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light on or not?

imperialman

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Greetings everyone

I'm looking for an opinion.
All things considered is lighting a theft deterrent , an invitation, or it doesn't matter?
My unattached two car garage is on the edge of my small city lot.
Though I have a security light over the service door two of the side windows of the garage doesn't receive any light.
I do have a small fluorescent light mounted inside above one of the windows that I have thought of leaving on at night as a deterrent to someone thinking of breaking in through a window. Would this light be an invitation if I left it on at night ? There are no other inside garage lights that I leave on.
Thanks
 
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tdkkart

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I would say "it depends".

As someone who normally works until the wee hours of the morning, often on my way home at 2-2:30am, I can tell you that over a period of time it's pretty easy to figure out who's lights are on "just because".

I think a light left on will indeed deter the random thief, but a serious thief will have the location scouted, not only will they know what lights are left on, they will also know what shifts your family works and when people are normally home.

IMO, these things are pretty easy to figure out unless the thief is an absolute idiot.
What's the chances, at 3am on a weeknight, that someone is working in the garage, when there are never any lights on in the house??
 

tatra

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so what is the opinion of motion sensinf lights?.........always thought that having a circuit that turned on other lights in side the house would be cool............sort of a ploy to make the thief think that someone is getting up to investigate............course again if the thief is casing the place probabaly wouldn't take long to figure out.............:headscrat
 

tdkkart

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always thought that having a circuit that turned on other lights in side the house would be cool............

Unless you live in a place like mine, between the racoons, woodchucks, ground squirrels, dogs, cats, deer etc the lights would be on more than they'd be off, and you'd soon become complacent about checking on what's making them come on.
 

ironroad 9c1

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buddy of mine always use to leave a small radio playing in in the shop for years, just barely loud enough to hear just outside the door. Thieves really don't like any kinda noise, even though they might be sure what it is.
 

nate379

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My front porch light stays on, but that is more so I can see where the house is when it's dark cause otherwise it's pitch black when it actually gets dark around here.
 

nate379

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My front porch light stays on, but that is more so I can see where the house is when it's dark cause otherwise it's pitch black when it actually gets dark around here.
I can see the lighted doorbell button 700-800ft away though.
 

Chris Adams

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Thieves come in all flavors, from the really old pro, who spends all his prison time constantly learning the ropes, to the kid next door looking for cigarettes.

The most common is the kid, or kids, in your neighborhood. Actual most common thief is your next door neighbors daughter's boyfriend.

Which means, yeah, he knows when you are home.

Most break-in’s are done by someone that is drunk, stoned, or both.

No real life 'cat burglars' who 'case' the joint and keep notes, work middle class, or even lower upper class neighborhoods.
People who want to do that much work, and are that organized, know you can make much more money with a part time day job than any thief makes.

Of course since most thieves are amateurs, they are less predictable, and more dangerous than any real 'professional' thief would ever be.


Any thief is more afraid of a homeowner with a gun than the whole police department, and with good reason. The cops, while not exactly on the thief's side, are MUCH more sympathetic, understanding and plain worried about the thief's well being.
A homeowner may fly off the handle and pot some idiot just stealing a rake, or 'borrowing' a hose.


That said, thieves don't like being seen. Period.
Noisy dog is number one deterrent. A 'pro' will know how to handle a dog, a kid will hit the house two doors down.

Best overall advice is
1. make sure everything is visible. Not the inside of the garage, but the entrances and the easy places to climb your fence, or get on the roof. Roof is a favorite place of entry, by the way.

2. Use plenty of outside light. NOBODY wants to walk across a well lit yard to commit a crime, much less carry the swag back across a well lit yard.
Most crimes take place after the bars close, after TV shuts down, so keep it well lit all night.

3. back to 1, don't let clutter, cars, bushes, landscaping, etc. give anyone dark shadows or a place to hide.

4. Reverse of 1. Don't let the thief be able to see INTO windows, and SEE the loot. Seeing something worth stealing is like showing a bright object to a Magpie. It's irresistible.

5. Harden the garage. Make it tough to break into.
Ignore guys who tell you 'nothing is theft proof'. It is true, but meaningless. If it takes skill, tools, noise or work to break in, the thief is almost for sure going to go somewhere else. If they weren’t lazy, they wouldn't be a thief, now would they?

So windows must be SECURE. Bars are always nice, but a locking bar is minimum. Mesh wire over the inside of a window stops most thieves. They don't really carry lots of tools in the real world.
A window box full of cactus has deterred many a burglar.
Doors that look as though they can be kicked in, will be kicked in.
A deadbolt is only helpful if
A. it is secured, and
B. it is SET.
Most guys never deadbolt their garage at night. Remember, Murphy's law says he will break in the one night you forget...

The garage door is easy to force open unless you have a major lock on it. A metal door is noisy to open, that is a plus.

Lights inside are only a good idea if you have BIG windows, so you MAY see the clown going through your boxes. If you only have little windows, better to keep it dark so you can see HIS flashlight, while he looks for the good stuff. In a dark garage he isn’t getting much. If you have small windows, or windows that don’t face the house, the light just makes it easier for him to find stuff. Shoplifters work in well lit stores. The light doesn’t seem to bother them…
 

kbs2244

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The cops always say to keep it lit up.
Not because a thief cannot figure out your schedule but because they just do not like the chance of being seen.
Bad guys just seem to loke the dark.
Given the choice of a garage with a light on and one without, they will go for the dark one almost every time.
Some may figure that if are willing to pay for the lights being on all the time you may be the kind that buys video systems as well.

But I would try to keep anything of real value and easily moved hidden from sight.
You probably don’t need to worry about your Bridgeport mill, but your big toolbox on wheels would be a target.
 

MR. R

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Thieves and kids out for the night are notoriously lazy when it comes to a break-in. Secure as much inside as you can, rolling stock chained down etc.. Make the bad guys work to get in, secure doors with dead bolts. Small light on inside and several good exterior lights, motion or electric eye and that should be enough to stop the less that professional bad guy. I followed these steps after an attempted break-in and have never had a problem since. Of course the three large dogs that now have access to the area around the garage/shop help.
 
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imperialman

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minnesota
Thanks for the good advice everyone.
My window(s) are not that large , but I would imagine big enough for a skinny burglar/neighbor kid to squeeze through if motivated.
My thought process with leaving a light on in the window was not so much that someone would think I was in the garage ,as the light being a deterrent to someone breaking the window and climbing inside. No burglars in our neighborhood in the 20 years I have lived here ,but I figure its just a matter of time.
 

nate379

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If they are man enough to haul that thing around they can have it! It took 3 guys to move it on my gravel driveway and I don't have any tools in it right now. Weighs around 700lbs empty.

You probably don’t need to worry about your Bridgeport mill, but your big toolbox on wheels would be a target.
 
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Torque1st

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Use a motion sensitive light up high INSIDE the garage. Use a breaker to activate it. Wire an Emergency light on the same circuit so that if the breaker is turned off there will still be a light on. The E-light is always a good safety measure.

Remember motion detectors are most sensitive to motion across their field of view.
 

scottybaccus

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If the bad guys get enough confidence, nothing will keep them out. The best way to keep them fearful is to keep them guessing. I like motion activated lighting for that, but it has it's drawbacks, too.

I have one full side of my home that is blind to me from inside. The garage placement also keeps 50% of the front, including the drive way hidden as well. Someone could approach from the blind side and access the garage, back yard and anything in the drive without me realizing it.

I added a motion activated light, just two days ago, to the front of the garage. It has a wide 240 degree detector that can see the whole area of approach to the house from the blind side. The down side is that once someone were to pass it by, they would be beyond the sensor. I really need full time lighting to keep that area apparent to neighbors and passers by. I don't want the cost of powering two big flood lights all night and my neighbors don't want a glare from across the street.

The light I purchased has a couple of bonus features. Wired through a switch, it doubles as a low light accent and a bright motion activated flood. It has a couple of timers, one controls the duration of the flood lighting on motion detection, the other runs the accent lighting. A one second toggle of the switch will override both and give me a full time flood. Normal operation, the light is left on at all times, the sun sets and a photo cell tells the light to come on in accent mode, then any motion triggers the full power flood which stays on for the selected time (1, 5 or 20 min) and then it flips back to the accent light. At a selected time after sunset (3 hr, 6 hr, sunrise) the light shuts down. Motion sensing flood stays functional through the night and is only disabled by daylight or the switch.

Best part, it was cheap. Light $33, Halogen bulbs $8, 50' 0f 14-2 copper wire $15, switch, boxes and wall plate $5 It took about 2 hours for me to pull the wire to an existing light switch, replace a 2 gang box with a 3 gang, add the switch to that circuit, cut o hole in the soffet and install the light. I spent more time adjusting it by trial and error than I did wiring it.

Here is the light:http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...Id=10053&productId=100002673&N=10000003+90401

You can also add motion sensors to existing lighting if you just want the bad guys to think someone saw them coming. My light does such strange things, they will never be sure.
 

babzog

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Yesterday, my wife rebooted her PC (running Vista) and forgot her password. She was freaked out, thinking her PC is toast. Being an IT guy, I look up how to reset Vista passwords. She had no password reset disk, so I pull an old Unix trick - use another OS to mount the drive and manually edit the password file. Took me about 5 min to clear her password and unlock the account, including the time required to download and burn a CD with the OS and required tools.

Is Vista secure? Sure, enough to keep the casual hacker out but it's no match for someone with physical access and a bit of know how.

The same applies to home security: with a few exceptions, everything you own is replaceable. Keep your insurance paid up and a reasonably good visible security system (dogs, bars, grates, etc) and you've defeated the lion's share of wannabe thieves. Don't go hog wild and spend-happy - sometimes just a "Protected By" sign is all the deterrent required (which is why it's damed near impossible to get an ADT or similar sign without paying for the system and monitoring: they know that the sign is doing most of the work).
 

ddawg16

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Mr Adams was spot on.....except for one thing...

Any thief is more afraid of a homeowner with a gun than the whole police department, and with good reason. The cops, while not exactly on the thief's side, are MUCH more sympathetic, understanding and plain worried about the thief's well being.

Cops are not sympathetic....they just have to follow the 'rules'....something the dirt bags don't....

Basically....if they don't see it, they don't want it....dirt bags are lazy....that is why they are dirt bags....so, if they have to work for it....it's not worth their effort....
 

Chris Adams

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Mr Adams was spot on.....except for one thing...



Cops are not sympathetic....they just have to follow the 'rules'....something the dirt bags don't....

Basically....if they don't see it, they don't want it....dirt bags are lazy....that is why they are dirt bags....so, if they have to work for it....it's not worth their effort....

Dang ddawg16, I just have to disagree, after you said nice things too.:(

While I know many officers that would happily 'hang em high' I know several (including a chief) who really do side with the thugs.
I mean, REALLY.

In long late night BS sessions I have heard them explain about how the guys they bust understand and have more in common with the officer than 'Joe Citizen'.
Plus the criminals understand the gold fish bowl better.
Don't even want to go into the hate sessions towards the taxpayer that I have been subjected to.
About one cop in four (of the 30-40 I know, knew, shot against (PPC) ) would have rather been busting citizens than criminals.

Any cop that wants to do well in politics scares the heck out of me.
Any cop that has a major criminal record also scares the heck out of me.

Combine the two and you have three cops I know right now...
 

ironroad 9c1

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funny thing about most criminals being lazy is false, they expend too much energy in the wrong manner , I've known some to go through the trouble of dismantleing a entire outside A.c unit to steal the copper out of it, take a hack saw and spend hours under someones car at night sawing off a converter for 75 bucks..lol it amazes me they spend all that time doing that stuff, but can't take the time to get a real job. Bad thing is now even though cat converter prices are in the crapper, they are still stealing them.lol
 

Chris Adams

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funny thing about most criminals being lazy is false, they expend too much energy in the wrong manner , I've known some to go through the trouble of dismantleing a entire outside A.c unit to steal the copper out of it, take a hack saw and spend hours under someones car at night sawing off a converter for 75 bucks..lol it amazes me they spend all that time doing that stuff, but can't take the time to get a real job. Bad thing is now even though cat converter prices are in the crapper, they are still stealing them.lol

I think you are mixing up lazy with willing to do something for instant gain.:)

Lazy is when you don't show up for work one or more days a week.
Some of the laziest guys I know work VERY hard on what holds their interest.

Crooks are 'lazy' in that they don't like to do focused or constant hard work. Burst of energy are common.


If you show a valuable item to a crook, he may work as furiously as a deranged beaver to get that valuable item.

But what he won’t do, is steady surveillance, documentation of your actions, a study of your alarm system.

He will watch for easy access.
He will be BOLD AS HELL, and walk right up and steal something.

Again, because he is lazy, if he doesn’t see something easy, he will look for something easy somewhere else.

You don’t have to be secure, you just have to be more secure than the next guy.



Also, never underestimate the 'motivational power' of Meth.
I've seen a guy work for thirty hours straight on a worthless project, doing more damage than good, with no breaks at all. When he was finished his house was ruined, his tools were broken and he was pretty badly injured. It took a cop to drag him away, though, he was still pounding on things ranting, and still had plenty of 'energy'.
 

ddawg16

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Any cop that wants to do well in politics scares the heck out of me.
Any cop that has a major criminal record also scares the heck out of me.

Chris....that would scare me too.....just how in the world does a cop with a criminal record get/keep his job? Oh wait, the chief is misguided as well....

Sounds like the stuff movies are made from.....

BTW...I guess 'lazy' is really the wrong term for meth heads....more like short sited........it's more of the "I want it now"....about as far as they can think is towards their next fix....they have no concept of what next week or next month means....
 

ket-tek

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Back to the leaving lights on or off at night topic :) I leave dusk to dawn lights on all the time. I think it is a decent deterant.

It does allow people to see the cars in the drive which might be attractive, but if it was someone that had seen my house in the daytime they saw the same cars already, they just won't have any cover at night to hide if they wanted anything in them.

My builder commented a couple times about me going 'overboard' when I came in after he hung the exterior doors and I added deadbolts and 3.5" screws with 'proper' shims to all the hinges and strike plates.

He kept saying if they want in they will get in. I DO agree, but if a door is hung with nothing but the trim nails in the brickmold (like most builders install them) it only takes 1 kick, this is gonna take 10x that, either I wake up or they will give up. It buys some time at least.

Unless it is personal or something specific I have, Is the guy gonna stand directly under a bright light and continue to kick the door, or just go to a darkened neighbor on either side that he could probally bump the door open with a strong shoulder hit?
 
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Sweet Old Bill

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Criminal planning is an oxymoron, for the most part.

It really is like the old adage: The poor man plans for Saturday night, the rich man plans for two generations ahead!
 

InPrimer

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Here's a thought, take A LOT OF PICTURES in your garage, if & when there is a theft, at least you can narrow down what was taken and prove more easily to the ins company what was missing, also do the same in your house, take a few minutes to videotape your "good stuff" for ins purposes
 
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