Lighting design from RAB

[2000xpsd]

I had rab do a lighting design for my garage. I don't know what all the numbers mean but I do know they want me to buy 18 of their 75w LEDs fixtures...at 350 a pop I don't think so. I have figure out how to do it in led tubes instead... Just thought I'd share the report for reference

 

[2000xpsd]

Page2

 

[Platonic Solid]

Thanks for sharing, but images are too small to see.

 

[soj]

Thanks for sharing, but images are too small to see.

Right, even if you enlarge them, they are not detailed enough to read.
jp

 

[2000xpsd]

sorry...try this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_8w5Bi1uW0blR0MWVXRnF4dVk/view?usp=sharing

platonic - i've read a lot of your post on lighting and would like to know what you think about this plan. after going over it i think i'm going with the james led's tube's. Clear lens, 5k, 4'-4 lamp fixtures, on the flat ceiling i was going with 6 fixtures. on the cathedral 2 in the peak and 3 in the middle of each slope. 4 bulb might be a little over kill but it's easier to take a bulb then add...but what do you think bad or good plan? also are those bulbs powered fro one end or both?? you can order the led ready fixtures both ways and i can't find how those bulbs are configured

 

[cybrdyke]

That's the wrong fixture for your space. Although it is called a "garage" fixture, it is designed for parking deck garages. The throw of the beam is more outward to cover a wider space since most parking decks are only about 8-9 feet high and all concrete. It's not really for residential garages or higher ceilings. That would exlain why they put so many of them in there.
As for the LED tubes, I highly recommend that you get frosted lenses. Bare LED's are blindingly glarey.
Good luck
CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

2000xpsd - Call shineretrofits to confirm James LED wiring. The ones I have are power from both ends, but they're the earlier 18W version and manufacturers change things all the time. I have done a layout similar to yours. I'll try and get to posting it this evening.

 

[2000xpsd]

Excellent...thanks. I did call them and found out 1) they are single pole 2) the plastic tubes are being discontinued because of heat issues 3) the led ready fixtures they offer are no ballast and non shunted, but can be pre wired ready to go with those bulbs for a couple more dollars each.

 

[Platonic Solid]

"Single pole" I assume means hot (blk) one end and neutral (wht) the other end.
OK, so the $10.50 plastic housing lamp is out, I'll have to remove that from the Lighting System Comparison spreadsheet (thanks for the heads up). Are you going for the $12.99 ZY-T8-22W1200 BINS Frosted Lens Aluminum Hsg instead then?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here's a similar garage to yours. This layout was done for GJ member **** in Wisconsin.
Interior Size: 41' x 22.75' x 10' flat ceiling section and 14' @ peak scissor truss section.

First layout image linked to full PDF detail. The rest linked to larger views.

http://svend.net/gj/****-in-wisconsin/****-in-wisconsin-layout.jpg

http://svend.net/gj/****-in-wisconsin/****-in-wisconsin-thumb.jpg

http://svend.net/gj/****-in-wisconsin/****-in-wisconsin-1-thumb.jpg

http://svend.net/gj/****-in-wisconsin/****-in-wisconsin-2-thumb.jpg

 

[cybrdyke]

"Single pole" I assume means hot (blk) one end and neutral (wht) the other end.

Odd lingo for a lamp manufacturer to use.
If I were guessing, I'd guess the opposite of what you guessed. To me, single pole would mean single ended....both black and white to one end.
But who knows.....
CD

 

[2000xpsd]

Very cool report, thanks. I noticed the foot candle values are way higher than the rab lights...what number are you usually shooting for?
Yes going with the alum tube...frosted I guess, I have a couple of clear tube LEDs in my house garage and the glare doesn't bother me but with 50 or so of them I'm not so sure.
Pretty much that is the same design I pulled out of my ***...only diff is my doors are on the end wall so don't think the gable end wall lights will help me that much...but then again I don't know what I'm doing with lights. I was thinking 3 per row and that's what I ran for wire, I can place the fixtures anywhere I want though without a problem

 

[Platonic Solid]

Odd lingo for a lamp manufacturer to use.
If I were guessing, I'd guess the opposite of what you guessed. To me, single pole would mean single ended....both black and white to one end.
But who knows.....
CD

I assume 2000xpsd is quoting the language the distributor used, which is unclear to me too.

 

[Platonic Solid]

2000xpsd - I usually shoot for 90fc at 30" workplane, but **** from Wisconsin wanted higher values. Your ceilings are higher and space is bigger so you can't follow this layout exactly. I'll take a closer look if you like as long as your not in a hurry.

 

[2000xpsd]

I assume 2000xpsd is quoting the language the distributor used, which is unclear to me too.

Single pole means powered from one end, that's what the distributor called it and I found this cutsheet from Neptune
http://www.neptunlight.com/blobs/9/99d8c6fff93ee769e73480cefbd0c955/Neptun-T8-LED-Installation-Instruction-1Pole.pdf

 

[2000xpsd]

2000xpsd - I usually shoot for 90fc at 30" workplane, but **** from Wisconsin wanted higher values. Your ceilings are higher and space is bigger so you can't follow this layout exactly. I'll take a closer look if you like as long as your not in a hurry.

I would really appreciate it if you could, I'm trying to get it right the first time so an expert opinion would be great. I'm ready to buy but I can wait...I can't insulate and rock anyways for a couple of more weeks so I have some time to play with. Let me know if you need some dimensions or any info...thanks

 

[Platonic Solid]

The posted layout says 48' x 32' x 12'. Are those accurate interior dimensions?
Need either floor to interior peak dim or slope.
Depth of flat ceiling area.
Qty, size and location of garage doors.
Any limitations or "no fixtures here" locations.

 

[2000xpsd]

The posted layout says 48' x 32' x 12'. Are those accurate interior dimensions?
Need either floor to interior peak dim or slope.
Depth of flat ceiling area.
Qty, size and location of garage doors.
Any limitations or "no fixtures here" locations.

48' long x 32' wide x 11' wall height
Front 24' has a 4/12 ceiling, back 24' is flat at 11'
2 doors on the front 32' wall...10w x 9h
Ceiling fan in the middle of the peak...don't know diameter yet but let's say 8'. 2 post lift going in the front left bay if that matters.

Thinking a little forward I already ran a extra switched circuit at the top of the front left wall just in case I needed to light up that corner a little more with a car on the lift.

 

[Platonic Solid]

...Ceiling fan in the middle of the peak...don't know diameter yet but let's say 8'. ...

Just for the record, I don't make allowances for fans in my layouts. In my opinion, lighting placement takes precedence over fan placement. If the best place for the light fixture is right where you intended to put a fan, then my recommendation is to move the fan. Choose fan size and placement based on available space after lighting layout is determined. Shadows created by fans is a whole different issue that I'm not willing to get involved with.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here's my recommendation. Click first isoplot image for PDF with fixture schedule. I had to mix F32T8 and F54T5HO strip lights due to the vaulted ceiling height. Though the fixture schedule shows Qty.8 F54T5HO 4ft fixtures, it is intended that it be Qty.4 - 8ft (92 inches actually) tandem fixtures, but I don't have any tandem F54T5HO IES strip light files.

All images linked to more info or larger views.

 

[2000xpsd]

Platonic
Thank you very much for doing that, I really appreciate it. I thought I was over lighting with my design... I was way off and very surprised with the report. But it's a good thing I'm still wiring, I will make the changes and get those parts ordered.
One question, I don't know if I missed it but what bulbs are in the design? I see 11,600 lumens so does that mean a 2,900lm bulb? Or if I go with james LEDs they are 2600lm each, does that make a big difference? ...basically I'm asking what bulb to use

 

[Platonic Solid]

Fixtures: (everything underlined is linked)

Qty. 17
Lithonia TC 2 32 120 1/4 GESB available at HD for $45 ea. (or equivalent)

Plus

Qty. 4
Lithonia TZR 2 54T5HO MVOLT 1/4 GEB10PS
or Cooper Metalux 8TSSF-254-UNV-EBT1 or 8TSNF-254-UNV-EBT1.
HD's $70 price tag for the Lithonia is hard to beat. Might want to open one and see what brand ballast is in there before buying 37 of them. I see HD sells what appears to be the exact same fixture without the "R" designation (I assume that means residential), thus TZ 2 54T5HO MVOLT 1/4 GEB10PS for $100.

Suggested Lamps:

Qty. 68
Sylvania 22026 (5000K)
5000K Fluorescent T8 Fo32/850/Xp/Eco3 available at globalindustrial.com for $2.93 each.
Might want to try local retailer since these are only sold in cases of 30.

Plus

Qty. 16
Sylvania 20949 F54T5HO 5000K $4.68 ea.
Reference linked spec sheet for accurate estimated lamp life = 40-45,000 hrs.
Might want to find something similar from a local supplier since you only need 16 and these are sold by the 40 bulb case.

 

[2000xpsd]

Got it...I will do some research on prices but I think your right with HD, plus that's a good idea checking the ballast.
I know you've mentioned you weren't doing anymore designs so once again thank you very much for making an exception and taking the time to do mine....very cool,thanks

 

[Platonic Solid]

There seems to be a fair number of people who have garages with mixed vaulted and flat ceilings. So now there are a few layouts to satisfy those also. Yours is a good example of how to deal with vaulted ceilings that start below 15ft and pitch to over 15ft height. I could have used more F32T8 fixtures in that area, but it's not cost effective.

Stick to the same color temperature lamps throughout and it will look good.

 

[2000xpsd]

Just out of curiosity...on the vaulted ceiling fixtures does the software calculate on the fixture being mounted on the flat or hung/angled level? ...I imagine the difference in small at my height and angle but was curious how it works

 

[Platonic Solid]

One question, I don't know if I missed it but what bulbs are in the design? I see 11,600 lumens so does that mean a 2,900lm bulb? Or if I go with james LEDs they are 2600lm each, does that make a big difference? ...basically I'm asking what bulb to use

As far as the James LED lamps are concerned, you'll have to wait a bit for me to do another layout an see what happens. They're a bit more of a pain cause I have to insert each LED lamp individually. I'll keep it to 90 or fewer lamps since you have to purchase them in 30 piece increments.

Current fluorescent layout cost = ~$1319
(uses piece price previously posted for bulbs and makes no allowance for minimum required carton qty.s)

James LED cost = ~$1700

 

[Platonic Solid]

Just out of curiosity...on the vaulted ceiling fixtures does the software calculate on the fixture being mounted on the flat or hung/angled level? ...I imagine the difference in small at my height and angle but was curious how it works

It works which ever way I install them. In your layout I put them angled with the ceiling pitch.

 

[2000xpsd]

Fixtures: (everything underlined is linked)

Qty. 17
Lithonia TC 2 32 120 1/4 GESB available at HD for $45 ea. (or equivalent)

Plus

Qty. 4
Lithonia TZR 2 54T5HO MVOLT 1/4 GEB10PS
or Cooper Metalux 8TSSF-254-UNV-EBT1 or 8TSNF-254-UNV-EBT1.
HD's $70 price tag for the Lithonia is hard to beat. Might want to open one and see what brand ballast is in there before buying 37 of them. I see HD sells what appears to be the exact same fixture without the "R" designation (I assume that means residential), thus TZ 2 54T5HO MVOLT 1/4 GEB10PS for $100.

Suggested Lamps:

Qty. 68
Sylvania 22026 (5000K)
5000K Fluorescent T8 Fo32/850/Xp/Eco3 available at globalindustrial.com for $2.93 each.
Might want to try local retailer since these are only sold in cases of 30.

Plus

Qty. 16
Sylvania 20949 F54T5HO 5000K $4.68 ea.
Reference linked spec sheet for accurate estimated lamp life = 40-45,000 hrs.
Might want to find something similar from a local supplier since you only need 16 and these are sold by the 40 bulb case.

Platonic
It's been a few months but I got a little side tracked in my garage project but I'm all caught up and back on track...I'm ready to order these fixtures and bulbs asap. But before I do I know how fixture and bulbs prices and sometimes even better ones pop up...my question is should I stick with these or is there a better mouse trap out there now?

 

[Wirepuller]

Platonic solid what program are you using?

 

[Platonic Solid]

All GJ layouts done in Dialux evo or Dialux 4.12

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic
It's been a few months but I got a little side tracked in my garage project but I'm all caught up and back on track...I'm ready to order these fixtures and bulbs asap. But before I do I know how fixture and bulbs prices and sometimes even better ones pop up...my question is should I stick with these or is there a better mouse trap out there now?

If you want to spend less, you could try some local hardware stores for best deals in your area or, if you are willing to spend more, you could go for LED like a blend of ZL1N and James fixtures.

 

[2000xpsd]

If you want to spend less, you could try some local hardware stores for best deals in your area or, if you are willing to spend more, you could go for LED like a blend of ZL1N and James fixtures.

I ordered the fixtures, however I'm having trouble locating those FO32/850/XP/ECO bulbs cheap...or even reasonable. Any lead on those or an alternate bulb that is good and throws the same or better amount of light?
...I've been searching for hours, there are so many bulbs out there and prices are all over the place, I have no idea what's what

 

[LS6 Tommy]

RAB makes nice stuff... Not cheap, but nice.

Tommy

 

[Platonic Solid]

Best price I see Online is $3.25 ea (linked) for the 4100K CCT.

 

[cybrdyke]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-4-ft-T8-32-Watt-Natural-Alto-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb-30-per-Case-281998/203466559

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-4-ft-T8-32-Watt-Natural-5000K-Plus-Alto-HV-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb-30-Pack-281816/204363603

and an energy saving version (28w):
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-4-ft-T8-28-Watt-Natural-5000K-Alto-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb-30-Pack-281055/204363599

 

[2000xpsd]

Cool, thanks for the links. I'll keep searching too and see what's out there.