Lighting Choice; LED High Bay

[revamped]

So what do you guys think? My building is in the link below, I am running canned lighting in the loft and bar/bathroom, but I have 16ft ceilings for the rest. Everything will be rocked/white ceiling. I like the idea of 5000K brightness in the weld shop and lift bay. works out to 116Lm per watt.

I still have yet to find any lighting layouts for 16ft ceiling structures, so I am thinking one light half bay along the sides of the bay (3 lights) and one light above the weld area (rear of RV bay) and one light above the engine bay area at the front of the lift (also where the bar starts)

http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/dv-hb19lmv50k.htm

MFG part no.: ZY-H5-160W XDZ 5000K
•Led chip: LGIT 5630
•Consumption Wattage: 160 Watts
•Light Output: 18,500 Lumens
•Input Voltage: 120-277 VAC
•Control: 0-10V Dimmable
•Dimension(inch): 23.8"X17.3"X3.62"
•Lifespan: 50000 hours
•PC cover: frosted
•Power Factor: More than 99
•Certificates: DLC,cUL,UL,LIGHTING FACTS and FCC
•Can be dimmable

 

[4 FN 27]

I have a these throughout my shop:

Model # TLED528A-200

http://www.barronltg.com/resources/01_tracelite_literature/01_web-specs/tled528a.pdf

Measures 79 Foot Candles. The room in the pic below is roughly 67 x 80 x 16 high. Lights are laid out on a 5 x 5 grid pattern. Roughly 13.5 ft x 16 ft centers. Plenty of light everywhere. But on the side of the RV up against the wall you start to loose light but not enough to be a problem in my case.

I have found in a situation where you have tall light blocking objects it is more critical the placement of the lights rather than the lumens or foot candles. Doesn't matter if the sun is out if the shades are pulled if you know what I mean.

 

[cybrdyke]

4FN,
Looks real good! A great example of what you get when you dont feel the need to use the cheapest **** you can find. Plenty of fixtures, well spaced.
For those of you looking at his picture, notice these things...
no dark spots, bright spots on the floor.
Minimal "scallops" on the wall near the ceiling indicating that the fixtures are well spaced from the wall and he is getting maximum reflectance. This eliminates nearly all shadows except those directly underneath the vehicles.
No shadows on either side of the excavator or the snowmobile.
Notice the ceiling isn't dark, indicating good lumen delivery from the fixture and good reflectance from the floor.
well done.
CD

 

[4 FN 27]

4FN,
Looks real good! A great example of what you get when you dont feel the need to use the cheapest **** you can find. Plenty of fixtures, well spaced.
For those of you looking at his picture, notice these things...
no dark spots, bright spots on the floor.
Minimal "scallops" on the wall near the ceiling indicating that the fixtures are well spaced from the wall and he is getting maximum reflectance. This eliminates nearly all shadows except those directly underneath the vehicles.
No shadows on either side of the excavator or the snowmobile.
Notice the ceiling isn't dark, indicating good lumen delivery from the fixture and good reflectance from the floor.
well done.
CD

Thank you!!!

Pic was taken with a Drone my buddy was flying. I screen shot the video.

Love your signature...

 

[revamped]

4FN,
Looks real good! A great example of what you get when you dont feel the need to use the cheapest **** you can find. CD

I agree... although not with trying to use the cheapest **** I can find. Just not getting much help in the fixture or layout threads since everything in there is 12ft and lower; and when the question was asked... no real analysis was given for my particular setup. 4FN has given the best example for 16ft ceilings I can find. I am comparing the lights he used to the light I chose from Bee's. Not sure I need a lighting engineer yet... but figured if one was not busy and could lend a hand... it could save some time and money since I am on a strict budget paying cash out of my savings to do this big of a build.

Awesome example and thanks for pointing out what to look for along the walls too. I am going to border the RV with 2 on the side and one in the back which shares the same area as the weld shop. The other two will be the front of the lift and opposite side of the lift since one light will be between the RV and the lift. I think for my application since the loft is there... 5 lights of the right output is optimal. Just need to figure out which light.
Thanks

 

[cory58]

4FN,
Looks real good! A great example of what you get when you dont feel the need to use the cheapest **** you can find.

I'm planning lighting for my new garage (13' walls, 18' peak) and trying to get educated on LED fixtures.

The 4' version of the Diva fixture is rated at 25k lumens and costs $267

The 24k lumen version of the Trace-Lite costs $500.

What justifies the cost difference?

Thanks, Cory

 

[revamped]

I'm planning lighting for my new garage (13' walls, 18' peak) and trying to get educated on LED fixtures.

The 4' version of the Diva fixture is rated at 25k lumens and costs $267

The 24k lumen version of the Trace-Lite costs $500.

What justifies the cost difference?

Thanks, Cory

Pull up the referenced sheet above; seems they are built really well with heat sinks, reflectors, and lots of options

 

[jtpfarm]

I agree... although not with trying to use the cheapest **** I can find. Just not getting much help in the fixture or layout threads since everything in there is 12ft and lower; and when the question was asked... no real analysis was given for my particular setup. 4FN has given the best example for 16ft ceilings I can find. I am comparing the lights he used to the light I chose from Bee's. Not sure I need a lighting engineer yet... but figured if one was not busy and could lend a hand... it could save some time and money since I am on a strict budget paying cash out of my savings to do this big of a build.

Awesome example and thanks for pointing out what to look for along the walls too. I am going to border the RV with 2 on the side and one in the back which shares the same area as the weld shop. The other two will be the front of the lift and opposite side of the lift since one light will be between the RV and the lift. I think for my application since the loft is there... 5 lights of the right output is optimal. Just need to figure out which light.
Thanks

Attached is a picture of one of my customers shops. This style of light works well on low ceilings because it doesn't create "hot spots" of light like the high bay style fixtures do. I can help you with your layout if you like.

 

[revamped]

Attached is a picture of one of my customers shops. This style of light works well on low ceilings because it doesn't create "hot spots" of light like the high bay style fixtures do. I can help you with your layout if you like.

Thanks JTP, so looking at my shop floor layout, how many of the above Diva High Bay fixtures (5000K) would you use at 15ft and where would you put them? I am thinking 3 10ft from the front hanging at 15ft one on each side of the lift and one in the middle... then two more 1 at the front of the lift area in the right bay just above where the walk way will be in front of the bar, and one centered in the rear of the RV bay about 12 feet from the back wall to luminate the weld shop area behind where the RV parks. It takes up about 25ft of the bay.

I don't plan on hanging anything directly above the RV or the lift... wasted space. The loft and under loft areas including the walkway, bar, bath etc will have canned LED's (2700) every 4 feet

 

[azgr]

Did you end up getting these Diva Lites? I'm building 25 x 51 RV garage with flat 16' ceilings and am trying to figure out lighting. The Divas seem like a good value for the number of lumens.

I'm curious how these work as a surface mount and how they do with 16' ceilings. I'm thinking of using 12 of these, arranged in three rows of 4 lights each

 

[revamped]

I have not pulled the trigger on the lights yet. I am having a hard time using the lighting calculators to figure out if I can get enough lumen and how many luminaires I need to achieve @75fc at working surface. I have to do something soon though, roof was just finished this week and windows, doors, siding going up next week. I figure I have about a month before I have to get started wiring them up. I am undecided and have found that there is not much help out there for 16ft ceiling layouts or choice of lighting. I am trying to select from the following lights:

http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/dv-hb19lmv50k.htm

http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZY-H2-110W&CartID=1

http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZY-H5-165W&CartID=5

http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=LSS2XT8USE4803&CartID=3

http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=LHB-100&CartID=2

and for my loft, bar, bathroom, and walkway under the loft I am thinking of using these spaced every 4 feet, but may change to every 6 feet:
http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=LFC615-V2&CartID=4

 

[revamped]

Did you end up getting these Diva Lites? I'm building 25 x 51 RV garage with flat 16' ceilings and am trying to figure out lighting. The Divas seem like a good value for the number of lumens.

I'm curious how these work as a surface mount and how they do with 16' ceilings. I'm thinking of using 12 of these, arranged in three rows of 4 lights each

I am not sure about the 3 rows if you are storing an RV in there though... everything I come across shows to put them around the perimeter of the RV and not above the door if you want to not waste light. If you are using it as a multi-purpose shop, maybe just put the middle row on a separate circuit?

 

[azgr]

I am not sure about the 3 rows if you are storing an RV in there though... everything I come across shows to put them around the perimeter of the RV and not above the door if you want to not waste light. If you are using it as a multi-purpose shop, maybe just put the middle row on a separate circuit?

Thx for the comments. I'm sizing the ceiling to fit an RV, but initially I will be storing a 34' powerboat, truck, and maybe another toy or 2. The boat is about 8.5' wide and I intend to park it close to the wall to leave room to park things side by side.

If I do 3 rows of lights, I will put the center row on a separate switch in case I dont need all of the lights on.

I'm leaning towards those diva lights, but don't know how many fixtures to include. I will probably use 3 rows of 4 (12 total) or 3 rows of 5 (15 total).

My electrician and electrical supply house think that 4-5 of these lights will enough, but I want to make sure that I have plenty of light.

my wiring is going in now, so I need to figure something out within the next few days.

The diva lights can be surface mounted, correct?

 

[cybrdyke]

Azgr, light that space as if it was a normal space. If you light "around" the RV, then when the RV isn't there, it wont be properly lit. Circuit it so that when the RV is there, you dont need to have the lights over it on.
You really should have someone do a lighting layout for you so that you know it's right. Ask the manufacturer for his recommendation.
Good luck,
CD

 

[azgr]

Azgr, light that space as if it was a normal space. If you light "around" the RV, then when the RV isn't there, it wont be properly lit. Circuit it so that when the RV is there, you dont need to have the lights over it on.
You really should have someone do a lighting layout for you so that you know it's right. Ask the manufacturer for his recommendation.
Good luck,
CD

Thx. My garage layout is very simple 25' wide, 51' deep and 16' high flat ceilings. The front of the garage has a 18' wide x 14' tall door, and the rear has a 14' wide x 10' tall door, no other windows. The interior walls and ceiling will be finished in drywall and painted white or tan, this is built using wood framing on a concrete slab.

Any suggestions?

 

[revamped]

I just ordered 1 test luminaire of http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZY-H5-165W&CartID=5
before I order the other 5. The price per lumen was better than the diva, but not sure on the quality yet. Both seem comparable but for $25 less, that is $150 price difference. I still need to purchase 35 faux can luminaires and LED Wholesale has them almost $10 less per fixture.

I'll post what I figure out, but I am not comfortable getting to 700 lux with strip lighting so I am going high bay.

 

[revamped]

Thx for the comments. I'm sizing the ceiling to fit an RV, but initially I will be storing a 34' powerboat, truck, and maybe another toy or 2. The boat is about 8.5' wide and I intend to park it close to the wall to leave room to park things side by side.

If I do 3 rows of lights, I will put the center row on a separate switch in case I dont need all of the lights on.

I'm leaning towards those diva lights, but don't know how many fixtures to include. I will probably use 3 rows of 4 (12 total) or 3 rows of 5 (15 total).

My electrician and electrical supply house think that 4-5 of these lights will enough, but I want to make sure that I have plenty of light.

my wiring is going in now, so I need to figure something out within the next few days.

The diva lights can be surface mounted, correct?

AZGR, you want to be clear on which DIVA lights you are talking about. The DV-HB shows it can be surface mounted or hung. I ordered a sample of the james light to compare.

Please post pics once you have them mounted and lit so those of us with 16ft ceilings can help others in the same boat. I will post what the james light looks like.

 

[cory58]

I just ordered 1 test luminaire of http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZY-H5-165W&CartID=5
before I order the other 5.

Revamped - Definitely looking forward to your feedback on this light. In your previous post with links to multiple lights, the Westgate high bay looks interesting. I noticed that the LED is made by Phillips. Any idea if that makes a difference in quality vs the other lights? Any specific reason why you chose the James over the Westgate?

Thanks, Cory

 

[revamped]

Revamped - Definitely looking forward to your feedback on this light. In your previous post with links to multiple lights, the Westgate high bay looks interesting. I noticed that the LED is made by Phillips. Any idea if that makes a difference in quality vs the other lights? Any specific reason why you chose the James over the Westgate?

Thanks, Cory

Twice as many lumens for the same price and the light is a high bay downlight instead of a 360degree dome. I tried a similar Lithonia 20K lumen fixture in the visual lighting calculator at 16ft with a 3ft work surface in a 40x16 building and 4 of these resulted in 732 lux which is perfect for someone over 40 doing machine work... so that is where I think I will start. Just trying to decide between the Diva Light 18K lumen or the James

 

[azgr]

AZGR, you want to be clear on which DIVA lights you are talking about. The DV-HB shows it can be surface mounted or hung. I ordered a sample of the james light to compare.

Please post pics once you have them mounted and lit so those of us with 16ft ceilings can help others in the same boat. I will post what the james light looks like.

Thx. I was looking at the 13k lumen Diva lite HB fixtures, but I just realized that the Jamez fixtures are priced lower for comparable lumens.

It looks like if I use 12 13k lumen fixtures in my garage, I will have about the lumens/sq ft as 4fn. I don't know if thats theright way to look at it, but I need to make a decision soon.

 

[cory58]

Twice as many lumens for the same price and the light is a high bay downlight instead of a 360degree dome. I tried a similar Lithonia 20K lumen fixture in the visual lighting calculator at 16ft with a 3ft work surface in a 40x16 building and 4 of these resulted in 732 lux which is perfect for someone over 40 doing machine work... so that is where I think I will start. Just trying to decide between the Diva Light 18K lumen or the James

Great info. Thanks.

 

[azgr]

I just ordered 1 test luminaire of http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZY-H5-165W&CartID=5
before I order the other 5. The price per lumen was better than the diva, but not sure on the quality yet. Both seem comparable but for $25 less, that is $150 price difference. I still need to purchase 35 faux can luminaires and LED Wholesale has them almost $10 less per fixture.

I'll post what I figure out, but I am not comfortable getting to 700 lux with strip lighting so I am going high bay.

Did you ever get a chance to check out these lights? Can they be surface mounted to framing/drywall?

I still haven't ordered anything, but need to get it figured out soon.

 

[revamped]

Did you ever get a chance to check out these lights? Can they be surface mounted to framing/drywall?

I still haven't ordered anything, but need to get it figured out soon.

Should be here this week. Shows that it can be surface mount. I'm skepticalon choosing the light until I can see the beam spread at 15ft. I'm going to hang mine 1ft down to increase airflow

 

[Radix2]

Should be here this week. Shows that it can be surface mount. I'm skepticalon choosing the light until I can see the beam spread at 15ft. I'm going to hang mine 1ft down to increase airflow

Thanks for posting about this test, I am in the same boat and trying to find a good highbay light for my garage as well. I think my baseline is the lithonia IBH series, but the cost of these is very attractive and the specs look good. (80+CRI).

Which color did you go with ? 5000 or 4000k?

 

[revamped]

thanks for posting about this test, i am in the same boat and trying to find a good highbay light for my garage as well. I think my baseline is the lithonia ibh series, but the cost of these is very attractive and the specs look good. (80+cri).

Which color did you go with ? 5000 or 4000k?

5000

 

[Radix2]

I am thinking of going with 4000, but the the key thing is to see how these spread out at the 14-16 foot level and if there is glare - I can get a good looking 100fc distribution in Dialux with 12 of these in a 40x50 - would hate to have to put in 40-50+ fixtures to use the 3000-4000 lumen styles.

 

[azgr]

I am thinking of going with 4000, but the the key thing is to see how these spread out at the 14-16 foot level and if there is glare - I can get a good looking 100fc distribution in Dialux with 12 of these in a 40x50 - would hate to have to put in 40-50+ fixtures to use the 3000-4000 lumen styles.

Can you see what these would do in a 25x50 garage with drywalled/white painted walls and ceilings? I'm wondering if it might be better to use a slighter lower output light (12000 lumens instead of 20000 lumens) but use more lights. Would spread the light out more evenly around the space?

 

[Radix2]

Can you see what these would do in a 25x50 garage with drywalled/white painted walls and ceilings? I'm wondering if it might be better to use a slighter lower output light (12000 lumens instead of 20000 lumens) but use more lights. Would spread the light out more evenly around the space?

What is your ceiling height/lamp height and I will give it a shot. Also what is your goal for lumens at the workplane.

I think you are correct that the 12000 lumen will be the better choice. Or possibly even less if you are willing to go to more lights.

 

[Beal095]

Ia m in the same boat. I'm using the Visual-3D lighting interior tool to help with my lighting. Although I'm not sure what the room reflectances are for a finished drywall/painted room and epoxy floor. The Lithonia lightit suggests at the bottom, I have no idea on price, but looking for a suitable/inexpensive replacement that can be bought either at HD, Lowes, or a local supplier.

 

[azgr]

What is your ceiling height/lamp height and I will give it a shot. Also what is your goal for lumens at the workplane.

I think you are correct that the 12000 lumen will be the better choice. Or possibly even less if you are willing to go to more lights.

Thx.. My ceiling height is 16', and Ideally I would like to mount the lamp to the ceiling. The construction is wooden framed covered with drywall. the ceilings are 16' high and flat, and will be painted likely white or a light color.

I don't really know what my FC target is.. maybe around 50 or more FC at bench height..

 

[Radix2]

here are the results for the James 110W and 165 W high bay light in a 25x50 - 8 lights mounted at 16 feet, ceiling 75%, walls 82%, floor 34% reflectivity. 2.65 foot high working plane..

 

[azgr]

here are the results for the James 110W and 165 W high bay light in a 25x50 - 8 lights mounted at 16 feet, ceiling 75%, walls 82%, floor 34% reflectivity. 2.65 foot high working plane..

Thx a lot for this, very helpful. If you don't mind, could you let me know how things woukd look if I used a layout with 3 rows of lights running lengthwise? A center row of 3 fixtures, and 2 outside rows of 2 fixtures each, total of 7 fixtures. I dont know if this is simple to simulate or not, so if you don't have to do this I understand.

 

[Radix2]

Thx a lot for this, very helpful. If you don't mind, could you let me know how things woukd look if I used a layout with 3 rows of lights running lengthwise? A center row of 3 fixtures, and 2 outside rows of 2 fixtures each, total of 7 fixtures. I dont know if this is simple to simulate or not, so if you don't have to do this I understand.

So you would gave the row of 3 - then aligned with the spaces the other 4 on each side? I will try it, but pulling the lights out of the corners seems like a
Bad move.

If the object is less fixtures, 6 of the 165w in two rows is probably better.

 

[azgr]

So you would gave the row of 3 - then aligned with the spaces the other 4 on each side? I will try it, but pulling the lights out of the corners seems like a
Bad move.

If the object is less fixtures, 6 of the 165w in two rows is probably better.

I see what you are saying - I wasn't necessarily trying to reduce the # of fixtures, but I had it in my head to have 3 rows of lights for the garage with the center row of lights on a separate switch.


As I think about it more, maybe I am best off with using 8 fixtures as you laid out, and just putting them on 2 circuits of 4 fixtures each. I think I wil just use your layout with 8 fixtures and move on.

Thanks so much for your help - I will post some pics once I have this done.

 

[Radix2]

I see what you are saying - I wasn't necessarily trying to reduce the # of fixtures, but I had it in my head to have 3 rows of lights for the garage with the center row of lights on a separate switch.


As I think about it more, maybe I am best off with using 8 fixtures as you laid out, and just putting them on 2 circuits of 4 fixtures each. I think I wil just use your layout with 8 fixtures and move on.

Thanks so much for your help - I will post some pics once I have this done.

Sounds good, I assume you will be going with the 110w James high bays?

If you really wanted to go to three rows, the only way that would make sense to me would be to add 3 in the center, centered inside each set of 4, and moving the original 8 a bit closer to the walls (11 fixtures)... Or go to some much lower output fixtures and move up to a 3x6 or 3x8 grid (18 or 24!).

 

[azgr]

Sounds good, I assume you will be going with the 110w James high bays?

If you really wanted to go to three rows, the only way that would make sense to me would be to add 3 in the center, centered inside each set of 4, and moving the original 8 a bit closer to the walls (11 fixtures)... Or go to some much lower output fixtures and move up to a 3x6 or 3x8 grid (18 or 24!).

This makes sense. I might do this with the original 8 fixtures each moved a bit closer to the walls. The center fixtures could be on a separate switch from the outer fixtures, so I can turn down the # of fixtures depending on how much light I need.

Now I just need to confirm how to surface mount the fixtures and get them ordered.

 

[revamped]

Radix,
Thanks so much for doing the work on this. It really makes it easier to do a layout at 16ft. knowing what these two luminaires are capable of.

azgr,
I apologize, I have not been able to test the James fixture yet, we are pouring slab tomorrow and I spend the weekend installing anchor pots and train track so had to get my rebar and ties done. I am painting all next weekend but I will try to put a temporary cord on the james and see what its like. I will say that the instruction card that came with the light did not recommend surface mount. It recommended chain or rod mount, the chains came with it for free but the rod mount is separate. All instructions show either running flex or rod for power.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive and a reference for this type of lighting. There really wasn't anything in either of the top two sticky threads on the subject for our applications.
Revamped

 

[revamped]

here are the results for the James 110W and 165 W high bay light in a 25x50 - 8 lights mounted at 16 feet, ceiling 75%, walls 82%, floor 34% reflectivity. 2.65 foot high working plane..

Radix, is there any way you can plug the layout for 5 fixtures in a 40x40 roughly in the layout I have attached? James 165W with the same reflectance for drywall everything and lights mounted at 15ft. The RV side will have a 25ft trailer there full time, and the bar and bathroom have a loft above them, so all canned lighting up there and below. I know it is a complex layout, but if we show it as a 40x40 with the lights laid out where I put LED on the plan, I can overlay the FC and get a pretty good idea if I need to move them around or add fixtures.

Thanks for all your help

 

[Radix2]

Radix, is there any way you can plug the layout for 5 fixtures in a 40x40 roughly in the layout I have attached? James 165W with the same reflectance for drywall everything and lights mounted at 15ft. The RV side will have a 25ft trailer there full time, and the bar and bathroom have a loft above them, so all canned lighting up there and below. I know it is a complex layout, but if we show it as a 40x40 with the lights laid out where I put LED on the plan, I can overlay the FC and get a pretty good idea if I need to move them around or add fixtures.

Thanks for all your help

Since you are going to fire up that James and give us an impression (I am concerned about glare, does it look like bugs will get inside, quality, ect.)...and this is your thread, I will give it a shot.

 

[revamped]

Since you are going to fire up that James and give us an impression (I am concerned about glare, does it look like bugs will get inside, quality, ect.)...and this is your thread, I will give it a shot.

Thanks, Lol.
It really does seem to be a well made fixture and not very different from the Lithonia. Carton had a puncture in it which was right against the lens, but it didn't even scratch the lens so got lucky on that one. They really should just put one more layer of cardboard over the lens. The rest of the unit was packaged very well and the sheetmetal seems really sturdy. I should be able to walk on my slab this weekend so I will wire it up on Sunday to an extension cord and hang it at 15ft. Pics to follow
Thanks again