Liftmaster 8500 wiring question

[truckswede]

Hi all
I am fairly new to this forum, and even if i have been lurking around here a lot, i haven't posted much. The time has come though, when i need a bit of help from you guys. I decided to buy an opener for my garage door, and after doing a fair bit of research, i decided on a Liftmaster 8500. My garage door is 7' high and 16' wide, and the liftmaster would be suitable for the task. Now to my problem, i live in Sweden Europe, and our electrical service is 220 volts, 10 Amps. From what i understand you guys in the U.S. have 110 volts, 20 Amps. Correct so far?
This means that in order to get the Liftmaster 8500 to work, i need a transformer to get from 220 to 110v. What i would like to know, is how many watts does the Liftmaster require when in use? This is to determine the size of the transformer i need to buy. Or, would it be possible to change the transformer inside the unit to a 220 volt one? As you can understand by now, i have no clue about electrics, hence my question here. I borrowed and tried a 300 watt transformer a week ago, but no dice. It just hummed a bit and then nothing. Any help from anyone here with a bit of electrical knowledge would be very much appreciated! Thanks! Truckswede.

 

[matt_i]

I am not 100% sure but the maximum a device would be able to draw on 120vac would be either 15A or 20A and most fall under the 15A range.

So that puts you into 1800VA, I'd try for a 2kW/2KVA transformer to be safe.

 

[dave89iroc]

documentation for the 8500 shows 120v/7.5A, which comes out to be 900 watts, so I would say you need at least a transformer able to output 1000 watts 110/120v, which doesn't look to be a terribly expensive product

 

[manwithtools]

I just checked my 8500's, they state 1 amp @ 120 VAC on the name plate. I expect inrush could be quite a bit more, although they do utilize a "soft start" or ramp up in speed on starting.

I would shoot for something in the 500 VA range minimum, 1KVA would be even better. Don't forget the remote wireless light also likely wants to be powered by 120 VAC.

I'd contact Liftmaster about the possibility of 240 VAC (or in your case 220 VAC) operation.

Edit - I just saw dave89iroc's post regrading 7.5 amps from Liftmaster. That would make sense to account for inrush and to operate the solenoid lock. Given their recommendation, I'd concur that 1 KVA would be the minimum.

 

[Want2race]

With the electronics in it you need to look at the Hz as well. It may be an issue as many countries use 55hz when 240va

 

[Norcal]

Hi all
I am fairly new to this forum, and even if i have been lurking around here a lot, i haven't posted much. The time has come though, when i need a bit of help from you guys. I decided to buy an opener for my garage door, and after doing a fair bit of research, i decided on a Liftmaster 8500. My garage door is 7' high and 16' wide, and the liftmaster would be suitable for the task. Now to my problem, i live in Sweden Europe, and our electrical service is 220 volts, 10 Amps. From what i understand you guys in the U.S. have 110 volts, 20 Amps. Correct so far?
This means that in order to get the Liftmaster 8500 to work, i need a transformer to get from 220 to 110v. What i would like to know, is how many watts does the Liftmaster require when in use? This is to determine the size of the transformer i need to buy. Or, would it be possible to change the transformer inside the unit to a 220 volt one? As you can understand by now, i have no clue about electrics, hence my question here. I borrowed and tried a 300 watt transformer a week ago, but no dice. It just hummed a bit and then nothing. Any help from anyone here with a bit of electrical knowledge would be very much appreciated! Thanks! Truckswede.

I would look into getting a 240V model, and there will be a issue of Europe being 50 hertz, & North America, is 60 hertz & it's usually better to use a 50 hertz motor on 60 HZ then the reverse.

110V is a prewar voltage, long obsolete in the US, 120/240V is the standard, only place in the world where 110 volts is used is in the UK on construction sites, where 110V tools are required on construction sites, a "site transformer" is used to step down 240V to 110V & each leg is 55V.

 

[manwithtools]

With the electronics in it you need to look at the Hz as well. It may be an issue as many countries use 55hz when 240va

I think you mean 50Hz at 220 Vac. I've never heard of 55Hz unless it's being produced by a VFD. Also, most equipment will work at 50/60HZ. If anything it will move a 5/6's the speed when operating at 50Hz. I'm pretty sure the motor on the 8500's run on converted DC as they have a battery backup option - manual does say 60Hz only, I'm not sure why.

 

[aknawful]

8500 draws 1a

 

[truckswede]

Wow! Lot's of answers alredy. Thanks guys!
First of all, it seems i got it wrong with the volts. It's supposed to be 120, not 110 as i stated. My bad, sorry about that. Talked briefly with an electrician today, and he said in 99.9% of cases the 50/60 Hz thing really doesn't matter.
Hope he's right, i for sure don't have a clue. Manwithtools you are correct, we have 50 HZ at 220 Volts AC. I did actually try to contact Liftmaster via mail 12 days ago regarding this, got a mail back after a few minutes confirming they recieved my question, and was promised an answer within 2-3 workdays. Still nothing. I can buy a transformer 220-120, 1000 VA for about, in your dinero, 150 bucks. Just feeling a little frustrated because i don't know a thing about electrification stuff, and would prefer to get the facts straight with you guys before i decide. If the 1000VA unit isn't enough, the next step up is 2000VA for three times the money. Or could you point me in another direction regarding buying the right transformer? The units and prices above is when buying here in Sweden, but i'm very open to suggestions. Buying from the U.S.? eBay? Thanks again guys!

 

[manwithtools]

$150 for a 1Kva 220 - 120 transformer is high in my experience, let me see what I can find for you.

 

[dave89iroc]

$150 for a 1Kva 220 - 120 transformer is high in my experience, let me see what I can find for you.

yeah, I found a few for $40 USD, but its in the US, not sure what it would end up costing to your door

https://voltage-converter-transform...t-step-down-voltage-transformers-ce-certified

 

[truckswede]

dave89iroc, thank you for that link. I just sent them an e-mail asking for a shipping cost to Sweden. Since it's sunday, i don't expect to hear from them untill tomorrow..

 

[walta]

It has been my experience the people that make up the specifications for voltage converters are bold faced liars. The 3 I tested were only capable of providing 20% of the power claimed.

The model 8500 is not your average door operator. It is a jack shaft operator that mounts on the wall.

It also has a DC motor that should make 50 hertz operation a lot easier explains the very low 1 amp power requirement.

I would try a converter transformer rated at 600 Watt or larger.

I think it is very unlikely LiftMaster will help as you want to operate out side of the devices ratings. For reasons of liability they will not be able to help.

Also it is seems unlikely the transmitter for this unit has been submitted for approval in Sweden.

Yes I think you could make it work. But you would using an unapproved device and if there ever were a fire what do you think they will blame the fire on?

Walt

 

[Stuart in MN]

It appears LIftmaster has a 240vac version they sell in the EU market: http://euro.liftmaster.eu/produkte/lm3800tx_anfrage_en.php I didn't see any dealers in Sweden but there are several in Norway, as well as a lot of other countries in europe.

 

[wssix99]

Talked briefly with an electrician today, and he said in 99.9% of cases the 50/60 Hz thing really doesn't matter.

This is true except when you are dealing with motors. The different frequency will cause the motor in the garage door opener to run at a different speed.

Your opener could also probably develop 5/6 off the power it was designed to deliver. (I'm not sure about that - maybe someone more skilled in motor wingdings can chime in?)

You may need a power converter (that changes the frequency and voltage) instead of a simple transformer to get the thing to work. If the motor in the unit is like a VFD, I would think the differing frequency would also throw off its electronics, as well.

 

[Stuart in MN]

As mentioned yesterday, Liftmaster does sell 240vac openers in the EU market, which will be a lot simpler than trying to adapt a 120vac US version.

 

[truckswede]

walta, you're probably right about getting a response from Liftmaster. I won't hold my breath while waiting.. No response yet about shipping costs from the company in dave89iroc:s link. If the shipping cost turns out to be sensible, i think i'll go with a 2000VA unit from them. That should put me on the safe side.
And, not to forget, i'm also waiting to hear from manwithtools, even if i have recieved a bunch of good pointers already. Stuart..damn.. i wish i've seen that 220v unit before i pulled the trigger on the one i bought. Would have saved me all this hassel. Well, live and learn i guess.. And walta, you're absolutely right. I never even considered the risks when buying the 120V unit from the U.S. Not approved for use in this country, in case of overheating, fire etc. etc.
I just wanted a jack shaft model opener suitable for my garage door, never really cared for the belt or chain driven units that hangs from the ceiling. Guess i just got carried away and ordered the damned thing. Well, it's done and it's all installed, so i can't really send it back either. Guess i'll just have to go with a step down converter and keep an close eye on it in regards to overheating, and hope it works as intended. Thanks all for your input, it's much appreciated!

 

[truckswede]

Stuart, i checked just now, and it seems we have a retailer here in Sweden that carries the full Liftmaster program of products. I have tried calling and e-mailing, but no response yet. And since i already have installed the 120V U.S. version, i'm thinking the chances are slim to none that they will take it off my hands and give me a 220V version.

 

[American Locomotive]

Inside the Liftmaster 8500 is a transformer, I bet you could just order the 240v transformer and swap it in. I did some looking, and the European equivalent is the Liftmaster lm3800tx. The part number for the motor assembly is the same as the Liftmaster 8500, so the only difference must be the transformer.

 

[Blk88GT]

I can confirm that the 8500 draws 1A during use. I tested them before I installed 3 of them on a single 15A circuit. Simplified my wiring requirements immensely.

 

[manwithtools]

Inside the Liftmaster 8500 is a transformer, I bet you could just order the 240v transformer and swap it in. I did some looking, and the European equivalent is the Liftmaster lm3800tx. The part number for the motor assembly is the same as the Liftmaster 8500, so the only difference must be the transformer.

Agreed, I'd see if you can buy the European internal transformer, that's likely the only difference between it and the US model you have.

 

[truckswede]

American Locomotive, that is great news, thank you! I think i have to take my motor down and open the casing and take a closer look at things. Do you think i could order a 240V transformer from Liftmaster, or could it be available from a different place? Spend a little time googling, maybe.. Would the remote and the wall mounted opener gizmo still work as intended if i swap transformators, or would they have to be changed also? Stupid questions, i'm sure for those of you who know this stuff, but as i said earlier, this electric stuff is way out of my league. My eyes start glazing over and my head hurts just thinking about it. So please bear with me..

 

[truckswede]

And manwithtools, you were faster than me with your comment. I really apppreciate your help. guys! Thank you!

 

[American Locomotive]

American Locomotive, that is great news, thank you! I think i have to take my motor down and open the casing and take a closer look at things. Do you think i could order a 240V transformer from Liftmaster, or could it be available from a different place? Spend a little time googling, maybe.. Would the remote and the wall mounted opener gizmo still work as intended if i swap transformators, or would they have to be changed also? Stupid questions, i'm sure for those of you who know this stuff, but as i said earlier, this electric stuff is way out of my league. My eyes start glazing over and my head hurts just thinking about it. So please bear with me..

I would think you should be able to get the 240V transformer from Liftmaster Europe.

 

[truckswede]

I just went to Liftmaster Europe, and found this:
https://www.shopssl.de/epages/es122868.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es122868/Products/41C242
could this be what i need?

 

[manwithtools]

I suspect it's that part or one very similar. I'd check with Lifttmaster to be sure.

 

[American Locomotive]

It has the right output - 24 VAC, but I'm not sure if its for your machine or not.

 

[truckswede]

I just e-mailed LM Europe and asked if i could buy the 240V transformer from them, and also the part number. I don't know how much it is, but if i get a part number for it maybe i can look around a bit..seems difficult to find the part number for the 240V transformer..

 

[Stuart in MN]

Looking at the manuals and the picture of the transformer, I agree it's probably the right part but hopefully they will confirm that and sell you one. It sure seems like the easiest solution.

 

[bjcouche]

The best thing to do is replace the transformer inside, since you already purchased the 120V model. The 50/60Hz issue is not usually a problem EXCEPT when dealing with transformers. operating a 50Hz transformer on 60Hz is not much of a problem, but operating a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz can cause it to overheat (depending on the design). The transformer in your case, based on the spare part you linked to, I can read on the nameplate stating 50/60Hz, so it looks like it was designed for either.

Brian

 

[truckswede]

I got confirmation from LM Europe. The LM unit i bought is 120V operated and have been namned 8500 and is mainly intended for the North American market. It's European cousin needs 240V to wake up, and is called 3800TX.
My googling spree has led me to believe that the only difference between the two are the transformers inside them, other than that they are exactly identical.
And according to Chamberlain, (LM Europe) the transformer i need in my motor is: 041C5350-7. Input 240V and 50/60 Hz. Sounds like a winner in my book.
So once again, google is my friend..

 

[MBfreak]

Hi to all.
Fellow swede her, trying to help truckswede. OP sent me a bunch of pics. The only part that needs replacement is xf with 24 V secondary rated at appr 120 VA.
The drive motor is a DC unit.
What is not logical is that OP tried feeding the unit thru a 220/120 V xf rated at "300W" and that did not work. It should have. Maybe the unit has been hooked up to 220 V and a fuse in the XF or on the PCB has smoked.

Best regards

Ola

 

[bjcouche]

Trying to use an external step down transformer is a bad idea for this product. It uses a step down transformer to step down from mains voltage to 24Vac. From there it utilizes a RECTIFIER, (likely SCR based to get variable speed) to rectify the AC and make DC which the motor requires. The act of rectifying the AC into DC this way produces large current and voltage harmonics onto the power supply. By using a step down transformer, even rated for twice the necessary wattage, you've now changed the input impedance of the supply from very low to very high. That higher impedance, combined with the act of rectification will cause huge amounts of voltage notching. Thus, don't concentrate on why it didn't work with a small step down transformer... It's the way it's designed internally..... This opener is way more technical than just an ac motor and a switch. Change the internal transformer and you should be fine as now you will have the same opener as if you had bought the 220V one in the first place.
Brian

 

[truckswede]

Yeah, really weird. As far as i know nothing exept the input side of the 220/120 has been fed with 220V. Took opener new out of box and installed on end of spring axle exactly per instructions. Took new 220/120 unit new out of box and installed U.S. 120V prong in outlet, then plugged in other side our style plug in wall socket, all according to instructions. Flipped on switch on 220/120 unit, switch lights up, power on. Then tries to set travel on door via black button on opener, short humming, then nothing. Fuse in 220/120 still OK, but just a little humming, no action. The End. Completely clueless. But MBfreak is trying to help, sent him pictures. Happy for all the help i can get. Guess we will see..

 

[manwithtools]

Did you have the solenoid lock installed? If so, did the lock disengage before the door was trying to open?

Also, were the other safeties (photo-eyes) installed and wired? I would not expect a problem form this, just curious.

 

[truckswede]

Yes manwithtools, i had everything installed and wired per instructions before i tried to set travel limits on door. Solenoid lock never engaged, photo-eyes down by floor correctly installed too, left side steady orange light, right side steady green light. Only thing not per instructions is cable tension monitor. No room for it where it's supposed to go, supertight between cable drum, door rail and wall, so i took of moving arm on it and put it to the side thinking i could fool mikro-switch inside. Cables attached on motor though.
That's it, CTM couldn't be responsible for all this, could it?

 

[manwithtools]

The cable tension monitor has to be held open, the arm will activate the switch if the cable goes slack. If the CTM is not in the circuit in proper position, the opener will not operate.

 

[truckswede]

manwithtools, you are absolutely correct, the arm on the CTM has to be held open. Wouldn't that be the same thing as me removing it from the unit itself with the microswitch? I figuered a removed arm is the same thing as when it's positioned on the cable in regards of not touching the microswitch. Or do i think backwards? I thought in order to work properly, all the arm had to do was to not touch the switch. Please correct me if i'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time..

 

[manwithtools]

It's been a while since I installed mine so I'm going from memory. I think the tension arm switch is closed when held in it's open position and it opens if it's not in the "held open" position.

This makes it a fail safe design, if the arm breaks (or is removed) or the wires are broken, the circuit will show as open and prevent opener operation. I think you have to have that arm in it's intended position for the opener to work properly.

 

[truckswede]

OK, manwithtools, i hear you. I can't believe how something so simple can make my head hurt. Here is how i reason: When CTM is installed correctly, the arm doesn't touch the swith, (closed loop) when arm is removed, (my set up), switch still unaffected (closed loop), if cable breaks, arm snappes in and down on the switch and breaks the curcuit. Boom, door operation affected. I don't know how, if door just stops or return to (up) position, no idea. In my head opener should work just fine with CTM positioned as intended, or lying on top of motor with arm removed. In both cases, cables attached to motor and switch unaffected. And hopefully (closed loop). Do i have it all wrong?