Liftmaster 3800 Pro Install Trouble

[PT91]

I had the local Overhead Door Co install my 18 x 8 and 8 x 8 insulated doors in my new garage about four weeks ago along with two 3800 jackmount openers. It was their first experience with these openers.
My problem in both doors, but mainly the larger one will only stay closed for a few cycles. After that the door will meet the floor then return up.
I have read the manual many times, set the up/down and force hundreds of times, had Overhead come out and try and contacted Liftmaster support for help.
The doors seem balanced and don't fall on their own. My floor is even. The safety lights are glowing. The unit and cable tensioners seem installed correctly.
Unfortunatley, I don't seem to have any installers with experience with these units in my area (little rock, ar).
Any suggestions? I have read every thread on GJ about 3800s.
Tks in advance for any help.

 

[PT91]

I forgot to mention that the light on both units blink 12 times after this happens. Liftmaster support can't or won't tell me what this error means. It is not listed in the manual.

 

[JOHNMAN]

You set up/down force hundreds of times? That is probably worn out now.

You could try a few simple things yourself before calling in the experts to try to narrow down the problem that you are having.

1. Try temporarily jumpering out the safety photo eye receiver with a short section of spare wire. If the problem persists, it is NOT the photo eye receiver. Remove the jumper and move on. If the problem goes away, your photo eye(s) may need adjustment. They could "glow" but be on the very fringe or limit of working properly.

2. Set the down elevation so that the door has a gap before touching the floor. Make small adjustments until the door seal just touches the floor. It may take many attempts for this adjustment to remain repeatable. If the problem persists, move on. If the problem goes away, then your door was most likely closing too far and overloading the motor.

3. Once you have the closing height set, you need to set the force adjustment. I like to use a childrens toy or a dog toy and place it in the way of the door. I try to set the force as low as possible and yet high enough to operate the door. The idea is that the door won't crush things that happen to get in the way. My doors won't crush aluminum cans. I have small children and worry about this somewhat.

If all else fails, you need to call in some experts. Your local phone book should have more than one garage door supplier.

Good luck

 

[Chris Adams]

JOHNMAN covers a lot of possibilites, but if none of those how about RF problems? I have seen strong transmitters locally do crazy things with remote control devices.
Check the power source for the openers.

Both openers do the exact same thing? Then look for what they have in common.
Which might be power, radio transmissions.

 

[nova65ss]

Do you have the remote lights hooked up? If so does the light blink after the door has returned back up? If so that is an eye beam issue either alignment or short in the wire.


If the door reverses and comes back up and the overhead light does not flash that is a sensitivity or limit problem. May want to disconnect the door and make sure it is not binding near the bottom.

 

[e-tek]

Johnman gives great tips - obviously has no trouble with troubleshooting! I'm going to print that reply and keep it in my door manual!

 

[JOHNMAN]

nova65ss brings up good points. If the door binds (anywhere in the travel) it could cause issues.

nova65ss also probably knows a great deal specifically on these openers.

John

 

[porschedude996TT]

Now this is a real coincidence, I just installed two 3800's in my shop. I set the travel limits and the down force without any problems. The doors are new and they travel up and down with little effort. I like the way they slow down when they get close to the end of the travel. Do yours slow down at either end of the travel like mine?

My thoughts are that you paid someone to install and there is a problem. Call the installer and see what they can do. It seems weird that both of the units are doing it. Make me think that it is an install problem rather that a Door Opener Problem.

 

[PT91]

JOHNMAN,
Number 2 was an issue. I now have the large door set where it will not bounce off the floor when closing. Thanks for your help. Travel limit was a problem.
The remaining issue is when I open the door, it moves up an inch or two and stops. Hit the opener again and it opens fully. Any ideas?
Tks again. I had a good weekend organizing the garage even though it was very hot.

 

[PT91]

just went back out to check the door to see if it slows at closing. It doesn't.
Unfortunately, the door came back up when I closed it. Good thing I haven't paid the installer in full yet. They have really given up on it and I think I would pay someone with experience to fix my issues. I will call around tmrw.
The lights blinking...do you mean the remote lights or the lights on the opener that give error messages?
My remote lights work every once in a while but the motion sensor does not seem to work. I have been focused on getting the door to stay closed so long I haven't tried to work out minor things like the motion sensor lights.
I appreciate everyone helping.

 

[kbs2244]

Does this happen at any time of day or only at a certain time?

I have seen sunlight, both direct and reflected, do strange thing to the safety photo cells.

Try reversing them from one side of the door to the other.

 

[nova65ss]

just went back out to check the door to see if it slows at closing. It doesn't.
Unfortunately, the door came back up when I closed it. Good thing I haven't paid the installer in full yet. They have really given up on it and I think I would pay someone with experience to fix my issues. I will call around tmrw.
The lights blinking...do you mean the remote lights or the lights on the opener that give error messages?
My remote lights work every once in a while but the motion sensor does not seem to work. I have been focused on getting the door to stay closed so long I haven't tried to work out minor things like the motion sensor lights.
I appreciate everyone helping.

You should have an overhead light that comes on when you open the door so you can see in the garage upon arriving. If you close the door and it reverses wait until it returns all the way up, if the overhead light is flashing that is directly related to the photo eyes. If it just stays on and no flashing it is either meeting an obstruction or going down too far.

If you can set the limits and they stay for a few travels and then it starts going too far the coupler may be loose or the opener may have a problem holding its limits. When you are having this problem does the door travel all the way up or does it stop a little short from all the way up?

 

[PT91]

My overhead light that came with the opener works sometimes but usually doesn't come on. It has never flashed.
I checked the collar for tightness and found that they were tightened but the set screws were not so I tightened them a bit.
Liftmaster suggests that I mark he collar and the bar with a pencil to see if it is slipping.
Only once did the door not make it to the fully open position.
When you say to jump the sensors, you mean to put one short piece of wire connecting the two sensor connections on the unit, right?
Could the door be too tight against the wall at the top of the door. There is a small rub mark on one side where the door rubs on the side trim.
My doors also have weatherstripping on the outside that gives them a good seal. Maybe this is sticking a little????

 

[JOHNMAN]

Yes, short jumper wires is what I was suggesting.

These are only to be used for troubleshooting and not to be left in place. You should never defeat safety devices long term. Only during troubleshooting.

Since you are having MAJOR difficulty, I would suggest trying it. It would eliminate the device as being the problem.

The tensioner sensor is another safety device that may not be set correctly.

I would strongly suggest trying to make sure that the overhead light works and works correctly. That seems to be one of the feedback items that could help tell you what the problem is.

Rub marks could definitely be caused by binding of the door or seals. Remember, the door should travel smoothly through it's travel. The motor controller in this opener "senses" when the door is being overloaded or binding. This could be one of your problems.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you may have several small problems that all need to be addressed.

I understand that this process of troubleshooting can be frustrating, but try one thing at a time until you make an improvement. It's time consuming and requires patience, but once you get it, you should have a deep understanding on how it works.

I really wish that there was a written sequence of operation so that we would all know for sure exactly how it is supposed to work and in the proper order.

From what I remember, this is how I think it works:

1. Door shut
2. Press operator button.
3. The overhead light illuminates.
4. Lock pin retracts.
5. Motor starts (soft start ramp up)
6. The door raises (slow at first, building speed)
7. The door nears the upper limit (raising speed slows)
8. Motor stops (after slowing down)
9. The overhead light times out and turns off.

Lowering:

1. Door up
2. Press operator button.
3. Overhead light illuminates
4. Motor starts (soft start ramp up)
5. The door lowers (slow at first, gaining speed)
6. The door nears lower limit (lowering speed slows)
7. The motor stops (after slowing down).
8. The lock pin extends.
9. The overhead light times out and shuts off.

If either the photo eyes or the cable tensioner has a fault (signal broken). the operation stops and/or reverses and the overhead light should flash an error code.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken. This is from memory and I do not currently own one of these openers (but plan to some day).

 

[cobrar97]

Assuming that the sensors and cable tension monitor are not the problems...it could simply be a bad circuit board. It DOES happen.
I'd get on the phone with Liftmaster, and keep them on the phone the entire time. Don't let them off the hook until it's fixed. If they determine it's a bad board, they'll send it directly to you.
The 3800 opener is about the easiest opener available right now. It's operation is simple and direct. ALSO...it the original model of the 3800, Liftmaster had trouble with the RPM sensor. The new models have this corrected, but maybe you have one of the originals that was sitting around at the dealer's you used.
Don't get frustrated...it's a great opener.

 

[dankeenan]

Did they use step pulleys on the doors. I had to screw with my 3800 on a larger door due to the pulley size and configuration. Look at the pulley size and if it is stepped, this will cause issues.

 

[StumpXJ]

Not entirely true, I have step pulley's (6" inchers) and my 3800 works like a champ. Its also on the same size door as the OP, 18 x 8, and mine is a high lift door. If the door is set-up properly, and its not in a bind in any section of the range of motion, there should be no issues.

I fought mine a little after installing getting it set-up, but finally got it going. It sounds like you are getting some good advice. Good luck!

~James

 

[PT91]

thanks everyone....i am still working on it but having a hard time finding the time with work and all of the other new house chores.
it still has me fooled but it will be solved.

 

[PT91]

Update.
Today I had a new tech from overhead doors come out and the liftmaster tech support on the phone.
The double door has a broken circuit on the board which will be will be replaced when we get the new one. I hope that is the problem.
The smaller door seems to work now after some more micro adjusting of the settings. Fingers crossed.
I will update once the part comes in next week.

 

[6806goats]

Ah so you did find a problem with a board...cool. I don't own one of these yet, just out here looking for info on it. One thing I read was that the door needs to be able to close all the way down by itself (like if the 3800 wasn't there then the door would close) as the 3800 just raises the door. On the way down it's just unwinding the pulley and if the door doesn't drop then it will let the cable unwind until the unit senses loss of tension. I have no idea if this is the case for you, just something I was reading that might have fit this problem...and then you found an intermittent/broken board.

Ok, off to find more 3800 info and also see what it takes to raise the track to the ceiling so I can max the overhead for a car lift.

Thank you all for some great ideas. Learning as I surf.

 

[StumpXJ]

One thing I read was that the door needs to be able to close all the way down by itself (like if the 3800 wasn't there then the door would close) as the 3800 just raises the door. On the way down it's just unwinding the pulley and if the door doesn't drop then it will let the cable unwind until the unit senses loss of tension. I have no idea if this is the case for you

Not sure where you read this, but it powers the door down as well as up. It does not just let the door "drop". The door should never just drop without an opener, it should remain open at most any position if it is balanced correctly with the spring tension. This is important for any type of opener, as it does not actually lift the weight of the door.

~James

 

[PT91]

well i celebrated too soon i guess. the unit w/out the board problem is now up to the same problem. it worked for 2 or 3 days then started bouncing again....i am bewildered again.
i taught the wife how to reset the units but i can't keep doing this everyday. the overhead door guy is starting to recommend conventional openers but i am very stubborn.

 

[6806goats]

Not sure where you read this, but it powers the door down as well as up. It does not just let the door "drop". The door should never just drop without an opener, it should remain open at most any position if it is balanced correctly with the spring tension. This is important for any type of opener, as it does not actually lift the weight of the door.

~James

Hey I found it. It's in the review section on Amazon. Can I list what was written there or would that be contrary to forum policy? It describes the problem this fellow is having almost to a T.

Basically what one gent said is that the 3800 just turns the shaft like an axle. It'll wind up the cable to raise the door but just unwinds the cable to let the door down. As I'm sure you are aware of how this operates, this system can not drive the door down like the chain or screw drive systems that are physically attached to the door (in that case then yes there shouldn't be any weight on the door). All it can do is take up tension and release it. If the door doesn't go down by itself and take the cable with it then the tensioner will stop the motor when it senses slack.

I read the front page in the install manual and it seemed counter to what needs to happen with the door. They say to balance the door which seems weird to me. The tension spring needs to let the door drop by itself even if it is only seems like a 5lb of force is being developed. Or a better explanation is if the door weighs say 50 lbs then the tension spring would need to lift 45 lbs leaving enough force/weight to allow the door to close. The 3800 has to overcome the spring and door weight or difference..if that makes sense. You probably know all that stuff so not trying to insult your intelligence. More like just explaining to myself by writing it down.

Not trying to come across like a jerk, just passing along what I read. But I do have to say that I can understand how it would open the door by driving the shaft which is connected to the pulley/cable/spring assembly. They counteract the weight of the door and if the spring tension is too great then the door won't close (depending on which way the spring is wound of course). I have a 12X14 door that wouldn't stay open and since I never messed with one of these before, my Bro and I just experimented until we got the tension correct and now it opens very well.

Thanks and good luck. If I'm wrong then educate me. I'm out here to figure it out.

 

[StumpXJ]

Nope, it all sounds correct to me, and that may very well be what the problem is. I just was saying that the motor is powered when its in reverse (going down), and that it doesnt just freewheel which is what I thought you were saying.

They do say the door should remain stable when raised to halfway, but if it has too much spring tension, then the cable tension sensor arm could be causing the issue if the cable goes slack.... on second thought if the cable goes slack, then there is nothing supporting the weight of the door, so it would come down. If you unwind the cable (what the opener does), the door should come down (gravity, the spring just slows it) unless it is totally horizontal in the tracks.

The only way (on my door and opener at least) the cable tension sensor would cause the problem is if there is something blocking the door from coming down (which is what is was designed to do). That would allow the slack needed to activate the micro switch in the tensioner arm. Unless the tension sensor arm is not setup properly.

I think if we were there looking at his set-up, it may be more obvious what is going on. Maybe he can take a video and post it up.

I know on my 3800 and door, I had to set the power level before I could set the limits. The factory set power level was not enough to move the door smoothly to set the limits, and it kept tripping the weight sensing portion of the unit, which drove me crazy until I re-did it after setting the power level for the weight of the door.

I dont know, I havent had my coffee yet this morning...lol

~James

 

[kenners]

I recently purchased 2 - 3800's and last night I installed one completely and had mounted the second. The first one would open, when trying to close it would go about a foot and return open, found out I had mounted the cable tension device to far away from the wall, putting it to close to it's cut off limit. Once corrected, up, down and locking work great. I need to find a place to put lights and then finish the install on second opener.

 

[6806goats]

Thanks James,

Glad I'm at least close in how these work Thinking about ordering up a pair but it'll be so darn long before I can install them. Even though about having a pro come out but $$$. Main pro cost would be in raising the track rail closer to the ceiling for the 4 post lift. But back to the OP, can you list a video or anything to some of the guys here like James mentioned? I doubt I'll be able to see (local G'ment policy) it but maybe something on youtube would help others out.

HAs anyone gone through the process of raising there door rails higher into the ceiling? I'll start searching but if you have done this or have a link I'd appreciate it. I was thinking of adding sections to the verticle part of the rail and just getting the horizontal to within 6 inches from the ceiling. Maybe I'll start a new thread if I don't find something instead of HJ this fellers thread. Good luck on solving your problem.

 

[1500hd]

With a jackshaft opener it helps to put about an 1 1/2" slope on the horizontal track towards the header. And make sure the door closes very smoothly. I did this with my track and it help alot! The torsion springs really can't be too tight. Think about how this opener works, it turns the tube forcing the springs to either wind or unwind. If the springs are "too tight" the door will still go down because the springs are being unwound.

 

[StumpXJ]

The spring gets tighter as the door closes. If the springs are 'too' tight, then the door will not want to stay closed. As the door opens, spring tension is slowly released as it gets higher. With that in mind, theoretically the door gets heaver as it get higher, thats when the horizontal portion of the tracks helps keep things 'balanced' by relieving the weight of the door. When you have a high rise door or one that goes straight up with little or no horizontal section, you have to get a little more involved with spring setup and stepped pulleys. The slight angle on the horizontal track is a good point, and my door guy did the same thing on my tracks when I had them raised them up to the new ceiling height while they were installing the door.


~James

 

[1500hd]

Jackshaft openers DO NOT "feel" the weight of the door. They force the torsion spring tube to turn. When you stop the door in the middle of the lift cycle the opener locks the tube in that postion. The "too" tight springs will not force the door up! The door is still weighing down on the cables and keeping them tight. The opener just controls how fast the springs wind/unwind.

 

[StumpXJ]

Think about how this opener works, it turns the tube forcing the springs to either wind or unwind. If the springs are "too tight" the door will still go down because the springs are being unwound.

Your statement above is what I was refering to. You are misunderstanding my post. I was saying that regardless of what opener is on it, (even with no opener), as the door goes down, the springs gets tighter. If it is wound too tight, then the door will not easily stay in the down position (with no opener attached). You said "you cant really have the spring too tight", but you can. It may not effect the opener to the point of working improperly, but it does have an effect on proper door balance. Its really here nor there, and has not much to do with the original problem, since the OP said the door was properly balanced.

Sure, the opener does not feel the full weight of the door. But what it does feel is the spring tension. This tension requires 'force' to move (either direction) regardless if its the weight of the door (on the upper end of the door travel)or the tension of the spring (on the lower end of the door travel). What I had to do (and what I was trying to explain) was set the force higher than from the factory, before I could set the final travel limits. It would do similar things that the OP was having, since the force was set to low from the factory to move the door to set the travel limits without tripping an error.


~James

 

[PT91]

fixed. i think we found the issue.
rcvd a new logic board and once installed the big door works like a charm. now it slows at the last bit before sealing the door to the floor.
i called support and told them and they are sending another board for the second door. this chamberlain support person told me that 12 blinks of the light means bad board. i had been giving them that information since my first call!!! anyway, i should hv the new board this next week and hopefully that is t.
what are the odds of getting two units with bad boards?

 

[PT91]

OK, I jinxed myself. After two days of working perfectly, it is back to the 12 light error meaning bad logic board. Anyone have an idea? Bad power supply?
I will call them tmrw to explain.
Very frustrating.

 

[Jetta Knight]

OK, I jinxed myself. After two days of working perfectly, it is back to the 12 light error meaning bad logic board. Anyone have an idea? Bad power supply?
I will call them tmrw to explain.
Very frustrating.

I came here via a Google search because of this same exact problem.

I had two new doors and Liftmaster 3800's installed one month ago by a very professional local overhead company. I purchased the Liftmaster openers on eBay but this dealer installed them for a fee. One week ago the left side door started the "bouncing and reversing" thing withing two feet of the bottom when closing the door. I called Liftmaster and they instructed me to reset the limit and pressure. I did this but it provided no improvement. The LED gave 12 flashes and Liftmaster sent a new control board yesterday. Three days ago the other door started the same nonsense! Meanwhile, one of the door panels had a blemish that the installation company replaced today. While they were here I explained and demonstrated the closing problem. The guy immediately recognized the issue and adjusted the track outward on both sides (two second fix) and the problem has disappeared. I don't know what I will do with the new board from Liftmaster but this just goes to show that there is no replacement for a professional install. I would have looked at that track all day and seen nothing wrong. With the Liftmaster disengaged the door appeared to open and close smoothly and effortlessly. The experience of a professional knew better.

 

[dmeadow]

Took me a while to get mine to work properly consistently. I had similar problems as the OP. I don't know why Liftmaster is talking about bad logic boards with flashing lights, that happens to mine whenever it malfunctions due to maladjustment.

I had to readjust mine a few times, until I started looking for the real cause of the problem. It turns out that my door was binding in the tracks and rubbing on the garage frame a bit. It wasn't enough to be noticeable when lowering the door by hand, but enough to trip the reverse on the opener. I made sure I lubricated all the moving parts of the door and then did some bending on the track to make sure the wheels didn't hang up anywhere. I also replaced the bit of wood on the garage frame that was rubbing and made sure it was not interfering. After one more adjustment, I have had no difficulties with it for several years...

 

[muncie21]

Any update on this from the OP? I'm thinking of buying a 3800 liftmaster, but am holding off until I hear how this gets resolved.

 

[foss]

thanks everyone....i am still working on it but having a hard time finding the time with work and all of the other new house chores.


I hear ya....."this working for a living" sure cuts into our time, doesn't it...lol

 

[doormaster]

wow sounds like a lot of waste of time while never adjusting sensitivity which is what I suspect is the problem lol... if anyone needs help with these machines or any others please ask, they are very simple to diagnose and fix in minutes....I've installed hundreds of these and have never failed to solve any problems in a few minutes.

 

[Faradio]

wow sounds like a lot of waste of time while never adjusting sensitivity which is what I suspect is the problem lol... if anyone needs help with these machines or any others please ask, they are very simple to diagnose and fix in minutes....I've installed hundreds of these and have never failed to solve any problems in a few minutes.

Hello everyone, I'm from Spain, and I have a similar problem with my LM3800-A:

When the door is closing and it reaches down, it automatically goes back up and the led shows 12 flashes. I proceed to adjust the limits and force and it works fine. But if there is a power failure, the fault appears again.

Chamberlain told me that the board was bad, so I bought a new board, but the same thing happens, when there is a power failure the limits are cleared and the door hits down and goes back up (showing the 12 flashes).

The fact that I have changed the board makes me feel confused, does anyone know what I can do?

Thanks.