Lighting help before framing

[Sivart321]

Thoughts on this layout/fixture combo? I want the flush look (wife prefers it too) and saw a few others do similar things.

Framing looks like this. Joists farthest from garage door are on 16" centers and the front joists are on 24" centers. All lights/joists would be run longitudinally down the garage in the 22.5' dimension. The troffers would run parallel to the length of the garage.

Proposed layout:

Edit: With Platonic's reply in the other thread it looks like the beam will interfere with the center column of lights as proposed. I would prefer to avoid the surface mount ones for consistency. I have had a hell of a time finding the surface mount ones that don't require a 2+" thick surface mount install kit. I am also wanting 5000k fixtures, which has made my search even harder.

Here is the ceiling layout with 8 lights instead of 4. This is only 72 fc.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Platonic Solid]

How about something like this:

Qty.12 1ft. x 4ft. Flat Panel LED - 40 Watt - Dimmable - DLC 4.2 Premium Approved - 5000 Lumens - 5000K - LumeGen - $33 ea. (link) - Total $396

pic linked to larger image
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Dialux PDF Report (link)
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[Sivart321]

Thanks!

It is unclear how those flush mount - it appears that specific one needs the surface mounting kit?

I found the LumeGen "Slimline Flush Mount" series that seem like they have more mounting options and can sit flush more easily, but they only come in 2x2 and 2x4 sizes and are considerably more expensive for the lumen output. Price isn't the biggest driver here, though, so I am curious if the 2x4 layout might be better. I can also span that beam given it will be flush and I would only need to get an electrical box/wire run to the center of the fixture.

Thoughts on that?

 

[tfi racing]

Depends on your climate whether you really want a flush mount fixture,there will always be vapour barrier/insulation/condensation/firestop issues to address,a few things to consider before paying a premium for cumbersome flush mount fixtures that can be a challenge to properly install.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Sivart321 - Both the LED edge lit fixtures you linked to and the one I linked to are made for recessed grid "T" suspended ceilings. You said: "... but they only come in 2x2 and 2x4 sizes ..." which is a tad confusing since the fixture I linked to is a 1x4 LumeGen flat panel sold by LightUp, same as the 2x2 and 2x4 you linked to. You'll note that they all have the same LumeGen LEDLFPN SKU number.

You have several mounting options:
1. Make a box with an internal opening dimension of exactly 12 x 48, then put a 1/2" lip that protrudes towards the interior on all four sides (for the fixture to rest on) and 1/2" or larger lips that protrude towards the exterior to cover the drywall rough-in opening. Recess box into ceiling - secure to framing - drop fixture in.

2. Buy a Drywall Grid Adaptor Kit for $33 (link)

3. Buy the LumeGen 1x4 LED Panel Surface Mount kit $24 and frame accordingly so you can recess it. Note: This method has no external lip to cover the drywall rough-in opening.

 

[Ch3No2]

I wanted the flush look as well....just head out the ceiling joists, drywall and use a trim flange for a troffer light.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Good point Ch3No2. No reason to make a box if you plan ahead accordingly.

 

[Sivart321]

Thanks all. Climate is mild in Northern California - San Jose specifically. Not much concern there.

Platonic - the differences I noted were the "slimline flush mount" ones that have no protruding box and come with a flush mounting bracket. The other lumegen ones, including the one you linked, have a box that protrudes out the back and have no included means to mount them.

This is the one I am referring to:

This is the 1x4 you mentioned - notice the box on the back and the lack of integrated/included mounting features.

I think you all have addressed the alternative mounting solutions, however. I do have the ability to head out the joists, but also want to maintain the attic space above. I will spend some time to see if I can do that. Some joists already exist and the framing you see above is the added framing to support a drywall ceiling and sufficient support for attic storage above that.

I didn't see the drywall grid adapter before. That is another cool option. Will look more in to that as well.

Ch3No2 - what trim options did you use in your install?

Thanks again!

 

[cybrdyke]

This is the one I am referring to:

That looks like (and is priced like) an board with a bunch of LED's mounted on it and not an edge-lit panel. I dont see a driver on it. Is there one?
CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

Sivart321 - The box on the back is the LED Driver. I see no box on the back in the literature of the 2x2 and 2x4. I've never seen an LED edge lit without a discrete driver. Keep in mind you will still need a junction box attached to the back of the 2x2 and 2x4. The 1x4 does not require a junction box as the driver enclosure performs that function.

 

[Sivart321]

Sivart321 - The box on the back is the LED Driver. I see no box on the back in the literature of the 2x2 and 2x4. I've never seen an LED edge lit without a discrete driver. Keep in mind you will still need a junction box attached to the back of the 2x2 and 2x4. The 1x4 does not require a junction box as the driver enclosure performs that function.

Commercial Electric makes similar panels and I have one in hand that has a driver inside the panel and is still edge lit. Panel uniformity is still good. I imagine the LumeGen is the same thing and contributes to the higher cost vs the one you suggested.

I understand the one you have suggested has the driver in the box and this other one would require a junction box. I was only mentioning this other one because it includes the flush mount installation kit and looks like it would get me a lower profile installation overall.

Your other suggestions seem more up my alley and would achieve the true goal of going totally flush. I had not seen the drywall grid adapter kits. Those look perfect and should give me a ton of options for framing while letting me use the cheaper panel you suggested.

All great advice! Thanks!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Interesting (contradictory?) statement made on Lighup site re: 2x4 Edge Lit = "Use the optional mounting kit (LEDLEDH1000036816) to secure to walls and ceilings. Comes with a surface mounting kit for easy installation."

Also the 2x4 literature states external driver (link). I am now officially confused.

 

[Sivart321]

Interesting (contradictory?) statement made on Lighup site re: 2x4 Edge Lit = "Use the optional mounting kit (LEDLEDH1000036816) to secure to walls and ceilings. Comes with a surface mounting kit for easy installation."

Also the 2x4 literature states external driver (link). I am now officially confused.

Yeah, those don't have the best or most thorough specs. I was noticing the same issues.

All I know for sure is that commercial electric sells a panel with no LED driver box on the back. This series can be directly wired to 120v. It also has a nice flush mount with a hinge/safety wire to prevent it from falling on you when you remove it. Not bad, but it only comes in 4000k.

Example:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...-Lit-Flat-Panel-Flushmount-74031-HD/206040708

The 1x1 light I bought to verify:

 

[Platonic Solid]

OK, I get it now. The flat panel edge lit fixtures that don't have a discrete driver are thicker so they could build the driver into the frame. Thanks for posting pics.

I believe the LumeGen 2x2 and 2x4 likely have internal drivers since they are over 1" thick.

The LumeGen 1x4 is only 7/16 thick.