Light Switch Wiring

[Hillyard]

I bought a house about 4 years ago and put a lot of work into it. One thing that has always bothered me is how the kitchen and dining room area lights go on and off.

If you walk in from the front door and enter through the dining room you flip the dining room light on so you can see. Then when you get to the kitchen and try to turn on the kitchen light, the light fixture doesn't turn on. It's really annoying.

To give you an idea of how the circuit works, here is an example:
From Kitchen:
Kitchen Light - On
Dining Room Light - On

From Dining Room:
Dining Room Light - Off
Flip it on and it turns off the Kitchen Light which is nice.

I would like to get the 3 way switch on it's own system and the regular switch to where it just turns the kitchen light on and off. I don't know if this is possible without rewiring or not but figured I would ask you guys.

Kitchen side I have a 3 way switch and a regular switch.
I can get the 3 way to work just fine by itself. I have included some pictures to give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about.

Dining room side is a 3 way switch also.

In the pictures you can see the previous owner has the white traveler wire grounding. Is this even safe to do?

Has anybody seen this kind of wiring before or what it's called?

 

[frunkslammer]

That whole installation is messed up.

If you can, turn the power off from the breaker, remove the switches and show me what wires you have. It's hard to tell, and I don't care how they are connected to the switches, because it's all wrong.

I just need to know what you have in that box. Obviously a 3wire for the 3way switch.. but do you actually have constant power in the box? If you can show me what wires are in the box, I can tell you how to connect them to make it work.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That whole installation is messed up.

If you can, turn the power off from the breaker, remove the switches and show me what wires you have. It's hard to tell, and I don't care how they are connected to the switches, because it's all wrong.

I just need to know what you have in that box. Obviously a 3wire for the 3way switch.. but do you actually have constant power in the box? If you can show me what wires are in the box, I can tell you how to connect them to make it work.

^^ agreed!

OP- first thing u need to do is figure out which wire is constantly hot. Next, u need to figure out which 3-way switch feeds the fixture and which 3-way should get the constant power.

Hopefully, the 3-way that should get the constant power is in the same box as the single switch. There's several ways to wire a 3-way circuit so u need to figure out which way the circuit in your house has been wired.

The reason the kitchen light gets turned off by the 3-way is because its pulling power from the 3-way circuit.

below are 2 examples:

 

[Hillyard]

That whole installation is messed up.

If you can, turn the power off from the breaker, remove the switches and show me what wires you have. It's hard to tell, and I don't care how they are connected to the switches, because it's all wrong.

I just need to know what you have in that box. Obviously a 3wire for the 3way switch.. but do you actually have constant power in the box? If you can show me what wires are in the box, I can tell you how to connect them to make it work.

Okay, in the kitchen double gang box I have a 3 way and a single switch.

I have 2 sets of 14/3 running into the box from the top.
I believe the white wire is constantly hot for the 3 way switch. I can take my test light and touch a red or black wire and it lights up.

The light fixture in the kitchen has red/white/black going to it. Black and red are tied together and the white is solo.

In the Dining room - It's in a 4 gang box and some of the wires are split but the 3 way is wired with a RED/BLACK/WHITE

 

[pattenp]

Okay.. are my eyes going bad or does that single switch have a white wire connected to the ground screw? I don't see any bare ground wire connected to the switch bracket.

 

[Hillyard]

Okay.. are my eyes going bad or does that single switch have a white wire connected to the ground screw? I don't see any bare ground wire connected to the switch bracket.

It does. The gangbox is grounded, you just can't see it in the picture.

 

[Hillyard]

^^ agreed!

OP- first thing u need to do is figure out which wire is constantly hot. Next, u need to figure out which 3-way switch feeds the fixture and which 3-way should get the constant power.

Hopefully, the 3-way that should get the constant power is in the same box as the single switch. There's several ways to wire a 3-way circuit so u need to figure out which way the circuit in your house has been wired.

The reason the kitchen light gets turned off by the 3-way is because its pulling power from the 3-way circuit.

below are 2 examples:

Luckily the single switch and the 3 way switch are in the same box.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It does. The gangbox is grounded, you just can't see it in the picture.

What doe the other end of the white wire connect to?

Luckily the single switch and the 3 way switch are in the same box.

Thats of no consequence unless the constant hot comes into this box and then youre in good shape!

 

[landyacht]

In the kitchen light, it sounds like you only have a 14/3 if you separate the red and black, do they both have constant power? In theory one should be switched (usually red), and one should be hot all the time (black). If you separate them, does it change the operation of the rest of the confusion?

 

[Hillyard]

In the kitchen light, it sounds like you only have a 14/3 if you separate the red and black, do they both have constant power? In theory one should be switched (usually red), and one should be hot all the time (black). If you separate them, does it change the operation of the rest of the confusion?

Landyacht, you're correct. I only have one 14/3 that has a hot in it.

I believe only the black wire has a constant hot but I will need to verify.

I can get the 3 way switch to work how it should and will do some more poking around when time allows.

 

[Hillyard]

Well after fiddling with this some more today. I can confirm the white wire coming in is a constant hot on the 3 way light switch. I can't get the single pole light switch to operate on it's own because I don't have a neutral. I'm assuming the fixture is getting power first. It's a hanging light fixture and don't want to mess with taking it down.

I'm guessing the only way to get power to this lamp is to run a new wire to the light fixture and make the switch an end of the run single pole switch. I hate to waste a breaker spot on it but it looks like I have plenty and I'm adding some direct wired outlets in the garage anyway.

Just thought I would give and update. Thanks to everyone who helped!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well after fiddling with this some more today. I can confirm the white wire coming in is a constant hot on the 3 way light switch. I can't get the single pole light switch to operate on it's own because I don't have a neutral. I'm assuming the fixture is getting power first. It's a hanging light fixture and don't want to mess with taking it down.

I'm guessing the only way to get power to this lamp is to run a new wire to the light fixture and make the switch an end of the run single pole switch. I hate to waste a breaker spot on it but it looks like I have plenty and I'm adding some direct wired outlets in the garage anyway.

Just thought I would give and update. Thanks to everyone who helped!

A regular light switch doesnt need a neutral to operate. What it needs is a constant hot.

It sounds like this box does NOT have a constant hot, independent of the 3-way light circuit. The traveler wires on a 3-way circuit wont ALWAYS be hot. The only wire thats always hot on a 3-way circuit is the one attached to the common terminal(black screw) on ONE of the switches. The other common terminal connects to the fixture.

U said u have 2 14/3 wires coming into the box. Can u take a pic of the inside of the box showing which cable has the wire connected to the common screw and which cable has the wires for the single pole switch?

To figure this out, u will probably have to take the fixture down to figure out which wire is feeding it.

 

[Hillyard]

A regular light switch doesnt need a neutral to operate. What it needs is a constant hot.

It sounds like this box does NOT have a constant hot, independent of the 3-way light circuit. The traveler wires on a 3-way circuit wont ALWAYS be hot. The only wire thats always hot on a 3-way circuit is the one attached to the common terminal(black screw) on ONE of the switches. The other common terminal connects to the fixture.

U said u have 2 14/3 wires coming into the box. Can u take a pic of the inside of the box showing which cable has the wire connected to the common screw and which cable has the wires for the single pole switch?

To figure this out, u will probably have to take the fixture down to figure out which wire is feeding it.

You're absolutely right, it's not a constant hot.