Light Replacement

[Fish_Stick]

Wanting to upgrade the lighting in my garage / workshop. Currently I have 8ft dual bulb T12 fixtures spread throughout the area done by the previous owners. The 8ft fixtures though are using the 110 watt bulbs which put out about 8800 lumens for each bulb (brand new of course). So for each fixture 6 inches or so by 8ft I have 17600 lumens.

I can't even find anything close with t8 since I'd need about 6 bulbs to equal that output. I have a total of 4 8ft fixtures and 2 4ft fixtures. Rewire is pretty easy through the attic space if needed. I just hate the power use of the setup (over 1K watts) and the cold startup issue with t12 but I love the light output (over 125 lumens per sq ft since the area where the garage door is has no fixtures). Garage / back shop is about 800 sq ft total but about 600 when you subtract the garage door ceiling area. I'm looking at a long term upgrade (as the bulbs burn out) not a rip everything out and replace immediately upgrade. Thanks!

 

[cybrdyke]

You have High Output (F96T12HO)lamps? How high is your ceiling?
CD

 

[Fish_Stick]

That's what's in there now. This is what I've replaced the bulbs with when they burned out http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...luorescent-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-205443/100612753

Ceilings are only 8 ft, semi finished drywall. It's a ton of light but very nice to have.

 

[American Locomotive]

I mean, they make F96T8 HO bulbs, which I'm pretty sure would be a direct retrofit into your fixtures with an accompanying ballast change.

However you're talking 86 watts/bulb vs. 110. That's only 200 watts of savings across your 8 bulbs. Depending on how much you use your shop, it'd probably take 5-10 years for that to pay for itself.

 

[Fish_Stick]

I mean, they make F96T8 HO bulbs, which I'm pretty sure would be a direct retrofit into your fixtures with an accompanying ballast change.

However you're talking 86 watts/bulb vs. 110. That's only 200 watts of savings across your 8 bulbs. Depending on how much you use your shop, it'd probably take 5-10 years for that to pay for itself.

Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I'm coming up with also that I really can't cut the power bill that much unless I switch over to led which would cost a fortune and take years to pay off. Guess until they stop making the bulbs it's best to stick with what I have.

 

[Bert_]

How many hours in a week do you use these lights? If this is a hobby shop, only being used on nights and weekends, then I see no reason to change anything. You have good lighting now so any change would have to be justified purely by energy savings. You should do the math, I bet you would be surprised how little you spend to light your shop.

PS T12 High Output in any length isn't going away anytime soon. Most lighted signs use these lamps...

Also the cold start issue has nothing to do with them being T12, almost all modern fluorescent lamps have this issue. It's due to the manufactures being pushed to put less and less mercury in their lamps. If you take a set of lamps from say the 80's, they will come on with full brightness ( no warm-up).

 

[Fish_Stick]

How many hours in a week do you use these lights? If this is a hobby shop, only being used on nights and weekends, then I see no reason to change anything. You have good lighting now so any change would have to be justified purely by energy savings. You should do the math, I bet you would be surprised how little you spend to light your shop.


Also the cold start issue has nothing to do with them being T12, almost all modern fluorescent lamps have this issue. It's due to the manufactures being pushed to put less and less mercury in their lamps. If you take a set of lamps from say the 80's, they will come on with full brightness ( no warm-up).

Bert, thanks for the info. Yeah, just a hobby shop few hours a day and more on the weekends.

PS T12 High Output in any length isn't going away anytime soon. Most lighted signs use these lamps...

This makes me feel at least better about bulb availability since I'm slightly worried about the T12's going extinct.

Interesting about the mercury content, guessing part of it also is the diameter and concentration in a T8 vs T12?

Guessing I'm just getting caught up in the energy savings of new stuff and the efficiency vs the old fixtures. Guess it makes sense for a new garage or shop to put them in but for old fixtures that are still working, guess I'll stick with what I have. Thanks!

 

[American Locomotive]

Bulbs with low mercury will generally say something like "ALTO" or "Eco-Something-Or-Other" on them.

The bulbs that have I have the most issues with are the low mercury and reduced power bulbs. For T96T12 bulbs, that would be a 60 watt bulb, for T12 4 footers, it's a 34 watt, and for T8, it's 28W bulbs.

Those bulbs are awful, and in my experience will never come up to full brightness if its cold.

 

[Fish_Stick]

I think the smaller fixtures are using the Alto come to think of it, that 4ft T12 has a real hard time coming on when it's cold. Luckily the others aren't but they do take awhile to warm up. Next investment might be a bullet heater since it's an unheated shop and I really don't do much unless I have to when it's cold out.

 

[cybrdyke]

The T12HO lamps will fire down to -20F on a normal ballast. The colder the temp, the bigger the struggle to strike. Once it fires, it will only come up to a certain brightness based on the bulb glass temperature. As the current warms the glass, it will get brighter. There is a point where there isn't enough current to get the bulb wall up to a good temperature and so it wont get fully bright at all.
At that point, you should probably go sit by the fireplace instead of working in the shop.

Incidentally, if you use the "energy savings" version of that lamp, which is a 95 watt lamp, it will only start as low as 60F, so ....pretty useless in a garage or any other unheated space.

 

[Bert_]

Energy saving lamps are a joke. They are part of the reason T12's have such a bad rep. The other half is all the crappy low ballast factor ballasts that came in residential fixures (some drive 40w lamps with as little as 25w of real power).

Both of those things will give you dim and flickery lamps. Some lamps do better in the cold than others, like your high output fixures, but good lamps and gear play a part also.
I have some F40's that will start and come up to near full brightness when the temps are in the single digits. Those are in preheat fixures though, not to many of those left around. I don't have quite as good of luck with rapid start gear.

I have seen some fixtures recently that were taking longer to warm up and were dimmer than they used to. They still worked but the ballasts were drawing significantly less than rated current, causing the dim lamps. I believe the internal capacitor was degrading, losing value. These were original fixtures from the 90's, in use nearly every day.

 

[Fish_Stick]

I wonder how many people have just upgraded like I wanted to and didn't realize all the factors everyone is listing here. Good info and saved me a couple of hundred in unnecessary upgrades. I actually just replaced an indoor fixture that the ballast was really starting to go in, one light was barely coming on and the other was about half power. Replaced it with an led and let there be light again!

 

[Bert_]

Purchases should always be justified. Looks like you have already answered these questions but for the sake of other readers, In this case is, what you have inadequate? at the end of life? or can the cost of an upgrade be recouped by the energy savings in a reasonable amount of time?

I bet a lot of sales in general are the result of buying on impulse rather than justification. But hey, everybody wants the latest and greatest right?
Thats not to say it's never OK to splurge on something. I just think it should be thought through at least. Weigh your options, ya know.