever get out of lock down I'll wander the aisles at Lowes here and see what they have for Canada!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have had the dreaded fire, it started from sparks hitting a tub about 1/4 full of parts cleaner. I would not wish that little fire on anyone. Everything was covered in smoke through out the entire building. Two dry chemical did not put it out just blew it up against the osb wall which started to burn, water put that out but the oily stuff floated on the waters still burning. Einal called the wife in the house to bring down an aerosol fire extinguisher and that little 12 oz can put it out dead. I now have three of those aerosol fire extinguishers near my work bench and welders.

This is common to an untrained person using an extinguisher. You don't point the hose directly into the container of burning liquid, you need to sweep across the top of it.

If you have a parts washer or tub you use to clean items and use a flammable solvent, it needs to be covered when not in use.

 

[cvairwerks]

Get one of the 2.5 gallon water extinguishers to substitute for the old pump can units. It's just water and air pressure and easy to recharge after use. Just remember it's only a Class A unit.

 

[DeeKay]

Get one of the 2.5 gallon water extinguishers to substitute for the old pump can units. It's just water and air pressure and easy to recharge after use. Just remember it's only a Class A unit.

These are super nice if you don't have a hose/water near by. Put out a few forklift fires and dock leveler fires at the box factory I used to work at, way nicer than having to clean up fire extinguisher dust.

Just make sure you keep some antifreeze in them or store somewhere they won't freeze, they're pretty useless as a block of ice