Lighting and CLF

[veno]

I installed 20 of these reflector fixtures in June 2010 along with 105 watt CFL like Veno mentioned earlier from 1000 bulbs. Have not lost the first bulb and 2-1/2 years after the fact am very satisfied.

Thanks Veno for the thread!

Wish I had a Dollar for every person that found this thread and used the info....man.. I could retire! lol....

your welcome... enjoy using your head instead of following the pack...

There are still may naysayers out there... who think long tubes are the future... I see high wattage LEDs coming in the next 5 to 10 years in a e26/edison/medium base fixture...

the e26 base bulb is the most common base in the USA/ and Canada... it most likely comprises over 90% of the household fighting fixtures in both countries..

 

[jlckmj]

I just posted this on another thread, but thought I would put it here also since this is where I got the idea to do my lighting this way. (THANKS VENO)

I just installed the lights in my 24x36 yesterday. I used (10) 105 watt / 400 watt equivalent compact florescent bulbs. I have them spaced about 5 foot apart lengthwise and about 10 foot apart width wise.

Everything you see here cost me less than $200. I paid about $14 per bulb from amazon.com, (plus shipping) and the conduit, boxes, and fixtures are cheap.

The picture looks a little foggy because my brother in law and I just finished a cigar in there. But to say it is like daylight in there is not an exaggeration!

Jim

 

[LennyTheLizard]

CFL stil doesnt last as long as a T8, compare lumen output, cost, longevity and power consumption and a contemporary quadphosphur electronic ballast t8 is a long way ahead of anything but a well engineered LED fixture.
my 2c

I like this! So has anyone already done a real cost comparison.
What is total cost of ownership for each case.

1. Installations Cost + Electrical Usage + Bulb Consumption Cost for an equal light output installation.

2. Does anyone know how many lumens are put out by new 105W CFL bulb vs. 1 year later, etc. and same for T8. T8 light ouput diminish over time as well.

3. How many lumens / watt of power for CFL vs. Tube flourescent (32 watt T8 bulbs).

I will do my research just curious if someone has already. I even think we have a light meter at work that I might be able to borrow.

 

[ddawg16]

I've done the research.....

CFL - 46-75 Lum/w
T8 - 80-100

The choice of CFL vs tube is a mater of function and flexibility.

By me install recessed cans in my garage I have the flexibility of putting the light exactly where I want it. It's a lot easier to install a recessed can than it is a recessed tube fixture....

And I have the flexibility of changing the CFL's for LED's....not really an option for tubes.....yea, they may have LED tubes....but the price is HIGH.

At the end of the day...it's about function, flexibility and overall cost.

For the record....my garage has been done for 2-3 years now....I have yet to replace a CFL.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I should have been working in my shop today, but I've been crunching some numbers all day. Trying to figure out what I'm going to finish out in my shop before I run out of funds.

I built an Excel spreadsheet to compare costs. There are 2 tabs - 1st is for building materials if you're interested (metal siding / insulation), second tab is lightiing. I tried to calculate Initial investment, annual power cost, and lifetime cost over 10 years. It's really flexible, just enter your own numbers inside the BOLD GREEN boxes.

Disclaimer:
This is the first time that I have done much investigation on lights.
None of these calculations are based on real world results - only info I could find in a few hours on the 'net.
All assumptions (right or wrong) are listed in the excel file
Feel free to give constructive criticism or add your own data and re-post!

 

[bookman51]

Interesting comparison. Why did you not include t-5 or did I misread?

 

[LennyTheLizard]

Just didn't think of it. It didn't seem that very many people were using T5, and where I work we have had a pretty big problem with the ballasts going out prematurely, so I avoided. You're welcome to plug the numbers into Excel though and see how it works out!

 

[bookman51]

Just didn't think of it. It didn't seem that very many people were using T5, and where I work we have had a pretty big problem with the ballasts going out prematurely, so I avoided. You're welcome to plug the numbers into Excel though and see how it works out!

Thanks, I have talked to two electricians and three electrical supply houses in the area, and t-5 is about the only thing they are interested in recommending. I am interested in knowing what brand you have at work..so I can avoid it.

I will take a look again at your spreadsheet and see if I can find T-5 numbers to plug in for comparison. Thanks for your groundwork.

 

[Skelly]

All,

Would like your opinion on using cfl's for my home garage.

43' deep x 21' wide with 8' ceilings.

Front quarter my wife parks her jeep, other front quarter houses riding mower.
Rear half is my wood working and auto working areas.

Using these bulbs, how many do you think would be adequate?

http://1000bulbs.com/product/6052/FC65-S65.html

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Kevin

 

[jlckmj]

I think they would work fine if you use enough of them.

My main concern would be the length of the bulb, it is nearly 81/2 in. and you ad that to a screw in base and you are at 10 inches. That is sticking down quite a bit for a wood shop with 8 ft. ceilings.

Jim

 

[Kevin C]

This may not be a big factor for home usage, but businesses might care. The long term costs for the CFL look to be a bit higher than for a T8. A good part of this is since the electronic ballast is integrated into the light, your buying a new ballast every time you replace a light.

The lights are rated for at least 8000 hours. That should get you fours years of usage at 40 hours a week. Home usage life may be about half the total hours that since they get cycled more.

Per year its not a lot, but I would wince a little bit if I had to replace four or more large CFL's at once.

Also, all floressents lose output over time. At the half life point its typically a 30% drop in output. That's one advantage of lower cost bulbs (T8, T5), its less of a hit to replace them for low output and not just for total failure. Also the half life hours on a T5 and a T8 bulb is about 2x the hours of a CFL.

 

[bglad]

Just wanted to say thanks for the info. Was looking at putting up T5's or T8's but I may go this route

 

[junkman104]

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. I found another low buck idea on another thread after searching and this person like me was tired of changing tubes. Here is a picture if how he solved it simple and cheap. I will try this on one of mine to see how well it works.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

Thanks, I have talked to two electricians and three electrical supply houses in the area, and t-5 is about the only thing they are interested in recommending. I am interested in knowing what brand you have at work..so I can avoid it.

I will take a look again at your spreadsheet and see if I can find T-5 numbers to plug in for comparison. Thanks for your groundwork.

Bookman,

I don't remember the brand and I'm going to be out of town this week. But when I get back, I will find out. Most likely they are Cooper fixtures though. They frown on us taking pictures in the plant, but I'll see what I can do. We have a pretty impressive light set-up over our assembly area. You can see them lined up T5 vs. T8.

I doubt you could tell the difference with your eye, but you can tell the difference when you buy bulbs / fixtures. Also, for us when you have to get out the Genie boom and manuever over assembly equipment to fix ballasts that are less than 1 year old - NO THANK YOU!

 

[altereddezignz]

I want to bring up my initial question but i think it was overlooked..
I have a shop that is 100x50 plit up into aproximitaly 3 sections. the sections are 33x50. Each area is had 4 450 watt MH lamps without the reflectors. The bottom of the truss is about 14ft from floor and the ceiling is on a slop so the light would be approx 5 ft from actual white insulation. So tiem for math.

1 105w CFL = 420 watts = 7150 lumans $17.00 Each
http://1000bulbs.com/category/500-watt-equal-compact-fluorescents-5000K/

1 450 w MH = 400 watt lamp 50 ballast = 36000 lumans $8.00 Each
http://1000bulbs.com/product/60051/PLT-991316.html

now I have only 2 of the MH bulbs on in the 33x50 area and the bulbs run ins straight line in the 50 ft direction. There is a lot of light to work but yes you have shadows. this is producing i would say about lets say 60% of the efficiancy b/c theya re about 10 years old so about 43000 lumans.
To match this with the CFL bulbs i would need 43000/7150=6
6 bulbs x 105 watts = 630 watts total to were i am using 900 watts not with 2 450 mh bulbs.

But if you had new bulbs and had the 72000 lumans you would need
72000/7150=10 cfl bulbs. 10b x 105w = 1050 watts 1050 watts more than you would have with the MH bulbs.

So all in all my question would be should i change over to all CFL bulbs and order 10 for each 33x50 area and get rid of the shadows some or stay with the 2 MH bulbs and just replace the bulbs.
30CFL x $17.00 = $510.00 plus the sockets. $1.49 x 30 = $44.70
$44.70 + $510.00 = 554.70. This does not include all the extra wiring??????


Any help would be greatly appreciated. Remember by light will not be directly on the ceiling. they will be on the bottom of the wooden truss that is about 5 ft from the white roll insulation.

 

[jlckmj]

altereddezignz

You are throwing out a lot of information that would be hard for the average person here to work through. If you have the MH now and they are working it would seem that they would be the cheapest solution for you because you would not have to do any rewire.

Most of the guys in this thread are starting from scratch, or needed a rewire due to other reasons, therefore, the CF's were the least cost for the most light.(at least in my situation they were)

If it were my building, I would take a section and experiment with the CF's, that is the only way you are going to know for sure.

Jim

 

[altereddezignz]

altereddezignz

You are throwing out a lot of information that would be hard for the average person here to work through. If you have the MH now and they are working it would seem that they would be the cheapest solution for you because you would not have to do any rewire.

Most of the guys in this thread are starting from scratch, or needed a rewire due to other reasons, therefore, the CF's were the least cost for the most light.(at least in my situation they were)

If it were my building, I would take a section and experiment with the CF's, that is the only way you are going to know for sure.

Jim

Yes i wanted to do this before i spent the total money on doing the whole shop for sure. I was just looking for more input other than my own.

 

[MacTexas]

I have to thank Veno for turning me on to CFL lighting for my garage. I am very happy with the results.

 

[MacTexas]

Moved some items into the garage. Really happy with my cfl lighting.

 

[altereddezignz]

altereddezignz

You are throwing out a lot of information that would be hard for the average person here to work through. If you have the MH now and they are working it would seem that they would be the cheapest solution for you because you would not have to do any rewire.

Most of the guys in this thread are starting from scratch, or needed a rewire due to other reasons, therefore, the CF's were the least cost for the most light.(at least in my situation they were)

If it were my building, I would take a section and experiment with the CF's, that is the only way you are going to know for sure.

Jim

The other reason i dont think i stated before is the fact that the MH bulbs are 14 ft off floor without reflectors to spread light. But there are shadows everywhere. Since the shop is basically split up on 3 60x35 shops. The lights run down the middle of the 60 ft span. So shadows galore lol...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Two MH lights in a 33x50 area is poor lighting. As you noted, way too much shadows. You probably need six lights in an area that size to get good coverage. I would seriously consider strip fluorescent or a good number of CFL's spread out to even the lighting out. Do it once, do it right. If you don't have the means to do anything right now, wait and save till you do.

Charles

 

[altereddezignz]

Two MH lights in a 33x50 area is poor lighting. As you noted, way too much shadows. You probably need six lights in an area that size to get good coverage. I would seriously consider strip fluorescent or a good number of CFL's spread out to even the lighting out. Do it once, do it right. If you don't have the means to do anything right now, wait and save till you do.

Charles

Did i say there were only 2 MH lights? There are 4 sorry but that is still not enough light with them being in the center. 6 would be good but the operating cost is very high on them. I would be better off with alot of the 105W CFL spread evenly over the whole area. We have 2 of the MH lights off so that only 2 run. It is indeed enough light but way to many shadows. I think if i ran even 9 of the 105W CFL in 3 runs of 3 that would be enough light and be better for shadows also.


Ill do a little math 400 W MH bulbs are about 36000 Lumans new at a price of 8$ each. 105 Watt CFL are about 7150 new at a price of $18 each.

 

[VoltageDrop]

Is everybody still happy with their CFL setups? I'm about to order lighting for my 22x30 that's going up next week and I'm stuck between 8' tubes or the 105W CFL's. The reflectors are cheap now, $106 shipped for 10 of them from here:
http://www.hardwareworld.com/Farm-Light-w12-Reflector--Part--L1710-pYB7I0L.aspx

Did anybody try out the guy who sells two of the bulbs for around $18 on Amazon? That's less than half the price for the EnergyMiser bulb but if they're not as well made then I'm out. Anywhere else I should look for a deal on these?

 

[veno]

I have 2 of them.. from a photo supply? anyway I got a pair from amazon, they work fine, another friend ordered 12 from amazon for his setup. he hasn't complained

 

[MacTexas]

Here is what I used. Really bright.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00198U6U6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[dbonne]

I am in the process of installing white tin ceiling in the shop, I have 7 250 MH and 6 175 MH installed on the rafters now. I ordered 15 68 watt cfl's 6500K and am going to install them as I get the ceiling in. I will check the lumens at floor level with the MH's and then with the CFL's and report back. I am hoping it will be all of the light without all of the power consumption. 884 watts beats 2975 watts on my power meter all day long!

 

[robertlynk]

Here is my garage lighting. A few weeks ago i shut off half of the ballasts to conserve electricity and they still put out alot of light

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74724

 

[VoltageDrop]

I have 2 of them.. from a photo supply? anyway I got a pair from amazon, they work fine, another friend ordered 12 from amazon for his setup. he hasn't complained

Veno,

Yes, these are the ones I am referring to:
LimoStudio bulb

Is 6500K too blue? There were some blueish U shape bulbs in my house when I moved in and I had to get rid of them because they were just too harsh. Maybe in a workshop it wouldn't be such a bad thing?

Edit:
After reading a review of a similar "photography" 105W CFL, I'm thinking these 85W CFLs are a better value:
Kaezi 85W bulb

A guy did a somewhat scientific test and said that 85 watter is twice as bright as the cheap 105 watter (read the long review from AFSDMS):
CowboyStudio bulb review

 

[54stude]

Is everybody still happy with their CFL setups? I'm about to order lighting for my 22x30 that's going up next week and I'm stuck between 8' tubes or the 105W CFL's.

The rear section of my garage is 24x24 with open rafter construction, and 10/12 pitch. The ceiling is drywall, and painted bright white, and I have conduit surface mounted 12 2700k 23 watt CFL bulbs on it(100 watt equiv each). They are simple $1 ceramic surface mount fixtures, with no reflectors.

I put the 23 watt bulbs in because they were $1 each after instant costco rebate, and I planned to swap them out for 45w CFL's if needed, but I can tell you I am happy with the amount of light they produce.

The only gotcha was that at the time I started them up the first time, one was bad out of the box. I went back and got a few spares for $1 each, and 6 months later all is well.

If you has 16 23w cfl's in your garage you might be ok? How many 105's were you thinking of using?

 

[jlckmj]

Is everybody still happy with their CFL setups? I'm about to order lighting for my 22x30 that's going up next week and I'm stuck between 8' tubes or the 105W CFL's.

Yes, I am still very happy with mine, and YES, I used the 105 watt CFL's from Amazon.

Jim

 

[ddawg16]

I'm also very happy....it's been...what...4-5 years now? Same bulbs......plenty of light......

The 'only' thing I'm thinking of doing is changing color....'if' I can get some bulbs to fail, I would prefer a 5000K or so color vs the 2700K warm white color.

I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile...

 

[Tazzie]

I read the post and I like the idea of the farmer lights and cfl bulbs. Looking to put up apx 20 in a 38x40 pole barn. Will the large cfl cause interference with a fm radio?

 

[MacTexas]

I read the post and I like the idea of the farmer lights and cfl bulbs. Looking to put up apx 20 in a 38x40 pole barn. Will the large cfl cause interference with a fm radio?

I have not had any problem with FM radio. With weak AM stations there is a problem but local AM is not bothered.

 

[VoltageDrop]

The rear section of my garage is 24x24 with open rafter construction, and 10/12 pitch. The ceiling is drywall, and painted bright white, and I have conduit surface mounted 12 2700k 23 watt CFL bulbs on it(100 watt equiv each). They are simple $1 ceramic surface mount fixtures, with no reflectors.

I put the 23 watt bulbs in because they were $1 each after instant costco rebate, and I planned to swap them out for 45w CFL's if needed, but I can tell you I am happy with the amount of light they produce.

The only gotcha was that at the time I started them up the first time, one was bad out of the box. I went back and got a few spares for $1 each, and 6 months later all is well.

If you has 16 23w cfl's in your garage you might be ok? How many 105's were you thinking of using?

At this point I am thinking of using 8 of the 85 watters for my 22x30x12

 

[VoltageDrop]

I saw something today that I have to post on this thread. See attached pic. It might not be very clear (taken from afar with a phone then cropped) but inside that sign are 6 rows of 4 giant CFL bulbs! They look at least as big as the 105W's in this thread. Is this common? It surprised me.

 

[laser3kw]

our company just installed similar size in our shop area. They are 400 watt equiv I think and are about a foot long.

 

[kyles974]

I just posted this on another thread, but thought I would put it here also since this is where I got the idea to do my lighting this way. (THANKS VENO)

I just installed the lights in my 24x36 yesterday. I used (10) 105 watt / 400 watt equivalent compact florescent bulbs. I have them spaced about 5 foot apart lengthwise and about 10 foot apart width wise.

Everything you see here cost me less than $200. I paid about $14 per bulb from amazon.com, (plus shipping) and the conduit, boxes, and fixtures are cheap.

The picture looks a little foggy because my brother in law and I just finished a cigar in there. But to say it is like daylight in there is not an exaggeration!

Jim

You have a link or name of thread?
Id like to read/look at it. Looked in your info and threads started ....couldnt find it.

 

[75149]

You have a link or name of thread?
Id like to read/look at it. Looked in your info and threads started ....couldnt find it.

Google image search does a great job when searching

Post #8
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203290

Post #10
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198595

Post #4
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184756

 

[bglad]

I know this is an older post and I've been considering using these lights but I had a few issues. First was that there are shadows depending where you're located under the light. Second was that the bulbs I ordered were the full spectrum daylight which were a bit intense with a 12' ceiling. I used 12" reflectors with them. Now that I'm older (60) it seems I need more light.

 

[bglad]

I would suggest reading the customer reviews on these before purchasing.