Lift modification question

[86turbodsl]

I think i know the answer to the question, but i'm hoping the fine guys here can give either backup or counterpoint to the question.

I have located a 4 post 12K lift for a decent price. It's an older American brand lift, which seems to have been part of the Dallas/Ft Worth area lift companies at some point, but out of business. Parts seem to be available.

The reason i am interested in it, is it's chain drive, not cable, and very very stoutly designed.

It is just a bit short for my intended use though. I want to lift crew cab diesel long bed pickups. The seller says it would fit on the lift, but the tire hangs over the ramp just a bit, which prevents the ramps from flipping up, which interferes with the locking mechanism. He had the same problem and upgraded to a longer lift. He is however a commercial shop, and i am just looking for a home lift.

How hard or expensive would it be to extend the ramps by a foot? I don't have pictures of the ramps, but i'm told they are very small i-beams with plating on the top.

Is this something that can be easily or cheaply accomplished? I obviously have welders to attempt something like this, but i don't know that anyone would or has ever done something like this.

Chain type lift 4 posters don't seem to be so common that i can just wait around for the next one.

Thoughts o wise and wonderful garage journal?

 

[Chevy-SS]

I recently bought a 4-poster by Challenger. I measured carefully for sizes and made the decision that I would not be able to easily fit the lift in the garage if I got long ramps. So I ended up with a lift that will NOT accommodate trucks like the one you have. But since I am never going to own that style of truck (extra long), I went and bought the lift that fits the other 99% of trucks.

My point is this: buy the lift that fits your needs. It sounds like the one you're looking at does not really work for you, so why take a chance? Keep shopping until you get something that works and fits.

Just my $.02 of course. Good luck.

 

[86turbodsl]

That's one data point on no-go. I guess i get impatient. Probably why i have so many projects...

 

[matt_i]

I would stick weld it. How good are your welding skills out of position...on an I beam there are vertical and upside down welds.

 

[zkdiesel]

Wouldn't think much of it. Doable, but I won't use a 4 post for repair. Those trucks already tall enough. 2 post is where it's at

 

[Jo Diesel]

I had a Bend Pak that I made 1' extensions out of 4" C Channel and some diamond plate. Bolted them on with 2 5/8" bolts. Worked like a champ and got the front wheels out past the posts . We had 2 jacks and could work on anything up to a 26' class b motor home.
We were the only shop in town that could pick up an ambulance, a short bus, or a 4 door dually long box.

 

[Crusarius]

May be a good idea to extend both ends of it to keep the truck centered on the lift.

Also make for shorter extensions with less leverage.

 

[oldcpecdr]

It's all doable.... BUT it will void any liability responsibility from the manufacturer and place it all on you.... your own insurance company would also probably not pay any liability claims.... So you CAN do it, and it MIGHT work, but it now becomes your problem if it doesn't.

I have sold hundreds of lifts and every time I get in a modification mode the engineers always win.....

Mike B

 

[RWorth]

I'd add the foot. If you don't trust your welding get a welder to do it, or bolt it together.

 

[Jo Diesel]

If you bolt it on it comes off. Mine was already drilled and had wheel stops bolted on. I just made them a little longer. If you are worried about balancing on a 4 post lift I will tell you that you have nothing to worry about. A Diesel 4 door long box is about a nose heavy vehicle you can find and mine lifted them fine. The only thing that ever gave me a problem was a BUS and that pig was just plain heavy.

 

[JimTMich]

Since you are a Mechanical Engineer, get out your freshman year Statics book and satisfy yourself that you have all the moments covered. I think you will do just fine modifying it.

 

[86turbodsl]

Hmm. This is all very tempting news. I agree, any liability would be on me, but at the same time, i would not be trying to claim any insurance on something i do at home. And the majority of the stress would be on the front.

I'm a pretty good stick welder, and i have VERY large welders. I'm not worried about that part.

 

[Ironcrow]

Instead of making the lift longer, could you modify the locking mechanism so it could lock with the ramps not fully up?

 

[sberry]

I will do a lot of stuff but I am not suggesting anyone modify a locking mechanism on a lift. I would buy some mods to tha ramps by qualified types but lift locks are often fussy all their own.

 

[86turbodsl]

My current thought is extend the runners, then sit them on top of the cross beams, instead of flush and extend the ramps out so the breakover angle stays the same. The platforms are a little higher off the floor, but so what. A little more trip hazard, but only by about 3-4 inches.

 

[86turbodsl]

I would stick weld it. How great are your welding abilities out of position...on an I shaft there are vertical and topsy turvy welds.

Runners are removable. I can flip them over. I can do most out of position, but i'm a little shaky overhead. I don't like metallic rain either...

 

[OldSoldier]

Pretty sure you replied to a bot, which modified a matt i post earlier in the thread.

 

[86turbodsl]

??? I only see one Matt earlier in the thread... Matt Isserstedt I believe, who's local. Not sure what you're talking about Old...

Edit: Ah, i see what you're saying now. Whatever, i'm replying to Matt....

 

[sanddan]

If you bolt it on it comes off. Mine was already drilled and had wheel stops bolted on. I just made them a little longer. If you are worried about balancing on a 4 post lift I will tell you that you have nothing to worry about. A Diesel 4 door long box is about a nose heavy vehicle you can find and mine lifted them fine. The only thing that ever gave me a problem was a BUS and that pig was just plain heavy.

I second this. Make believe it's a project at work and do all due diligence. If it makes sense, do it. If the numbers don't pan out, don't. (I'm also an engineer so not trying to bash you)

You are already a step ahead as you have the skills to do the math. If you want a second set of eyes to review the design send me a PM and I would be glad to help. I won't stamp the calcs as I am now retired but I can check them for you.

I personally wouldn't have a problem modifying a lift but I would follow all industry guide lines in the process. Keep in mind that these comments are for personal use, not for a business.

 

[davidhansen]

I'm not sure why you couldn't modify it.

 

[RWorth]

He is referring to, "tersaovila", there are 2 bogus posts under that name.

 

[Ironcrow]

I will do a lot of stuff but I am not suggesting anyone modify a locking mechanism on a lift.

What? Are we men or potatoes? I've not seen this locking mechanism, but can't we even THINK about it? If it's "fussy" it particularly needs to be improved.

 

[sanddan]

What? Are we men or potatoes? I've not seen this locking mechanism, but can't we even THINK about it? If it's "fussy" it particularly needs to be improved.

Well, I'm not a potato.

 

[86turbodsl]

I need to look at the locking system first. the lift seems to be very much like a challenger 12k or a forward 12k. I don't see a locking mechanism on those on the ramps. So what's there is unknown for now.

 

[sberry]

What? Are we men or potatoes? I've not seen this locking mechanism, but can't we even THINK about it? If it's "fussy" it particularly needs to be improved.

May be a professional mechnic but gives amateur advice. Why not tell how to weld on live fuel tanks while we are here.- Every time some dumb **** iidea comes up how to modify a listed hoist comes up we back here. What gain is in it to tell someone or even leave the impression this is a good idea? Why do that? Any money in it for you to leave the idea that this is something the diy crowd should consider?

 

[sberry]

I have a lot of respect for engineering, codes, listing etc. I used to think engineers we those who couldn't make it as construction workers. The older I get I see how many simple things about design havnt even occured to me.
I been around long enough to see a lot of stuff "made better" by types like myself. A good share of people working as mechanics have trouble putting something together right. Think it doesnt make a difference or it doesnt matter has been the cause of a lot of problems.

 

[sberry]

I done so much dumb stuu I am lucky to be in a single piece. Suit I did as a kid other shouldn't do. Scares me now to think about it, should have known better even then. A couple cases with pressure vessels come to mind when I am on this forum. Maybe a couple dozen other things too.
Safety wasn't up front like it is today and my Dad wasn't the most attentive about that. Climbing and rigging another and as a kid survived equipment and been an operator well before I was out of grade school, drove a brand new tractor from the loading dock when we got it when I was about 8.

 

[sberry]

At 50 plus I am not as brilliant as I was at 20 and often make sure people work for me do not modify safety designs and when I do something like that try to see if it effects something else, don't rewire heaters etc and if I do am aware I do so at my own risk.
Masters in trades usually follow codes, they don't make them up and spin off of them because the feel it doesn't make sense or they know better, that is for the engineers who work on this specific equipment. Once it is listed or UL approved any alterations may cause changes way down the line, as I said before, often stuff seemingly simple I often haven't even thought of.

 

[lakeroadster]

So... the modification would be bolt on (or welded) runnners, to extend the stock ones, so the wheels of the vehicle extend out past the posts?

 

[Ironcrow]

May be a professional mechnic but gives amateur advice.

Professional mechanic AND engineer. Design AND build equipment that becomes listed. Very familiar with UL, TUV, NEC, CSA etc. As a matter of fact my lift was UL listed but the power switch did not conform to NEC, so I changed the switch and wiring so it would.

As far as modifications, I trust a guy to look at the work and consider if he is qualified to understand the design and safety intent, needs to modify and why, and is qualified to do the work safely. If a person makes these decisions poorly, too bad. We use tools like welders, cutting torches, lathes, table saws, winches, hay balers, and whatever that can kill you if you don't know how to run them. We maintain, repair, and modify these tools. We ask for help here. But, somehow, automotive lifts (and garage door springs ) trigger a different response.

So, you are OK with structural welding on the ramps or platform, but not altering the safety latch engagement mechanism? It would seem once we weld, grind, and paint the ramp a weak weld is hidden. Whatever change we make to latch engagement, I don't know, it's usually pretty easy to look at a latch an see if it is engaged. The weld is safer than a latch/spring/cable mechanism? Like I said, I haven't seen this mechanism and don't even know if a modification is a solution to make it work for the user's application. But, I am completely at a loss as to how the idea should not be entertained.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Maybe it would be simpler to change the ramp design so the tire doesn't hold it up. I've never seen one that interfered with locks but that Doesn't mean they don't exist.

And no I wouldn't cut and extended the runway. Just my opinion

 

[sberry]

Ok, you are qualified, not everyone working on something like this is. Yes, a guy could fuk with it,,, or for most people leave it alone if it alters the mechanism as listed. I would think as a professional you would appreciate that?

 

[sberry]

Yes, I buy some ramp mods especially by most of these guys. Most of it will be lightly loaded and not all that critical in the grand scheme of things. Most of it is simple bearing ans shouldn't need to be designed so the welding is critical. Probably similar to trailer design and build. But as we admittedly havnt even seen the thing would it be prudent to endorse an alteration to a safety to a hoist? We don't even need to really run the math to a fine line.
Now we have altered parts on a long listed equipment not documented and not matching manual and may not even be obvious to the next guy.
I got a pressure washer this way, fine while I am alive and have memory that I messed with it but its on my list to return it to stock or alter the drawings.
One would be correct that I recall another thread with some advice about bracing the columns or some scheme where everyone decided to get in and run the math to a brain fart.

 

[sberry]

You are probably right though, was simply bored,ha Sorry

 

[WhiffySpark]

One more thing,

If you use a rolling air jack it may not come back far enough to pick the rear end up. Older models always ended short for some reason

 

[lakeroadster]

One more thing,

If you use a rolling air jack it may not come back far enough to pick the rear end up. Older models always ended short for some reason

Excellent point