"life" time warranty

[sberry]

I tried to have a discussion with a guy at work on warranty.

My take: If you invest your money and have to buy a tool every 10 years, you're better off than spending double or triple and having lifetime warranty.

The economics (as on most people here) were lost on him.

:shrug:

You think about this too clearly,,, if a dealer would give you a free keychain etc it would look so different.

 

[sberry]

I had a smart alec salesman trying to sell me a tractor at a trade show with the logic,,, I should pay 10K more today because the trade in was 5K better in 10 yrs.

 

[wafrederick]

I know anything wore out,Snap On does not cover.My neighbor Ken's dealer does warranty anything wore although he is not supposed to.To warranty a wore out Snap On wrench or socket,a steel ball and press are used.Insert a steel ball and start pumping down on the press until the wore out tool breaks.OTC puts not covered under warranty if used with an impact inside the case of their torx and hex bit sets.Taps and Dies,the tool truck brands have a lifetime warranty on.I have warrantied 3 Matco taps and one Matco rethreading tap so far.Matco now has a lifetime warranty on their burrs for use on die grinders.I have a couple sets coming for this reason,one set for steel only and one set for aluminum and soft metals only.Ratchets,my neighbor Ken's Snap On dealer does not fix them under warranty.I had him get a ratchet warrantied and I got a new ratchet,the 80 tooth version for a replacement.

 

[CoyoteKyle]

I think the Sears generation has been spoiled by "Lifetime Warranty". You know most tool companies and truck jobbers build the warranty cost into the end user cost. If we weren't such winers, quality tools would be 5 times less expensive. Half the time truck guys don't send the "defective" tool back to the factories because the factory won't accept it as "defective". It's just a customer service ploy and you've already paid for the replacement.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I had a smart alec salesman trying to sell me a tractor at a trade show with the logic,,, I should pay 10K more today because the trade in was 5K better in 10 yrs.

LOL, I know precisely what color machines you are referring to. And if the $$$ difference between major brand machines was that much sounds like the prices were inflated for that paint and this was their "justification". Around here you can shop for Green, Blue, Red and Orange machines...like for like the price differences between them dont amount to anything. I bought my last tractor based on best price and I suspect its the same brand that you are referring to.

The Resale portion is a whole other 5 page thread in the makings...

Like tools, if there is only one show/tool truck in town, grab your ankles. If you got 4-5 dealers all looking to do business, pricing is in line. In terms of warranty and such, same would apply.

Again, hard to paint purely black & white with such a broad brush.. Some guys can buy brand new KRL's and EPIQ's off tool trucks for 25% of MSRP, others pay full MSRP and learn to love it...

I've seen SO screwdrivers bent like bananas and warrantied....

 

[exmaxima1]

I've seen SO screwdrivers bent like bananas and warrantied....

My father bought a SO breaker bar many years ago---not sure the age, but I'm 60 and I've seen it my whole life. I inherited all his tools, and just a few weeks ago I broke the breaker bar. I stood on it to crack an axle nut, and it snapped.

I was devastated as this was my "go-to" tool for so many years and felt an emptiness with its loss. I called Snap-On thinking I was out of luck for warranty, but they replaced it! In fact, since the model number was so old, they didn't want the old tool back----they just sent me a new one without even a pic of the damaged tool.

All I can say is Snap On is an awesome company!!!

 

[Spudland_Dave]

All I can say is Snap On is an awesome company!!!

I would agree...IMHO, as I get older I see things in different lights... Today I tend to purchase and deal with companies which havent been bought, sold, traded, renamed, reworked, etc....when you really sit down and think of those companies which this applies to, the field really narrows down and what you see emerging is what could be considered the benchmark which others in their related market segments are judged against...Deere, CAT, SnapOn, etc...

 

[stikman56]

Lifetime Warranty: If it breaks, they send someone to kill you.

I love it! Got a good laugh, for sure. Instead of running to the Snap-On truck,now they're running away,looking back.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Let's bring Craftsman into this. They are a huge reason that tool warranty abuse is even in questions. People buy/find Craftsman stuff for pennies on the dollar and want a new one.

This separates the "only to the original purchaser" and "whoever has the tool in their hand" people.

Then we get into if a screwdriver was used as a prybar.... yeah, in my opinion the tool wasn't used for it's engineered purpose therefore the warranty is void. Just like if I try to ramp my brand new car and say that when it landed the suspension blew through the hood and I want a new car.

 

[sparky5982]

I think it's time to make it illegal to use the phrase "lifetime warranty" in advertising. It is almost always deceptive. If they mean one year, say one year. If they mean 10, say 10. If they mean "you pay three times the cost of the item to ship it to Bangladesh for inspection," then say so. Personally, I don't buy based on warranty. I buy what I think is the best tool regardless, because all warranties are ********.

 

[AndrewV]

If i buy off the truck, i really don't get a recipt.....
But just warrantied my dads ratchet from vietnam(jet electronics tech), he works for Stanley, and my Mac guy knows him. Said he bought it, and the company will waranty it regardless. Picked it up at my Mac guys house. Took 6 days.

But i see there should be limitations, a tool that was made when i was 10, and lets say im 50. It got's use. But then again i payed that premium for 5yrs ago should be covered no matter what, or my $300 sockets i bought 10yrs ago.
Devils addvocate lol.

But jim. Good thread bro.

 

[CoyoteKyle]

Tools have a "lifetime" just like us... and we're all abused!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[FMX_22]

In my eyes if i buy a cheap tool and it breaks its paid for its self and i would never bother but when/if my snap on tools break i always get them warranted i paid 10x the amount for a snap on tool over a cheap **** tool. Snap ons warranty system is the reason i buy there tools if it wasnt for that theres no way in hell id spend that much

 

[nicksnothereman]

People ruined it at retail (sears) then complained about it being ruined and replaced with chinese made lesser quality stuff making it worse for everyone else.

Happens with everything and I mean everything.

Lifetime warranty at retail might be 10 years to me. If I abuse something I'm okay with it breaking sooner and not warrantying it. I don't spend a bunch of money on individual tools anyway (if possible) and take care of my stuff. It might not be necessary to take care of truck tools but I'm not sure if you really want to count on a warranty that is not a spot; I don't do it with a warranty that is on the spot. When I find something I can depend on I don't want to have to replace it with something I might not be able to depend on.

 

[Adam.C]

Lots of people abuse and manipulate warranties

I think you hit the nail on the head

Recall thread about guy wanting to warranty 30 yr old Snap On screwdrivers whose handles rotted away. He was adamant he should get new screwdrivers after 30 years. Yet he didn't seem to understand how his actions, and those like his, affect company's warrantees).

Everybody thinks the "entitlement folks" are somebody else.

 

[jim1987]

I think you hit the nail on the head

Recall thread about guy wanting to warranty 30 yr old Snap On screwdrivers whose handles rotted away. He was adamant he should get new screwdrivers after 30 years. Yet he didn't seem to understand how his actions, and those like his, affect company's warrantees).

Everybody thinks the "entitlement folks" are somebody else.

Exactly what I said when that thread.came up.

But everyone cried
"But snap on knows about the issues with the plastic deteriorating and will replace no problem"
I still think that that is wrong and snap on is stupid for that. How many thousands of dollars did they spend in shipping out brand new screw drivers?

Yes they make billions, but that's still a lot of money.

 

[Adam.C]

Exactly what I said when that thread.came up.

But everyone cried
"But snap on knows about the issues with the plastic deteriorating and will replace no problem"

I remember your post.

In my opinion, there's a gulf of difference between what Snap On should do as a comapny to satisfy a single customer, and what we should expect when asking for warranty service. Guys in that thread seemed to confuse the two.

If Snap On warrantied the gentleman's tools, I would think they did the right thing from a business standpoint. If they could get some good PR out of it, I'm sure they could make more profit on the resulting good PR then they lost warrantying the tools. But they also need a legal way to say no to ridiculous claims like his (thus the OPs point in this thread).

But in my opinion, shame on the OP for asking to warranty a clapped out 30 yr old screwdriver, let alone a whole set.

 

[monomach]

Ehhhhh...I remember that thread, too. That Snap-On one was an actual manufacturing defect, though. They made screwdriver handles out of a garbage material that disintegrates even if you put them in a drawer on the day you buy them and never, ever use them.

That's worlds different from that other guy's 30 year old Proto ratchet made of awesome US steel that finally wore out after making him enough money to buy a freakin' house.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

I think SO should definitely warranty out that old "clapped" out screwdriver. That's what the fawk their warranty is in part for... defect in workmanship, even if it took 30 years. Now if homeboy wore the tip out after 30 years of use, well, we all know he got his monies worth. But if the driver is literally falling apart, yea, I believe that is a warranty issue. Obviously SO didn't know 3 decades ago this would happen, but they stand behind their product LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD.

You guys say 30 years is too long. So, what exactly do you think the cut off date should be? 4 months and 6 days? 2 years and 32 minutes? Lifetime (by at least SO standards) means forever.

And that is why they have a bazillion customers, including me. I spend the premium, I know where it goes, and there are times I call upon it.

I do agree with all companies having a right to refuse replacement. Common sense type stuff, but now you're talking red tape and underwriting. Lawyers make that part difficult. Maybe a company now-a-days should either warranty everything or nothing.

But what the hell do I know. Cheers, and cool discussion from all.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Let's bring Craftsman into this. They are a huge reason that tool warranty abuse is even in questions. People buy/find Craftsman stuff for pennies on the dollar and want a new one.

Good point, and combining it with my thoughts of companies & brands that have been bought/sold/resold/rebranded etc...I think the HUGE liability that is associated with the Craftsman brand is exactly why one of 2 things will happen when Sears finally goes down for good....the CMan name dies because nobody wants to have 50+ years worth of warrantyable tools which they are now "Liable" for in terms of warranty. Or the buyer of the CMan name really kills/reworks the warranty.

I think SO should definitely warranty out that old "clapped" out screwdriver. That's what the fawk their warranty is in part for... defect in workmanship, even if it took 30 years. Now if homeboy wore the tip out after 30 years of use, well, we all know he got his monies worth. But if the driver is literally falling apart, yea, I believe that is a warranty issue. Obviously SO didn't know 3 decades ago this would happen, but they stand behind their product LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD.
.....And that is why they have a bazillion customers, including me. I spend the premium, I know where it goes, and there are times I call upon it.

I do agree with all companies having a right to refuse replacement. Common sense type stuff, but now you're talking red tape and underwriting. Lawyers make that part difficult. Maybe a company now-a-days should either warranty everything or nothing.

But what the hell do I know. Cheers, and cool discussion from all.

I agree with most of what you said here, and I will also add that I feel that if a particular driver or CSR wants to warranty your dull drill bit, worn out tap or bent screwdriver cause you used it as a pry-bar...thats totally up to him or her. Its not warranty abuse. Its why I said earlier there is a lot of grayscale, common sense and best judgement that should be applied to warranty as a whole...Something you'll NEVER get in a box store, retail enviroment.

Some people probably would want to see me on death row for having my grandfathers ratchet which had a production date of 1952 repaired under warranty...I ASKED my SO guy, I did not demand it and if he would have told me NO and and I was SOL I would have completely understood and just kept the rat as is for sentimental reasons. BUT he and SO stood behind it 100% and earned a whole lotta good will with me...Pretty sure the company recouped its money back from fixing that small rat in the long haul as between then and now I purchased 2 KRL's and countless other tools.. heck my dad had been buying SO tools for 37 years, pretty sure they already were ahead in the count...and judging by the year end reports and overall company health, what and how they do things is working. Clearly they know how to take care of their customers. Take away the exeptional support and the brand becomes no different then Pittsburg Pro/Kobalt/Craftsman. When I buy SO tools, I dont kid myself...I know they arent made out of magic metals that never wear or break...I am paying for a well made US tool, with exceptional support.

Easy for me to say and I'm biased as hell here, but I say theres a world of difference between the guy buying 50 cent broken sockets at the local flea market with the sole intention of warrantying them for new. Or from those guys who shop for SO/Matco/MAC/Proto/Armstrong stuff off eBay and expect ANY warranty at all, but we sure do hear about how when they showed up on the local truck for the first and only time with a pail full of broken tools the truck guy was a a$$ and how the tool truck method of sales & support is stupid.

 

[Adam.C]

I think SO should definitely warranty out that old "clapped" out screwdriver. That's what the fawk their warranty is in part for... defect in workmanship, ....Obviously SO didn't know 3 decades ago this would happen,

Some plastics simply wear out. I've seen it in cars. Not everything we buy lasts forever. Had they made the handle out of wood and it decayed, or steel and it rusted, does that constitute a manufacturing defect? I don't think so.

 

[Adam.C]

Some people probably would want to see me on death row for having my grandfathers ratchet which had a production date of 1952 repaired under warranty...I ASKED my SO guy, I did not demand it and if he would have told me NO and and I was SOL I would have completely understood and just kept the rat as is for sentimental reasons.

Playing the devil's advocate just to make a point:

I think you did take unfair advantage. It's not a question about their policy, its a question of you dealing in good faith. Technically, that ratchet is only covered for the original purchaser (your grandfather). And while I'm not sure what the definition of the lifetime of a tool is, I'm pretty sure your 1952 model has been dead for many years. You could have purchased a repair kit for $10. Your simple question put your rep into an impossible situation. If he says no and he's a *******. It was loaded question.

Snap On is a business that employs people just like you and me. Its not a huge faceless, bottomless pit of cash. Our society has somehow got the impression that the government, corporate america, or any big organization, is the enemy and deserves to be taken advantage of. This is the product of our greed and selfishness, but it's also short sighted. Inevitably all organizations are made up of people just like us who deserve to be treated fairly.

 

[sberry]

None of this is taking advantage of Snapon, it was worth 200 sales for someone to come gush about 1 out of 500 they replaced. A guy has a 1000 tools he paid on, 1 new one that broke and he doesn't feel robbed on the other 999,,, priceless. Especially for a part cost only a small fraction of retail.

Snap On is a business that employs people just like you and me. Its not a huge faceless, bottomless pit of cash.

We get the impression that Walmart isn't the same? They are robbing us bringing it with a fraction of the markup?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Playing the devil's advocate just to make a point:

I think you did take unfair advantage. It's not a question about their policy, its a question of you dealing in good faith. Technically, that ratchet is only covered for the original purchaser (your grandfather). And while I'm not sure what the definition of the lifetime of a tool is, I'm pretty sure your 1952 model has been dead for many years. You could have purchased a repair kit for $10. Your simple question put your rep into an impossible situation. If he says no and he's a *******. It was loaded question.

Snap On is a business that employs people just like you and me. Its not a huge faceless, bottomless pit of cash. Our society has somehow got the impression that the government, corporate america, or any big organization, is the enemy and deserves to be taken advantage of. This is the product of our greed and selfishness, but it's also short sighted. Inevitably all organizations are made up of people just like us who deserve to be treated fairly.

Playing Devils advocate back

So....using your logic of if you ASK someone a question it is somehow putting that person in an impossible situation. Example...if I ask you to borrow your car or truck...I'm somehow putting you in a tight spot. After all, according to your own words...if you say no, your a *******.

As for Good Faith...I dont see how I didnt. Bad Faith would have been if I bought the rat at a garage sale for for a buck with the sole intention of trying to warranty it out for a new T72. OR Lying/decieving to get what you want. Having warranty work done on a tool which has been used professionally, taken care of, and was passed down legimitatly. Again using your thought process...my dad gave me a like new SL936 (he had a duplicate so he gave me one a few months ago)...I would not be entitled to any warranty on that tool "in good faith".

You said it...we all (companies too) just want to be treated fairly. I'm a regular customer of SnapOn & Its local franchisee, its just fair that I..along with the other customers get some wiggle room. How I screwed SnapOn is a great question...so I've spent major bucks with my franchisee and ultimately it ends up with the mother ship. So they put some parts that cost them what +/- $2 bucks to make into my ratchet and kept a customer 100% satisfied and willing to come back for more. How is it any different then me getting a T-Shirt, Hat, Keychain whatever every once in a while? Dont both accomplish the same task? Creating happy repeat customers?

 

[GreaseMonkey45170]

Playing Devils advocate back

So....using your logic of if you ASK someone a question it is somehow putting that person in an impossible situation. Example...if I ask you to borrow your car or truck...I'm somehow putting you in a tight spot. After all, according to your own words...if you say no, your a *******.

As for Good Faith...I dont see how I didnt. Bad Faith would have been if I bought the rat at a garage sale for for a buck with the sole intention of trying to warranty it out for a new T72. OR Lying/decieving to get what you want. Having warranty work done on a tool which has been used professionally, taken care of, and was passed down legimitatly. Again using your thought process...my dad gave me a like new SL936 (he had a duplicate so he gave me one a few months ago)...I would not be entitled to any warranty on that tool "in good faith".

You said it...we all (companies too) just want to be treated fairly. I'm a regular customer of SnapOn & Its local franchisee, its just fair that I..along with the other customers get some wiggle room. How I screwed SnapOn is a great question...so I've spent major bucks with my franchisee and ultimately it ends up with the mother ship. So they put some parts that cost them what +/- $2 bucks to make into my ratchet and kept a customer 100% satisfied and willing to come back for more. How is it any different then me getting a T-Shirt, Hat, Keychain whatever every once in a while? Dont both accomplish the same task? Creating happy repeat customers?

Nicely said!

 

[kythri]

so I've spent major bucks with my franchisee and ultimately it ends up with the mother ship. So they put some parts that cost them what +/- $2 bucks to make into my ratchet and kept a customer 100% satisfied and willing to come back for more. How is it any different then me getting a T-Shirt, Hat, Keychain whatever every once in a while? Dont both accomplish the same task? Creating happy repeat customers?

Yet, a loyal Craftsman (or other brand) customer who's spent major bucks with their local store is somehow a pile of garbage for warrantying a garage sale piece.

Sanctimonious hypocrisy, pal.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Sears has made a lot of retailing mistakes over the years but I think the Craftsman warranty is one of the things they got right. My guesstimate is that warranty returns are a small percentage of sales, possibly on the same order as their Craftsman advertising budget.

As a second point, if the warranty is such a burden to Sears, why do they still sell that crummy pear head ratchet?

 

[sberry]

I wouldn't be worried about hurting snap the least of any. They got a team of engineers, psychologist, accountants, all the way down the line, CEO who is sitting around how to extract every last possible nickel,,, they brought forth the contract against a bunch of laymen they hang on like whores around an army base on payday.

 

[AndrewV]

My eyeballs hurt now.

Conflicting views, and both are right. So no one is a winner.
Unless you buy broken, then warranty. Thats a **** move, that makes you a winner all the time.

 

[jim1987]

I can't believe how many posts there are here. Yet, no one bothered to answer any of the questions.

 

[wvrailroader]

Good point, and combining it with my thoughts of companies & brands that have been bought/sold/resold/rebranded etc...I think the HUGE liability that is associated with the Craftsman brand is exactly why one of 2 things will happen when Sears finally goes down for good....the CMan name dies because nobody wants to have 50+ years worth of warrantyable tools which they are now "Liable" for in terms of warranty. Or the buyer of the CMan name really kills/reworks the warranty.

If you read the text of the warranty on the package of a Craftsman tool, it says that if that Sears will replace the tool if you are not satisfied with it. I would think that would mean that if Sears goes belly up, whoever buys the Craftsman line should be free and clear, since "Sears" promised to warranty the tool - and the new company would not be Sears.

 

[jim1987]

If you read the text of the warranty on the package of a Craftsman tool, it says that if that Sears will replace the tool if you are not satisfied with it. I would think that would mean that if Sears goes belly up, whoever buys the Craftsman line should be free and clear, since "Sears" promised to warranty the tool - and the new company would not be Sears.

Ah. But what if it turns out to be like sk?

 

[wvrailroader]

Ah. But what if it turns out to be like sk?

Yes, but SK is a company - even through ownership changes, it is still SK. Craftsman is just a brand of Sears, not really a company unto itself.

 

[jim1987]

Ya, wasn't thinking of it like that.

 

[monomach]

As a second point, if the warranty is such a burden to Sears, why do they still sell that crummy pear head ratchet?

I'm guessing Apex is charging Sears no more than a buck for those things. That'd be why.

Sears isn't dumb. They know it's pretty much the lowest quality ratchet with decent availability in the US.

 

[sberry]

It seems like there is an impression that Sears will have to replace every tool they ever sold. They get a few pieces but that brings people back in to the store,,, ha
I got to agree about the ratchet, considering how many of these they sold its got to be the most junk tool of all time. I can see making some,,, they break,, but to keep making it for over 30 years is pitiful, even HF can get it right at half the cost? People might been more forgiving about the crummy sockets if the ratchet wasn't such a POS.

Believe it or not,,, the thing that saved Sears thus far is cheap, it has got cheaper over the years,, and the warranty. If they were still in the price range with the same junk today as 35 yrs ago I wouldn't buy either but these sets are so economical that they would be on my short list if I had to start over.
I think the quality has probably risen with the move to China. Some time and real use will tell, not so much from myself as I am already tooled and don't need to add additional hard line but agriculture, trucking, oilfield would be the places to look to see how good they really are.

 

[sberry]

I'm guessing Apex is charging Sears no more than a buck for those things. That'd be why.

Sears isn't dumb. They know it's pretty much the lowest quality ratchet with decent availability in the US.

I doubt they buy it because its low quality although there may be some madness to it,,,, they buy cause its cheap. With the move to China they could shop like Walmart ,,, shop like Napa and Auto Value to buy the best they can as cheap as they can.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I'm guessing Apex is charging Sears no more than a buck for those things. That'd be why.

Sears isn't dumb. They know it's pretty much the lowest quality ratchet with decent availability in the US.

Overall, I don't think Sears loses money on the Craftsman warranty. The value of the warranty comes from the profits they make on the new tools they continue to sell. But my opinion is only an opinion. The decision to keep the warranty has been made by the same businessmen and accountants who have also made hard decisions about cutting store funding and closing stores.

I don't even think they're losing money on returns of the pear heads. It wouldn't surprise me if a whole lot of customers buy enough other stuff at Sears with each return to cover it's costs.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I can't believe how many posts there are here. Yet, no one bothered to answer any of the questions.

Maybe there won't be a real answer until somebody challenges a rejected warranty claim for a ratchet or screwdriver in court.

 

[Farmall450]

IMHO tool owners are often under the false assumption that all tool companies have the same warranty as Craftsman. Craftsman truly stands out as the best warranty out there.

However if you read the warranty from most other tool manufacturers it usually says something like "lifetime warranty for defects or workmanship".

I see no reason why a tool company should rebuild a ratchet after a certain timeframe, or provide replacement for worn chrome, or where the tool was abused or rusty.

For example, someone here had some 30 year old SO screwdrivers and the plastic handles decomposed. This is clearly a defect in the material and should be replaced with no time limit.

However why should SO rebuild a 20 year old ratchet? These things simply wear out and this is not a defect.

They warranty that worn out ratchet because otherwise the owner would post a thread on her bad mouthing Snap-on and their warranty.