Leveling Walls???

[Lunarist]

Hey guys,

I'm in the process of framing in my new workshop when I ran into an issue that I need a little help with.

I have a slab with one course of block around the perimeter in which the walls sit on.

Basically from the ground up my walls are slab, block, sill plate, bottom plate, studs, top plate, double top plate.

I have found that I am a 1/2" out of level from one side of the building to the other. I believe either the slab or block is out.

What do you guys think I should do to level the walls? Should I shim between the sill and bottom plate or between the top plate and double top plate? I think it would be easier to shim between the top plate and double top plate so they are level rather than shim between the sill and bottom. I just have not heard of anyone doing it that way.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Leoruiz]

If it's more than 20 feet across I wouldn't worry about it.
Get a plastic tube and fill it with water and food color.
This will show you where the "problem" is.
Google "water levels". Maybe Youtube it too.

 

[Lunarist]

I know the walls were all built square and with the same size studs. Unfortunately it's the block or slab or an issue with the guy I hired. It's roughly 600 square feet and I'd like to start with a level plane before adding the rafters.

Maybe I'm over-thinking like I most always do!

Thanks,

Paul

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Slabs are rarely ever absolutely level.
The mason, if he did "his" work correctly should be level.

Knowing the correct procedure to address this issue would have saved you the headache. Framers will pull a level chalk line and mark each stud where it will stand- insuring a level wall. Getting to that point would require a transit. You can use a water level as mentioned about, but I much prefer a transit level.

Shimming is never a "good" alternative, but if you use the right material in the right place it could be satisfactory. I prefer using steel between the sill seal and the bottom sill plate (you did use sill seal didn't you?), its not going to compress and can be secured well with the sill anchors/bolts.

 

[buddyboy]

is it out 1/2" all the way across?

if so- rip some 1/2" plywood down to 3 1/2" strips and put it on top of your top plates before you set the rafters

the rafters on the gable ends will have a gap shaped like a wedge, that you can clean up with sheathing.

nothings perfect, just need to make it look that way

 

[Falcon67]

In my experience working and remodeling the old houses we've had and with the few new buildings we've owned/built I say - "whatever". My shop is out 4~6" out NW corner to SE corner. You can't tell and neither can the wood used to build the thing.

 

[matt_i]

I would prefer the way you say, between top plate and double top plate. Easier to run a long strip with no fear of moisture from below.

I would prefer a rotating laser level over a water level (with deference to those who have used the time honored method).

 

[Lunarist]

Thanks for the reply guys. I'll have to double check to make sure it's 1/2" out all the way then I can either rip strips of plywood and put them on top of the double top plate or shim with steel between the sill sealer and sill plate. I did use sill sealer

Where would you get steel shims from?

Thanks,

 

[kbs2244]

You are out 1/2 inch at the top of the wall?
Just keep on going.
The rain will never notice.
And neither will anyone from the street.

 

[Lunarist]

Yes you are correct. Basically running a laser level from the top plate of one wall across 20 feet to the other top plate of a parallel wall there is a 1/2" difference. I'm worried that it will mess with my rafter layout, ceiling joists, etc.

As you can tell I am not a framer by any means. I have a few basic skills that I can get by with I might be over thinking it like I most always do!

I've just always read that making sure all top plates are level with each will make it a lot easier as you go up and that's what worrying me. I'm not sure I have the skill set to adjust rafters, etc to compensate.

Thanks.

 

[37ford4dr]

you know the difference between a rough carpenter and a finish carpenter??? 1/16"

if the top plate is level all the way around 1/2" wouldnt be noticable by anyone ever.....keep moving ahead

 

[T_R]

1/2" over a 20 foot span is normal. Don't worry about it and keep building.

 

[Spdstr280Z]

Let me first say that I am in the middle of building also, well, I hope I am almost done with it, but I understand the desire for it to be perfect. If your framing is only 1/2" out of level, it is about as perfect as it gets. I just paid to have things knocked down and rebuilt because they were out of level, I would have never noticed 1/2", and it wouldn't bother me even now when I want near perfection. Keep going, enjoy it and save the concern for the real issues....

Jason

 

[fury9]

Curious how you found out it's out of level

 

[tcianci]

First of all, you need to be sure the building is truly out of level. Set up your laser inside the building about waist high then measure down from the laser line to the top of the block. If you're within 1/4 inch, roll with it. If it's out more than that, correct it. The best way to correct it is to correct what's really wrong, not to scab a patch onto the top of the building.

If you know your stud lengths to be good, then you're looking at correcting the level of the sill. Shim the sill as needed, and you don't need steel. Loosen the mud sill nuts and shim under the sill between the sill and the top of the block. By correcting the problem at its' source you ensure that the top plate as well as the window openings and door openings are all at the same level and that the jacks are plumb.

One thing you mentioned is absolutely true: If the top plates aren't right you will experience difficulty framing the roof and making all the rafters sit nicely on the top plate while having the plumb cut fit correctly to the ridge.

Good luck and while some guys think that a 1/2 inch on a frame isn't too much to worry about, it's better to correct it now than fuss with the roof framing later.

 

[readhead]

I agree with Tcianci. This is a simple fix since you did a sill plate and a bottom plate a rip of 7/16" osb between the two will take care of the problem. I would also like to know how you found out they were out of level. So the other two walls must be slopped. That is a little harder to fix. In order to tie the corners together you will have to cut all the studs or shim under the plate. I vote shims.

 

[Lunarist]

Thanks for the replies. Basically I found out it was out of level after I started putting the walls up. I noticed that they were not sitting real flush to the sill plate in spots along a wall. I used a laser level and measured down to the top of the block.

So I have block - sill sealer - sill plate. Should I shim between the sill sealer and sill plate or block and sill sealer? After that I'm sure it won't matter much but I could caulk any small gaps between the block and sill plate if it's large enough.

Thanks,

 

[kbs2244]

Great Stuff absolves many sins