Liftmaster 8500 cables keep unravelling

[kinggsxr]

Wondering if anyone who has a Liftmaster 8500 has dealt with the cables unravelling off of the drum constantly...

Since I got my 8500s installed early this year this has happened probably close to 10 times now and I am getting fed up with this issue...Every time this happens I have to call the installer who set it up for me and he comes back to repair it. The last time he installed these keeper springs on the last roller that are suppose to keep some tension on the cables. This seemed to be working and I though the issue was fixed but today it happened again. It seems to happen when I leave the door open for a while, like more than a couple hours but If its just a quick open and close it seems fine.

This time I partially dealt with it myself by unhooking the cables from the garage door and letting the door close on its own under tension which was not fun. The installer is coming over tomorrow to fix the rest again since I refuse to deal with tension springs...He basically told me he is out of ideas at this point and I should try to get some second opinions on what could be going on.

I am beyond frustrated with these Liftmasters. I don't really blame the installer as he has come over every time to fix it for free. am really starting to regret getting these. Any ideas on how I can get this resolved for good?

 

[nodoor]

nope, three 8500’s installed in 2018 one a high lift, zero issues. my guess is installation issue.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

I have two 8500‘s which I installed myself and have no such issues. The way a jack shaft opener (of any brand or model) works, the unwinding can only occur when the opener rotates the shaft to close and the door does not want to move in that direction. Simple physics tells us that’s a door issue, not something caused by the opener.

Are your doors horizontal when fully opened? I suspect that if you put a level on the horizontal portions of the rail you will find that the door has to travel uphill when it starts to close.

 

[CraigStu]

I had that problem. I adjusted the door so it didn't open as far. The only thing closing the door is gravity so if too much of it goes horizontal there is nothing for gravity to pull down. I actually never got the adjustment to work via the controller programing so I finally gave up and bolted a small piece of angle steel into the inside of both of the tracks so the top roller wheel hit it. I happened to have a vice grip that I could clamp onto the track to experiment to find the best spot.

 

[Wrench97]

Yes it happens because the door does not move when the opener starts unwinding the cables we use to see it a lot with shop doors hooked to chain hoist style.
the answer is to either raise the back of the track so the door wants to drop or add bumper springs to the rear of the track to give the door a push start.

27" Garage Door Pusher Bumper Springs | Preferred Doors LLC

Garage Door Pusher Bumper Springs 27 Inch (Pair)

store.preferreddoorservice.com

 

[matt_i]

Imo you need more tension on the cables which is only achieved by winding the torsion spring(s) tighter. The torsion spring is at minimum torsional force when the door is fully up.

The other possibility would be to adjust the top stopping point so its at a slightly lower position of the door. Even 2" lower will put the torsion springs in a position where they are applying more force to the cables.

 

[jack stand]

I have had this and several guys here hit on the answer.
1 adjust the door to stop sooner or elevate the track TO CREATE ENOUGH WEIGHT FOR THE DOOR TO FOLLOW THE 8500 IN THE CLOSING.
2 take a little tension OFF the spring to help in the above.
When the door is horizontal (stored-open) it has little gravitational reason to close, or at least as fast as the 8500 is allowing it to. The smallest bit of difference in the doors speed (closing) in relation to the 8500's speed will cause the cables to "birdnest".
It is an adjustment problem, now the ****** antenna for the remote control(s) is another problem.

 

[Walkers]

Usually it is caused at the top of travel when the door becomes too light. It could mean you door springs are a wee bit too tightly wound, or that the travel is just a wee bit too high (If the door is completely horizontal there is no weight on it too keep the cables on the drums).
To start with lower the upper limit some so that the door hasn’t gone all the way around the curved track. That usually solves the problem.

 

[kinggsxr]

Thanks for all the feedback...
I have seen those pusher springs and asked the installer about them, he recommended another kind of spring that goes on the last roller it looks like this:




At one point he did try angling the track so that the door would not be horizontal but it did not help. I am thinking of trying those pusher springs next and maybe setting the limit a bit lower.

Could something be off with the torsion spring or where it connects to the opener itself? Its odd how it seems to loosen over time rather than if its just a quick open or close. It only seems to happen if I have the door open for more than an hour.

 

[frankd]

Yes it happens because the door does not move when the opener starts unwinding the cables we use to see it a lot with shop doors hooked to chain hoist style.
the answer is to either raise the back of the track so the door wants to drop or add bumper springs to the rear of the track to give the door a push start.

27" Garage Door Pusher Bumper Springs | Preferred Doors LLC

Garage Door Pusher Bumper Springs 27 Inch (Pair)

store.preferreddoorservice.com

^This. I did the jackshaft conversion myself and initially I was having issues when the door was closing. The wire would never unravel but when the opener would try and lower the door, it would cause slack in the cable, tripping the safety switch.
I installed the pusher springs above and also raised the back of the garage rails about an inch or 2 so that the door would naturally want to come down. After doing that, the opener worked flawlessly for years.
With the door all the way up and the 8500 disconnected from the jackshaft, try turning the shaft and see if the door wants to come down on its own. it should come down easily without binding.

If you go with a professional installer. Find a really good and reputable one. I had a guy come and install a bottom seal just because I didn't want to deal with it. I found him on google and he had a few good reviews. The guy turned out to be totally incompetent. He spent 5 hours at my house, had no clue what he was doing. Ended up causing a bunch of damage and still couldn't get the door to close so he disconnected the safety switch thinking I wouldnt notice. He was taking the cables off and recalibrating the opener/adjusting the springs. I kept asking if he was ok and he said that the opener was "really old and messed up" (I installed it 2 years prior). It took me several hours to fix what he F'd up.

 

[nmk_61802]

Did he also install the tension monitor? I have this issue on one of my doors, but the cables never unravel. The door just reverses when the monitor senses slack. I plan to fix with pusher springs, but haven’t got to it yet

 

[kinggsxr]

yes he did install it but it doesn't seem to work. Not sure if the adjustment is off but the cables will still unravel and the display shows an error after that.

I had the installer order the pusher springs so hopefully that will be the end of it.

 

[Walkers]

Where do those pusher springs go?

 

[Wrench97]

Where do those pusher springs go?

End of the track, they push the top of the door down.

 

[Walkers]

End of the track, they push the top of the door down.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[nodoor]

Has your installer ever successfully completed a 8500 installation?

I asked my GC if his garage door sub had done 8500 installs previously. They both had done several in the past. I was very specific and wanted all three on the left side with the dead bolts. Zero issues in the past three years. I was concerned when I read here about random openings and other issues. An installer with experience is valuable.

 

[kinggsxr]

After a couple months of delay I have an update on this situation.

To answer the above, no he doesn't have much experience with this type of opener. He said he has done on or 2 others but mine is the worst he's dealt with.

So after some delay on ordering the pusher spring he was able to get a pair and came by to install yesterday. Long story short it was a f'ing disaster. Now the door is completely f-ed and he is at a complete loss now since this was suppose to the the magic solution to my issue. Not only that but the other door which was working fine this whole time now suddenly has the same issue and I feel like j can't trust that one to close properly now either. Ffffffuu

I am at my wits end dealing wit this POS of a garage door opener and having serious buyers remorse. At this point I am pushing him to try and get a refund from his supplier. I know it's a long shot but at this point I would take a standard overhead opener over this damn thing anyway.

Sorry for the rant...just need to blow off some steam after the situation yesterday.

 

[mikedodge]

Usually like others said it's because the tension on the springs. It needs to match the opener. Adding anything onto it to try to correct it is only a band aid.
If that installer can't get it right you might want to call another one in. Who knows May be it's another problem that they'll find.

 

[bugnout]

I had the same problem until I installed pusher springs and no more issues.

 

[Viper98912]

I thought I had replied to this before;

After installing the pusher springs, what exactly got "worse" about it?

In terms of the unraveling cables, is this when the door is up and it first starts moving down? I noticed you said it's after the door has been up for a while?

Have you considered lowering the tension on the springs? Give it just a little less, so the door wants to barely "fall" down when it reaches the top. Be aware that if you ever disconnect the opener and open it manually, you will need to use a C-clamp to keep it up for safety. Normally a door should stay up by itself, but with shaft openers you need to be just slightly different because of the potential for unraveling. For example, with my doors, they "sometimes" don't always stay up if I move them manually; they're right on that fine edge of being up or falling down. And it's just how I like it. Hence, c-clamp.

Also, are your horizontal tracks angled slightly downward, or slightly upward? In other words, if when your door is up, you want the track to be angled towards the opening so it "falls" down the "horizontal ramp" towards the door opening. You don't want your horizontal tracks angled in the opposite direction where the door is actually falling backward, away from your opening. (Sorry if this was written strangely). You may need to angle your horizontal tracks upward some (pick a higher hole in the rear track frame) to get it to slope better.

Finally, I remember years ago I had a standard door with a standard 12" track radius that looked like it would get very close to unraveling because of how the door was trying to start moving with such a tight radius. In my next setup I used a 32" track radius, and in a following setup I did a multiple radius setup (which some experts won't like, but for me it worked just fine). All I'm saying is that you may have a jamming condition because of the tight 12" standard radius, causing the door to not move as fast as the motor is spinning. So...while you may not want to hear this, you may need to choose a different horizontal track with a larger radius (15", 20", 32", etc). This may get expensive. If you were looking for more headroom, then the larger radius track is an easy fix (but not cheap). If you have a standard door with a standard setup and you don't care about extra headroom, and you can't get any resolution with lower tension and slightly-more angled horizontal tracks, and you don't want to spend a bunch of money, I'd just to switch over to a regular door opener.

 

[kinggsxr]

OK I have cooled down since my melt-down the other day and have had time to think and process the situation.

As a first step, I am definitely calling another installer to get a second opinion. Going to seek out someone experienced with these openers. If anyone happens to know such a company servicing the DC/MD/VA area, please me know.

The cables seem to unwind from one side first. We noticed there was a plastic piece on the side of the door that was a bit chewed up..evidence of it rubbing which was not present on the other door that was working ok. Installer thinks it could be a slight misalignment with the tracks and may be catching against something on that side.

When the pushers were installed, the door was completely loosing tension before it would even move forward to close. The springs were installed in 2 positions first where it was about 3/4 compressed and then moved closer to maybe 90% fully compressed. This is again where his inexperience dealing with these openers and accessories is clear. The tension monitors are also not installed or are not set up correctly to where it automatically reverses once it sense a loss of tension.

The pitch of the track actually seems like it slopes backwards slightly before the curve. Not sure how I never noticed it before or if somehow it has started to sag...not sure how that would happen unless the ceiling itself has started sagging. I will get a level on it later to see if its really sloping that way or if its just an illusion.

The installers next move is to completely uninstall everything, double and triple check adjustment/alignment of the track and door and cables, and reinstall and position the pushers correctly.

I would like to have another installer over this week for second opinions and see what he recommends. My main installer even mentioned he would pay for the other guy to fix the issue but I doubt that really. At this point he is all ears for suggestions and recommendations as well and is just as frustrated as me with this whole thing.

 

[Wrench97]

I've found it best to have the end of the tracks mounted a bit higher so the horizontal tracks have a bit of a slope to them and are not level, it helps to get the door started on it's way down.
Doors that you pull down or have a conventional opener that push on the door don't really need that but when you are spinning the operator shaft the door needs to be dropping and pulling the cables tight as it starts off.

 

[Keep]

Do you have any pics?

Couple of questions.

1. When the door is fully opened, where does the door sit? Is the door completely flat or is the last panel still on the curved section of the track? If the door is pulled to far up (you can adjust the upper limit of travel) there is no weight for gravity to help it fall back down.

2. If you disconnect the opener, how easy is it to open the garage door? If your springs are wound to tight, then the jack shaft is going to be a huge issue as you have found out.

Suggestions:
1. Loosen the springs a bit, or a bunch depending on just how tight they are.
2. Lower the "fully opened point" of the door. I have found on my door, about 1.5 inches below the top of the opening works best.
3. Raise the rear of the door track a couple inches to help the door fall back down.

Edit - The more I think about it, I don't think the springs are really at play here. It seems more a door adjustment issue, there is not enough weight on the door when you are trying to close it to keep tension on the cables.

Sorry for the swap in opinion. I just went outside and looked at mine and this is the result!

Oh yeah get the tension monitor sorted out!!

 

[Viper98912]

It sounds like when you installed the pusher springs, it jammed the door into the radius of the track; in other words, there's too much force pushing the door forward and one of the wheels (or two) is getting completely hung up in the radius and it's just not moving.

I'd say you definitely need to get some rake on the horizontal rails to help things move. Also, if one side is unraveling before the other, you may need to readjust one of the drums slightly, but more importantly, one of the wheels is hanging before the rest of the door. So yes, there might be a misalignment of the tracks themselves, and you may need to push one in or pull one out slightly (or even, take a look at the fact that maybe one of them needs to slightly move upward?).

Also, take a look at your wheels and make sure they're moving somewhat smoothly (although I don't think this would cause your issue). Especially the second wheel, as that's probably the one jamming into the radius.

PS - can you tell us the size of your door? Is it a standard 7' high door with 4 sections? And you're using a 12" radius track?

 

[frankd]

I agree with others that are saying there's an issue with the installer or the door. Mine did have an issue where the cable started coming loose on the drum, but I had installed the safety switch properly so they never unraveled.
The pusher springs made a big difference for me. I also don't have the garage door open all the way. When the door is open, the last/bottom roller is a good 50% into the radius and the roller is lower than all the other rollers. I also lifted the back of the door tracks giving the door a downward pitch so that it would want to come down under its own weight with gravity.
I did all this maybe 3 years ago (cant remember) and the door has not had a single issue since then

 

[Swanny1953]

I have 3 of these lifts. The first one was installed in the lake house garage, and I had the same problem with "bird nesting" of the cables. The installer had to deal with it a couple of times early on, but he obviously found the solution as I haven't had the issue in the last 6 years. The 2 I installed in my garage expansion have worked flawlessly. I'm a big fan of these jackshaft openers, but can see where the installer would have to have experience with them.

 

[duneslider]

We have a commercial and residential door division of the company I work at and when I was buying my garage doors I asked about the jackshaft openers, I was pushed heavily not to do them. They said they have more issues with those openers than everything else combined. They said some work great and have no issues but sometimes they are super finicky and have issues. The owner of our company who started the residential door company as a teenager said he would never put them in his own garage, he's been installing doors for 30+ years. He said the commercial doors have very few issues but the residential doors can be difficult. Most commercial doors lift straight up the wall. Anyway, an installer with a lot of experience is your best bet and the door naturally wanting to fall in the beginning is helpful.

 

[Tools4Me]

I didn't read all of the previous posts, so it might have been said already, but the cables bird nest or jump off the pulley if the cables ever become slack when the garage door is in the fully open position. If the cable is never slack, bird nesting or cable jumping never occurs. There needs to always be some torsion spring tension applied to the cables. If you can't adjust the torsion spring to have a small amount of tension when the door is fully open (without the door wanting to rise by itself when fully down and unhooked from the opener) it often means you need to install a longer overall length torsion spring. A longer torsion spring will allow more revolutions of twist at the same spring rate, so it will allow the door adjustment to be more flexible in terms of having neutral rise at the bottom and still having tension on the cables left when the door is fully raised to keep the cables from loosening up and popping off the pulleys.

If one side is more likely to jump off the cable, that usually means the cables aren't under equal tension when compared to each other. When the door is fully down and shut, take your finger and flick each cable like a guitar string. Both cables should sound about the same tone if the tension is equal. If one sounds or feels more loose, that means that particular cable pulley is not positioned correctly on the shaft. Open the garage door fully. Loosen the set screw for the pulley with the loose cable only, and then rotate the pulley itself on the shaft in the direction that winds up a small amount more cable. It usually only takes a tiny adjustment. Tighten the pulley set screw again, and let the door back down. Now do the guitar string flick cable test again and see if the two sound closer to equal. Repeat until the door opens and closes square and both cables sound equal in tone.

Sometimes, instead of solving the problem you can avoid the problem by avoiding the situation where the garage door cables go slack. This can sometimes be accomplished by adjusting the "fully up door stop" that turns off the opener when the door is fully open. If you still have the needed clearance for vehicles to pass under the door, making the door stop an inch or two sooner when raised will often prevent the cables from ever becoming loose to begin with, so the problem will be avoided. That technique is more likely to help with cables that bird nest though. When cables jump completely off the pulley that's an indication of excessively loose cables in the door fully up position. Good luck.

 

[kinggsxr]

Thanks for the additional suggestions. I did have another 2 installers come out to check out the issue and both of them mentioned that it could also be an issue with the logic board on the opener. Currently its not going through the full range of motion when the button is pressed. Its odd that they both seemed to think the pusher springs were not needed or would not help the issue.

I am currently waiting for my main installer to come back and re-do everything and I will be sure to show him the many suggestions listed on this thread.

I also put in a claim with Liftmaster in case there is an issue with the unit. I am still under the 1 year warranty period but running out of time on that so if I can get a replacement unit or board, at this point it wouldn't hurt to throw it in.

 

[firebirdparts]

All the opener does is turn that shaft. It's pretty obvious to anybody with an ounce of sense what has to happen if you force that shaft to turn. I know the opener is now malfunctioning, but I mean anybody in about 5 minutes should understand the unspooling problem. The unspooling problem is caused by the nature of the universe.

Every door is unique in terms of drag, areas in the tracks where it hangs up, how far you opened it, track tilt, rubbing the building, etc. There's no precision or uniformity there. it is what it is. That style opener is simply helpless to push the door down, and it always will be.

 

[Wrench97]

All the opener does is turn that shaft. It's pretty obvious to anybody with an ounce of sense what has to happen if you force that shaft to turn. I know the opener is now malfunctioning, but I mean anybody in about 5 minutes should understand the unspooling problem. The unspooling problem is caused by the nature of the universe.

Every door is unique in terms of drag, areas in the tracks where it hangs up, how far you opened it, track tilt, rubbing the building, etc. There's no precision or uniformity there. it is what it is. That style opener is simply helpless to push the door down, and it always will be.

That's correct the door has to travel down under it's own weight all the opener does is unwind the spring, if you unwind the spring taking tension off the cables and the door does not move the cables come off the spool.

 

[like2wheel]

That's correct the door has to travel down under it's own weight all the opener does is unwind the spring, if you unwind the spring taking tension off the cables and the door does not move the cables come off the spool.

Agree, & I don't see how any blame can be placed on the logic board, or the opener itself.
It either turns the shaft or it doesn't.

 

[Viper98912]

Logic board on the opener? Full range of motion? Not sure what you're saying with "full range of motion", can you help explain a little further?

 

[andyvh1959]

The door has to move consistently through its full range of motion, fully closed to fully open, is what that means. If you disengage the lift, no matter what style of opener it is, you should be able to move the door with reasonable effort yourself. The springs and the cables should provide most of the lift capability on the door. The powered opener simply provides the lift power for you. ANY restriction to cause the door to bind, hang up, can cause an issue with the cables unspooling. Like said, if the cables are unspooling the first issue is inadequate tension on the cables at fully closed or fully open.

 

[PoorUB]

It has to be the door jamming in the tracks, or not wanting to roll back down on it's own. Raise the rear or the tracks as much *** you can. Make sure the tracks are square, make sure all the rollers are in god shape.

The 8500 when it lowers the door it just releases the tension on the cables. The door has to close on it's own, using gravity. It needs more gravity!

 

[andyvh1959]

Hmmm, maybe add some cable tensioner rollers? Kind of like a cam chain guide/tensioner. Something that just applies enough side load onto the cables to insure they maintain constant contact on the cable drums.