Lighting and CLF

[veno]

as I recall, I had some left over 16ga 3"X3" angle. perhaps it was 4"x4".. I used it to make a bracket that I used to mount to the purlins I secured it with 2 screws and then bent it parallel to the floor... then mounted the box to that

 

[havi]

Subscribing!

 

[Dan5602896]

Here are some pictures of my garage using the CF bulb. These are 100 watt, day light bulbs. I used Veno's numbers for lumin/sq ft and came up with 16 bulbs in the main 2 bays. There are 3 in the bay with the loft over head. I should have put 2 more in this third bay closer to the door. There are 2 in the loft.

I'll do these in series so that everyone gets a perspective of day vs night.

Picture 006 is the garage. It is 34 X 24 inside. There is a loft over the righthand bay, thus the lower door.

Picture 23 and 24 are around 4:15 EST no light on, doors closed.
Pictures 28 and 29 are same time, lights on.
Pictures 29 and 44 are nighttime.

I'll show a few more next post.

 

[Dan5602896]

These are a few more pictures of the lighting.

The first 2, # 30 and 37 are from the front right corner under the loft. Lights are on, day and then a night shot.

Pictures 32 and 35 are looking into the main bay (middle) from outside. Day and then night.

Pictures 39 and 40 show the main bay with the door closed.
Picture 43 is of the loft at night, obviously the lights are off.

All pictures are with the garage temp set at 52'F.

Hope this helps those considering their lighting.

 

[veno]

That dont look to bad using the EL Cheap o CFL's Good JOB man... I'm impressed...

 

[cdenton]

Am I missing something here? It seems that the pricing per lumen is actually not all that good. You're getting about 3000 lumens for $25 or so (.008cper lumen). You could buy a 4 lamp commercial troffer for about $45 and 3200 lumen bulbs for $2 each 12,800 lumens for $53 (.004c per lumen)
Also, based on what I have read most recommend around 100 lumens/sqft which proposed installations fall well short of here.
Not trying to stir things up, just trying to see where I am off.
Thanks
Chris

 

[rbarry]

What is the name of the company that makes the light fixture? Is there a link? Thanks.

 

[Dan5602896]

Am I missing something here? It seems that the pricing per lumen is actually not all that good. You're getting about 3000 lumens for $25 or so (.008cper lumen). You could buy a 4 lamp commercial troffer for about $45 and 3200 lumen bulbs for $2 each 12,800 lumens for $53 (.004c per lumen)
Also, based on what I have read most recommend around 100 lumens/sqft which proposed installations fall well short of here.
Not trying to stir things up, just trying to see where I am off.
Thanks
Chris

Actually, the bulb Veno ended up using was 6670 lumens and 6500K for a 53.36 L/sq ft. $0.0057/L

Veno used 16 fixtures. Googling your suggested fixture comes up $75 to $92/fixture.

The other key is the Kelvin. In my pictures they are 6620K. My total fixture/bulb cost is about $6. My building is 10' to the top plate and 14' to the peak. I put in a total of 21 fixtures. It is plently of light.

 

[cdenton]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_163642-337-...troffer&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=troffer
39.99

Is your fixture per bulb including the bulb? It seemed to me that most of the bulbs were in the $25 range.

You can get 6000k t8's if you like that color.

 

[Dan5602896]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_163642-337-...troffer&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=troffer
39.99

Is your fixture per bulb including the bulb? It seemed to me that most of the bulbs were in the $25 range.

You can get 6000k t8's if you like that color.

I googled "commercial troffer" as that is what was suggested. At other lighting threads, good fixtures with ballasts that willl last tend to be more than what was quoted.

If you are asking regarding Veno's fixtures, the cost mentioned was what he paid. For my garage, I was able to get away with the simple single bulb fixture (about $2.50), no need for a reflector and the bulb ($3.30 each) in packs of 8. Bought at Lowes.

 

[gearheads78]

Bringing this back from the dead. I copied this exact setup using 16 105w CFL in a 42 x 50 building. I just got them fired up and I love the light but I am having a problem with the breakers buzzing. I am being told you may have to allow for much more amperage in your circuits. I was wondering if anyone else has had the same issue?

details here
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1568430&posted=1#post1568430

 

[Abington]

Bumping this old thread because I did the exact same thing in my 3 bay garage, about 12 lights in the same porcelain mounts, sans reflectors, works perfect. About 2 or 3 minutes to full brightness, but I don't mind. One advantage of the multiple light approach, in my opinion, is there are less shadow areas.

 

[veno]

I got a email about this thread.... just thought I would update everyone about my experiances with my choices .....


NO Regrets at all.... these rock.... and still rock.. I have yet to replace a bulb.. ( now watch I will have to replace )...


They still shine, and still every time some one new comes over they comment about the lighting and how bright it is....

Only complaint would be winter.. they take a few min. to warm up... not a issue with me...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Bringing this back from the dead. I copied this exact setup using 16 105w CFL in a 42 x 50 building. I just got them fired up and I love the light but I am having a problem with the breakers buzzing. I am being told you may have to allow for much more amperage in your circuits. I was wondering if anyone else has had the same issue?

details here
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1568430&posted=1#post1568430

It sounds like you may need to split up the circuits. You don't say how many circuits the 16 lights are on. If they are all on one, then you are nearing the 80% max allowed on a lighting circuit, based on wattage alone. Given the power factor issue with these lights, I would split the circuit in half and see what happens, I'll bet the buzzing goes away.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I got a email about this thread.... just thought I would update everyone about my experiances with my choices .....


NO Regrets at all.... these rock.... and still rock.. I have yet to replace a bulb.. ( now watch I will have to replace )...


They still shine, and still every time some one new comes over they comment about the lighting and how bright it is....

Only complaint would be winter.. they take a few min. to warm up... not a issue with me...

Glad this has worked so well for you. I was the first to say you would not like it, but I was wrong. The power factor issue pointed out by mrb is an issue in wiring these lights, but its just a matter of realizing this and not loading the circuits too heavily.

I make a point of posting this thread's link whenever someone asks about CFL's in a large shop.

Charles

 

[veno]

Charles.. Hi ya buddy.... nice of you to chime in.... I have a buzz only when I have all 16 lights running... I am maxed out @ the 80% on a 20 amp circuit (14.8 amps)... If I were to split 8 off on another 20 amp circuit I am sure the Buzz would disappear... when I employ only 12 of the lights no buzz ..

Thanks for posting the link to other threads... I did quite a bit of research before selecting the CFL light, most of the research was done on this site as to lumens persqft, reflective light, etc... this is a great site and you regulars rock...

thanks to ya"ll on GJ...

Veno.

 

[bobscars]

Have enjoyed reading about the CFL projects you have made to work in your shop. Just a note to let you know what we tried in our worship building(church building).
We have replaced our lighting in our worship area with new fixtures, 15 fixtures with 6 lamps in each. The fixtures came with 40 watt incandescent(5 years ago), not enough lumens and most of the heat made the air conditioners work harder. Not considering the extra demand load on our meter. So we switched to the CFLs and at that time got the biggest that SAMs had. Dont remember the wattage, but the light output was greater than the 40 watters. The only odd thing we have noticed was the lights(CFLs) are either green tint or orange tint, so we swapped them around to even the colors out, most have never noticed the colors. Just thought you might want to check your lamps out for colors, we havent checked the Kelvins. Building is nice and cool, and the light output is much better than before. Thanks for listening. Bob P

 

[bobscars]

Some local poultry farmers tried the CFLs to reduce their electrical loads and reduce the heat in the houses. They also tried to increase the lumens in some areas be installing a "TEE" in the fixture to allow installation of two CFLs at each location. Some of these Tees have a string to allow the fixture to switch off one of the lights. Might be handy to have a few TEEs in areas needing additional lumens. Bob P

 

[Nighttrain]

I just finished installing 22 CFL's in my 40x60. 10 on one circuit and 12 on the other. I get a poping on the switch with the 12 lights when I turn it on. Only happens once in a while and not every time. I and going to add a circuit and reduce the 12 down to 10 and 2. The one with 2 will end up having a couple 8' lights for the loft. Take a look at my build to see.

Thanks to Veno for leading me this direction. I could not be happier with the light I get from these,

 

[Highbeam]

May consider using a higher quality switch too. At least check out your connections.

 

[Nighttrain]

May consider using a higher quality switch too. At least check out your connections.

Will do that first! Thanks

 

[gearheads78]

It sounds like you may need to split up the circuits. You don't say how many circuits the 16 lights are on. If they are all on one, then you are nearing the 80% max allowed on a lighting circuit, based on wattage alone. Given the power factor issue with these lights, I would split the circuit in half and see what happens, I'll bet the buzzing goes away.

Charles

I have learned to turn on the radio and just live with it. Mine are on 2 20a breakers (8 each) If I unscrew 1/2 the bulbs the buzz goes away. I have had lots of comment on how bright it is in there. This was when I was still waiting on my last three bulbs to come in off backorder.

 

[mebedave]

I have learned to turn on the radio and just live with it. Mine are on 2 20a breakers (8 each) If I unscrew 1/2 the bulbs the buzz goes away. I have had lots of comment on how bright it is in there. This was when I was still waiting on my last three bulbs to come in off backorder.

So based on what gearhead said "he unscrew half and buzz went away". So then maybe to be on the safe side 4 to 5 fixtures per breaker/switch.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have learned to turn on the radio and just live with it. Mine are on 2 20a breakers (8 each) If I unscrew 1/2 the bulbs the buzz goes away. I have had lots of comment on how bright it is in there. This was when I was still waiting on my last three bulbs to come in off backorder.

You should split up the circuits. Buzzing of the breaker is certainly not good for it. Turning up the radio is like hearing the neighbor being murdered and turning up the TV so you cannot hear it, you ARE killing that breaker.

Need to fix the problem. Might save you from problems down the road.

You don't want all lights on one circuit anyhow.

Charles

 

[gearheads78]

So based off whats gearhead said "he unscrew half and buzz went away". So then maybe to be on the safe side 4 to 5 fixtures per breaker/switch.

I would say 4 to 5 per breaker would be about right

 

[gearheads78]

You should split up the circuits. Buzzing of the breaker is certainly not good for it. Turning up the radio is like hearing the neighbor being murdered and turning up the TV so you cannot hear it, you ARE killing that breaker.

Need to fix the problem. Might save you from problems down the road.

You don't want all lights on one circuit anyhow.

Charles

There is two breakers 8 on each. When I have time I will split it to two more but its not bad. I don't turn up the radio I just turn it on. Any noise at all and you can't hear it. If the shop is 100% quiet is the only time I can hear it an I still have to be 15 ft or closer and listen for it.

 

[RonRock]

Just thought I'd chime in on this. I was trying to figure out how to light my pole barn and was pointed here. Looks like I have "Seen the light" unless there is some compelling reason to go with the 4 foot tubes I'll be going this way.

One question though. The thread was started in 09, which is forever in electronics. Has the CFL field changed since then? Are there better, more options now?

Good thread.

 

[havi]

I watched CBS This Morning and they showed the Philips ambientLED light bulb. Pretty impressive, but pretty spendy. For me, in a garage/shop, I'll stick with Veno's method.

 

[jlckmj]

I just got home from Farm and Fleet, they have a sale on the 68 watt CFL (300 watt equivalent) for $14.99 each. They are only 2700K (with 4200 lumens) but some people prefer the soft lighting over the harsher 5000K type.

They only had one left, but I stopped at the customer service desk and asked if they would give me a rain check at that price and they said yes, so I ordered another 10.

Jim

 

[Thruxton]

I just got home from Farm and Fleet, they have a sale on the 68 watt CFL (300 watt equivalent) for $14.99 each. They are only 2700K (with 4200 lumens) but some people prefer the soft lighting over the harsher 5000K type.

They only had one left, but I stopped at the customer service desk and asked if they would give me a rain check at that price and they said yes, so I ordered another 10.

Jim

I would be interested to hear what you think about the color temp when you install those. I know some object to the warmer side of the spectrum but for me it's no biggie, but I would like to hear what you think.

 

[Highbeam]

Our local Home Depot had the 300 watt equivalent CFLs for 16$ regular price. I opened the box and tlet me tell you that these things are comical. It's just like a regular sized lamp CFL but scaled up 5 times, this thing is freaking huge.

The operating temperature was down to like 20 above zero but the next size on the shelf, a 150 watt equiv for 10$, had an operating temp of 14 below zero.

I really dislike the slow slow slow warm up time of my CFL par floddlights in the recessed cans inside my home even at 65 degrees they glow purple for several minutes.

 

[Nighttrain]

I would be interested to hear what you think about the color temp when you install those. I know some object to the warmer side of the spectrum but for me it's no biggie, but I would like to hear what you think.

I tried these and did not like the color the provided. My ceiling is 16' and it just did not work for me. I ended up with a 105w CFL and man they are bright. Pictures in my build.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Our local Home Depot had the 300 watt equivalent CFLs for 16$ regular price. I opened the box and tlet me tell you that these things are comical. It's just like a regular sized lamp CFL but scaled up 5 times, this thing is freaking huge.

The operating temperature was down to like 20 above zero but the next size on the shelf, a 150 watt equiv for 10$, had an operating temp of 14 below zero.

I really dislike the slow slow slow warm up time of my CFL par floddlights in the recessed cans inside my home even at 65 degrees they glow purple for several minutes.

I found Westinghouse brand at Fleet Farm last week for 16.99 each. They are rated at 6500k spectrum, 4200 lumens and 250w equivalent. The minimum start up temp is -18* F. This was important to me since it would really blow to not have the lights come on when you need them. Home Depot had a pretty close match to this, other than minimum start up temp was 14* F.

I bought 4 bulbs to try. I think they will work pretty well for the price.

 

[Garage-Art]

This answered my question about how to light up my shop.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I have 8 of 18 fixtures hanging now with the Westinghouse 68W bulbs. I am waiting for the rest to come in. I've never had a place with too much light, but this should work ok once they are all installed. We'll see if there any shadows cast. I hate that.

 

[kenners]

Anybody have any input on lighting with CFL bulbs versus lighting with CFL bulbs with the reflectors ?

I've jumped on the bandwagon and put the white ceramic fixtures in my shop along with CFL bulbs.

I am working on changing the lighting in a 30' X 30' section in my shed/shop.

In one bay I've put in 3 rows, 6 bulbs per row, each fixture is 30" in from each truss.

Trusses are about 10' apart, which leaves roughly 5' between fixtures.

The bulbs I presently have are from Costco, 18 watt which are 75 watt equivalent and are 6500K.

The lighting for the one bay which is about 15' X 30' is not bad, but wonder if the reflectors that veno used would help with directing light ?

The bottom of my trusses are around 11.5' and the lights are mounted just below the 2X6 that supports the sheet metal roof. The third row - middle of shop is mounted at 11.5' level.

Thanks for any information.

 

[Dan5602896]

In my garage as seen in this posting, I have 14' to the peak. But as you can see, it is a finished interior that is all white. Thus all the light is reflected down. I would think reflectors are needed is you have open space above the fictures.

My garage is using 100 watt bulbs of 5600K.

 

[veno]

I got a PM asking about the reflectors I used... sadly the Co no longer stocks/carries the reflector....

However.. Had I seen these prior I would have used them to the ones I selected...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...googlebase-_-D27X-_-202065246&locStoreNum=577

having the ability to hard wire and have them hang naturally... I thing would be a real plus...

Adjustable Lamp Head : No
Adjustable hanging length : Yes
Assembled Depth (in.) : 16 in
Assembled Height (in.) : 8.75 in
Assembled Width (in.) : 16 in
CSA Listed : No
Collection Name : N/A
Color/Finish Family : Satin Nickel/Chrome
ETL Listed : No
Energy Star Compliant : No
Exterior Lighting Product Type : Pendant
Fixture Material : Steel
Fixture depth (in.) : 16
Fixture height (in.) : 8.75
Fixture width (in.) : 16
Hardwired or Plug-In : Hardwired
Item Package Type : Plastic Container
Lamp Style : Pendant
Manufacturer Warranty : 5 years limited
Maximum Bulb Wattage : 100 W
Maximum Hanging Length (in.) : 78
Number of Bulbs Required : 1
Pendant Type : Large Pendant
Product Weight (lb.) : 2.88 lb
Recommended bulb type : A
Returnable : 90-Day
Shade Included : Yes
UL Listed : 1-UL Listed
Uplight/Downlight : Downlight
Wattage (watts) : 100 W

 

[kenners]

I found a similar reflector from Amazon.
I would link it here, but it links to the order page when I purchased.
Amazon - I put "metal light reflector" in search window, result = Designers Edge L-1710 12-Inch Indoor One-Light Downward Farm Light Fixture, Powder Coated

 

[BJ42LX]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E8X4L0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I found a similar reflector from Amazon.
I would link it here, but it links to the order page when I purchased.
Amazon - I put "metal light reflector" in search window, result = Designers Edge L-1710 12-Inch Indoor One-Light Downward Farm Light Fixture, Powder Coated