Lets talk levels

[BrokeEF]

I currently have 3 levels, a 4 foot, a 2 foot, and a 6"torpedo. All three are Empire, with the 6" being one of the nicer line from them. I am 99% sure that none of them are true. I know none of them will read the same, but have no idea if any of them are actually correct. So how can I validate a level is actually level. What are good levels to look at for replacement of the ones I have? I was planning on getting the higher end Empire's but now I am not so sure. Lets hear what all the experts have to say.

Sean

P.S. All three of mine have fallen over and/or been dropped from various heights. They may have started off true, but I don't think they are now.

 

[Musicinabottle]

All of my levels up to 6 foot 6 inch are Stabila and I have had excellent success with a Levelution 4 foot level. To check, place it on something level or plumb and then flip it 180. If you get a different reading, it's done.

 

[KnurledNut]

Vertical: Put it on a flat surface. Check. Note reading. Flip 180 SIDE TO SIDE. Check same vial for same reading.

Horizontal: Put it on a flat surface. Check. Note reading. Flip 180 END FOR END. Check same vial for same reading.

Then go buy a Stabila.

 

[GRB]

I've got about a dozen Stabilas. Some are 30 years old.

 

[BrokeEF]

OK, so order up some Stabilas... Got it! I am sure they make different models (besides sizes), what models are the go to? Or does it not even really matter with them?

Sean

 

[MrDeerHunter]

OK, so order up some Stabilas... Got it! I am sure they make different models (besides sizes), what models are the go to? Or does it not even really matter with them?

Sean

Which empire levels? They do make very accurate levels. Check with a plumb line. I have 4 myself that I use for cabinet installs and never had a customer complain. The cricks that I used for masonry are solid levels too. The amount of abuse the levels have seen will affect accuracy. Empire is not a bad brand. Keep the levels. My true blues have never let me down and yours shouldn't either. What are you leveling up? Abuse is typically the catalyst for an untrue level.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[signcrafter]

As far as I know stabila doesn't have a "cheap" and "good" line. All their levels are good and they just make different ones for different applications. Like for masonry or magnetic for steel studs or extendable for top plates on tall walls, etc. I have probably 7-8 stabila levels of all sizes and kinds and some are 20 or so years old and have taken a beating being dropped or bounced around in the back of the truck or whatever. I can stack all of them on top of each other starting with my 8' and ending with my torpedo and all the bubbles are right on dead accurate.

 

[PugetDude]

Stabila levels are like SnapOn Tools.
Well-made, over-hyped and over-priced.

 

[BrokeEF]

Which empire levels? They do make very accurate levels. Check with a plumb line. I have 4 myself that I use for cabinet installs and never had a customer complain. The cricks that I used for masonry are solid levels too. The amount of abuse the levels have seen will affect accuracy. Empire is not a bad brand. Keep the levels. My true blues have never let me down and yours shouldn't either. What are you leveling up? Abuse is typically the catalyst for an untrue level.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The Garage Journal mobile app

I am not 100% sure which ones I have. The torpedo level is a true blue. They are all metal, the 2' and 4' are just I-beam style. I know that if I put all 3 on the same thing I will get different readings from all 3, both horizontal and vertical. Like I said, they have fallen over and been dropped. They are just used around the house though, so they haven't had THAT rough of a life. I wouldn't say that Empire is a bad brand, I am just looking for suggestions and ways to check them. Never thought about flipping it over and checking side to side. Makes a ton of sense, just hadn't thought of it.

Now that my garage remodel project is done, whatever levels I end up will have a home in the garage. That should really cut down on people knocking them over or dropping them. That is why I am looking at options for good levels going forward. Nothing worse than a precision device that isnt precise!

Sean

 

[MrDeerHunter]

I am not 100% sure which ones I have. The torpedo level is a true blue. They are all metal, the 2' and 4' are just I-beam style. I know that if I put all 3 on the same thing I will get different readings from all 3, both horizontal and vertical. Like I said, they have fallen over and been dropped. They are just used around the house though, so they haven't had THAT rough of a life. I wouldn't say that Empire is a bad brand, I am just looking for suggestions and ways to check them. Never thought about flipping it over and checking side to side. Makes a ton of sense, just hadn't thought of it.

Now that my garage remodel project is done, whatever levels I end up will have a home in the garage. That should really cut down on people knocking them over or dropping them. That is why I am looking at options for good levels going forward. Nothing worse than a precision device that isnt precise!

Sean

Get a hold of Empire and let them know your findings. Take pictures and have them queued up to send right away. I broke a torpedo level due to my own fault many years ago and called them. They sent me a new one.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[george4]

Vertical: Put it on a flat surface. Check. Note reading. Flip 180 SIDE TO SIDE. Check same vial for same reading.

Horizontal: Put it on a flat surface. Check. Note reading. Flip 180 END FOR END. Check same vial for same reading.

Then go buy a Stabila.

reasonable advice.

 

[rlitman]

...They are all metal, the 2' and 4' are just I-beam style...

I-beam levels from 30 years ago weighed a ton, but were quite sturdy. Today's I-beam levels are foil thin and twist like toys. Stick with box beams.

 

[snickers muncher]

The last level I picked up was by Kapro and i'm pleased. They're made in Israel.

 

[GRB]

OK, so order up some Stabilas... Got it! I am sure they make different models (besides sizes), what models are the go to? Or does it not even really matter with them?

Sean

70 & 80 series is nice homeowner and normal "pro"
96M are magnetic.
196 is the normal pro line and is basically all what I have.
R300 series is the new D shape that I have played with a bit.

Last three are the only ones that have a lifetime warranty, I believe.

There are some variations like lighted versions of some.

We use their electronic ones for certain functions like checking slope on sidewalks, driveways, etc.

There is some name recognition but think they are worth the money, which is hard to say with Snap-On. Even though I've spent a fortune with Snap-On in the distant past.

There have been some others like Sola that are wonderful also.

 

[matt_i]

I use a 6" torpedo Stablia with the rare earth magnets a lot.

Next up would be a 24" rectangle cross-section.

I have an old 6 foot level (not Stabila) that my Dad gave to me but its off and can't be trusted for sensitive work. It doubles as a nice straightedge because of its I-beam profile though.

If you build a shop, having a rotary laser level is well worth it.

I have a 24" Johnson where I work and it is marked as made in Austria. It is a very good tool.

Treat levels with utmost respect in handling them, in my opinion its the most sensitive tool outside of machinist's precision measurement tools and deserve due care.

If you're setting landscape boulders and flagstones go get a plastic body at the local big box. Plenty good for that class of service.

 

[Musicinabottle]

reasonable advice.

Someone else said that too. Now who could that be...... hmmmmm.

 

[doublearon98]

Need to keep in mind that there is a large difference in reading while the 6" cover a whole lot smaller area than the 6'. Do as others have stated by placing the level on a table and then flipping it over to compare.

I've got 3 empires and they are all accurate.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

The cricks that I used for masonry are solid levels too.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The Garage Journal mobile app

For masonry I prefer wood levels as well and have been a lifetime user of cricks

My levels get dropped all the time and I have yet to knock out the accuracy of them. Wood might be a little better in that aspect. Or maybe I am just lucky.

I have a couple stabilas as well for use around home




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[countrybumpkin]

I recently picked up a bosch self leveling laser level. It has paid for itself already and has made many jobs much easier.

 

[dutchgray]

I had an uncle who dropped a 4' Stabila down 10 lifts of scaffold, it was still accurate after.

 

[KnurledNut]

Stabila levels are like SnapOn Tools.
Well-made, over-hyped and over-priced.

At Amazon prices, the three levels he has would run around $90.
(And the accuracy of the OPs with limited use is questionable.)

A comparable low end Stabila set can be had for $130 right now.

Im not a Stabila fanboy.

But i can guarantee you that after more than 15 years of using them, dropping some two stories, minor drops everyday, getting knocked off scaffold, extreme heat/cold, tamping dirt and concrete, prying with, bouncing around in a trailer or truck from job to job, using as a rip guide, straightedge, and beating against boards to position them.....and they keep on keeping on.....the hype is well founded and the price is well worth it.

Just dont get a torch too close to a Stabila vial. Ask me how i know. ;-)

 

[850xpeps]

I’ve got stabile and love them. I recently purchased a new jam set to replace my empire. I buy the jam set with the magnets because it will grab hinges while I set a door.

I also bought a new 4’ R beam level. For durability. It’s a little bulky but love the 3 edges meant to scribe down. And the removable ends. I know they are pricy but I was replacing my set from 16 yrs ago that had seen some sh!t. The 4’ had a slight bow because it was box frame and nothing on the top edge in the middle. Commercial construction used almost everyday.

 

[tarbellb]

Empire are fine for the average DIY guy

Stabila and Sola are great levels

All levels can get whacked out of calibration, period.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I dropped my 6" empire about 40 feet off a stud block onto concrete todau and it's still true

 

[Brosieden]

I've owned Stanley, Empire, Mastercraft, Johnson, and Stabila, and used lots of others. I like Stabila's R-Beam levels best. And I find magnetic ones annoying, even when hanging doors.

If I was on a budget, I've had good luck with Johnson.

 

[matthew]

I just bought an Irwin 24". A nice little feature it has is a little mirror in a machined pocket, so that when you are checking for plumb you can look at it either face-on or from the top side of the level. It also has continuous edges on both front and back sides, so it's easy to draw lines across either way.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I also had a Swanson that had rare earth magnets and a V groove for setting on conduit and pipe, it was sturdy billet and was pretty nice

 

[Git]

Stabila 48" Digital. Buy once, cry once

 

[On-Wheel]

Crick it is! In masonry building leads you have LPS level,plum and straight edge.Leveling I beat the level with rubber handel of estwing hammer.Dropped them tothers wear out.
Just seen a new 48" crick at sunbelt,$125.
24" $76

 

[Stuart in MN]

Before just rushing out and spending money, check your existing levels using the method posted above. They may be okay, and if not you may be able to rotate the bubbles to bring them into alignment.

 

[MushCreek]

My old Pratt & Whitney precision level is accurate to .0005" over a foot. It's adjustable so it can be re-calibrated. Pretty much worthless for carpentry, though. I've never had a 'good' carpentry level. I bought a cheap 6 footer at HF, and the juice evaporated out of one of the vials. I use it as a straight edge now. I have a couple of other beaters that are close enough, but not great.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Typical GJ fashion recommending 300 dollar levels for a DIY home gamer only using occasionally ��

 

[850xpeps]

Typical GJ fashion recommending 300 dollar levels for a DIY home gamer only using occasionally

I buy a quality level because I want quality. I buy quality tools regardless of how much it will be used. If you don’t then so be it. Don’t get your ******* in a knot over it.

 

[acer66]

I have Stabila levels for longer then I remember and use them frequently outside their intended purpose and they are holding up just fine.

 

[readhead]

I started 40 years ago buying MQ and switched to Levelotuion. Except torpedo levels I don't buy a level I can't adjust. I had to teach every guy I hired how to check a level. Stabilla makes a quality piece but what happens when it does go out, and they do. Mail it back and wait three weeks?

The main take away here is, you need to know how to check your level no matter how much you spent to know if it is telling you the truth.

 

[rlitman]

...Stabilla makes a quality piece but what happens when it does go out, and they do...

They don't. And that's the part you're missing. A good carpentry (we're not talking about a Starrett Master Precision with hand scraped cast iron surfaces here) level should not ever need adjustment. If it needs to be adjusted, that just means that its design is lacking.

 

[PugetDude]

This thread makes me think about the old fart who taught me to do finish carpentry. He was famous for asking new guys "What's the best use for an-out-of whack level?". His answer was " a ******' concrete screed!"

Fond memories.

 

[Mr. T]

we're not talking about a Starrett Master Precision

Believe it or not, the Starrett 199 is a little too “rough” for certain things. I have a level good for .0001” per 10”. If you hold it for too long the reading will change because of expansion from the heat of your hand.

I use it on a four foot straight edge that is parrellel within .0001” per yard.

You have to let both “acclimate”, then set the level (using the 180 turn method) before use.

Of course I’m leveling machine bases with them.

That might be slightly overkill for masonry or carpentry work. So, one man’s level is another’s useless long stick depending on the application.

 

[DieselNut88]

I have a 8' empire that was of 1/2" when checking 180 degrees apart. I contacted empire and sent them pictures. They sent me not 1 new level but 2! They did not even want the old one back. That is great customer service.

 

[readhead]

Rlitman, if Stabilla levels are perfect then why do they offer a calibration service?