Lighting Layout. . . I changed the thread direction. . .

[KPSquared]

EDIT ** This started as a T8 vs T5 thread but in the last 30 minutes I realized T8's are probably gonna win, so now I need to know where and how many. Any help appreciated! **

I am wiring up my shop soon and have to make a decision on lighting. I've heard really good things about T8's and read a bit about T5's. I need to decide what my best option is.

My original plan was to run 5 of something like this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/6-light-high-output-fluorescent-high-bay/944568

It's a 6 bulb T8 or T12. I would run T8's. I was under the impression the ballasts were different or is this just a "high efficiency" ballast that can run both bulbs? Anyway, they run about $119.00 each without bulbs. At say $5.00 per light, I'm looking at about $150 per unit. Total cost would be $750.

The local electrical supply has T5's, with bulbs on sale right now. $128 for 4' four bulb, and $168 for 4' 6 bulb lights. So total cost would be $640 or $840.

I'm still trying to decide if five 6 bulb lights will fill the space, but I think they will. Now I need to know if the T5's are that much better. Could I get away with 4 bulb units?

The garage inside dimensions are 28' x 34' x 12' 6".

Feel free to point me at a relevant thread if you know where one is. I'm going to keep searching now.

 

[KPSquared]

Re: T5's vs T8's

And can anyone tell my why buying like 15 of these -->CLICK HERE for less than $400 with the bulbs would be a bad idea?

I just don't understand the differences on cost on this stuff. One 6 bulb light is $120 and three 2 bulb lights are $45? Same number of ballasts, same number of bulbs, just a little more sheet metal. Am I missing something here?

 

[KPSquared]

Re: T5's vs T8's

Being as I can see this is turning into a "what kind of lights and how many" thread (of my own doing), I figured I'd post a rough sketch of my garage.

Any opinions on what needs to happen for lighting would be great. I just snapped this pic with my phone so it's a little crappy, but you get the idea. This is the start of my electrical layout. . . Still need to add lights and a couple more ceiling fans and a few other things. . .

It's a daily driver parking garage, fab shop, project shop, vehicle repair shop and pretty much anything else you can do in a garage. I want as much light as I can. There will be a big radiant tube heater down the center so can't have any lights right in the middle.

 

[KPSquared]

Here is my first though. Those lights covered by the garage doors will be above windows in the doors, so they will shine through a bit with the doors open. This is just a first attempt. Found a great deal on some 2 bulb T8's with a diamond plate housing. They would look great in the work bench area as overhead lighting so I put them in on this one.

 

[KPSquared]

Here's version 2.0 with a whole bunch of 2 bulb T8's. . . this is cheaper and and may distribute light a lot better than the big fixtures.

 

[KPSquared]

Ok, I just found a good deal on 2 Bulb T8 fixtures. I need to make sure they are what they claim to be, but if so, I'm going to pick them up Monday.

This is what they are: CLICK HERE

If anyone knows a reason these won't work PLEASE TELL ME!!! I don't know much about lighting, but a T8 is a T8, right?

The ceiling will be a high gloss white to help reflect as much light down as possible.

So here's the final layout. I think this has all my outlets on it as well. oh wait, still gotta add the 240v stuff.

 

[pipsters]

Dear God that is a lot of lights...seriously...

 

[pipsters]

Also go to Home Depot and look at their lights, different fixtures have different lumen outputs.

I bought the $20 2 tube shop lights, they come on at 5F or above IIRC, also some of the brightest available. Also how are you mounting them? FL lights can't be flush mounted, you either have to install them in the ceiling with cutouts or hang or add spacers above them.

 

[KPSquared]

Those are just my ideas. . .I'm getting a really good deal on the fixtures. They retail for $90 for a 48" and I'm paying WAY less than that but it's a lot of 24 fixtures.

I just did a drawing using all of them.

I'm going to run my numbers through that light calc software and see what it says.

Any suggestions or answers to my questions would be great.

 

[70redbee]

Run as many of the 2 bulb fixtures as you can. Put in a lot of switches, so you can turn on and off what you need for any project. In your last drawing, I would use 8 switches, lighting every other light. Sounds like a lot of switches, but why use lights that you don't need. For the lights over the benches, put each bench light on a seperate switch. In the smaller part of the garage, I would use 2 switches. Just trying to save you some money on the power bill, why turn on lights not needed? Just remember, you can never have too much light or outlets in the garage.

By the way I count 28 fixtures.

 

[jvitez]

Your 2-bulb plan of 28 fixtures works out to 1.66 watts/sq ft. Should be great for a 12.5 ft ceiling. 1.5-2 watts/sq ft of 32 watt T8 bulbs (lamps) are a good rule of thumb for a bright garage, especially if you're over 40.

8 switches might be a bit much, but 2 or 3 switches would be reasonable. You don't need to turn everything on if you're just going in to get something out a car, etc, but you're never vary things so much you'd need 8 switches. I have 3 switches in my garage, and I really only use it as 2, i.e. I always turn on 2 switches together. I hate bright lights in one area and shadows in another.

Best thing to do is to download this:

http://www.visuallightingsoftware.com/

Play with the parameters to your heart's content. It's free, easy to use, and very helpful.

 

[KPSquared]

Yes, there are 28 fixtures. 4 of them are a different style. They ones that light up the work area are fixtures from one of the DIY stores. Aluminum checker plate housing. They just look cool and will fit nice in my work bench area. I am still planning to add under cabinet lighting and some task lighting but that will have to evolve as time passes.

The plan is to run the main bay off of 2 switches, the work area (where the cabinets are) off one and the storage shed off one. The main bay will be on 3 ways and I'll have another set of switches between the garage doors so I can turn lights on and off from both ends of the shop.

Slowly coming together. Started working on the 2nd floor tonight. Still a few loose ends to tie up on the main level. Hope the deal on these lights work out. . .

I downloaded the Visual software. . . I don't know if I got the professional version or something, but it's far from "easy to use". . . I don't even know where to start. Can someone point me in the right direction? I just want to get my garage laid out and play with the lighting a bit.

The 10x12 area in the top left corner is a separate room. It's our lawn mower garage. . .

 

[srmofo]

I bought 12 twin bulb 4' fixtures for 24x36x10. (I like it bright when Im working)

However I didnt have the drywall up yet and didnt want to wast a bunch of time hanging the fixtures so I "temporarily threw up some keyway fixtures with 100w CFLs.....Im kinda kicking myself in the *** for spending the money on those 4' that I cant return to HD.

I put them on 4 rows of 3 lights with a switch at each...that was over kill also. Should have just used 2 circuits with 2 switches. I very rarely turn on just one row of lights, its either 2 rows or 4 rows....could have saved a little cash there also.

I imagine either way you go you will be fine if the lights are evenly placed throughout the shop

I started using the some of the programs listed but got bored with it, so I just bought some and said F it

 

[regguy1]

I like version 2.0 I have a similar light layout, see it in the video link below

 

[KPSquared]

Well, it's going to end up being Option #3. I got 24 fixtures as I posted above for $175. I have found them online for $90 a piece (the place I bought them from said there cost was $35. They are all brand new in the box. Right place, right time for sure.

Now to start wiring. . .

 

[ckadams00]

Seems like about 25% to 30% too many lights? I could be completely wrong.

 

[nwav8tor]

Also go to Home Depot and look at their lights, different fixtures have different lumen outputs.

I bought the $20 2 tube shop lights, they come on at 5F or above IIRC, also some of the brightest available. Also how are you mounting them? FL lights can't be flush mounted, you either have to install them in the ceiling with cutouts or hang or add spacers above them.

Inquiring minds (at least mine) want to know why FL light fixtures can't be flush mounted? Does it depend on what type of ballast is installed?

Paul

 

[Mr onetwo]

Just to let you know...I just bought some Metalux T8 4 bulb 8 footers at Lowes for $39 ea.I compared them to the Lithonia sold at HD.The HD lights had crappy chinese ballasts while the ones sold by Lowes actually had decent Sylvania electronic ballasts.Big difference in Quality IMHO! Here is the link http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

 

[KPSquared]

These have Sylvania ballasts. I have 24 of these:

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/flu...ed-fluorescent-strip-gloss-white_g588254.html


They are surface mount and have very good ballasts. I figure that to much light is better than not enough. They retail for $90 on that site. . .

Here's the info on the ballast:

BALLAST

 

[dave67fd]

I bought these. Cant beat the price. I have 10 in a 28 x 38 x 10.5
$46 ea for 8', 4 bulb T8's. Buy a case of bulbs for about $2 ea bulb. Think the bulbs even cheaper at HD.

The second pic looks abit dark but it's the camera. Much much brighter than it looks.

http://www.contractorlighting.com/8ft-lamp-watt-fluorescent-double-channel-strip-120277-p-176.html

 

[esburger]

Check these out... I bought several of them. I only have one hooked up right now just to see how bright they are. they are very nice!!! low starting temp and come with mounting hardware and bulbs!! best price that I have found.

http://www.electricalmarketplace.co...-High-Bay-5000K-Lamps-Included-P2109C317.aspx

 

[mrobins297aaa]

wow thats a lot of fixtures
I have 7 of the t8 6 bulb fixtures in my 36 x 64 barn with a 14' ceiling and its more than enough light.........they are bright

 

[RVDan]

I just bought a whole bunch of the $14.99 home depot shop lights. 4' long two bulb units. Listed for T8 or T12, so I went cheap and bought T12s, $16.99 for a box of ten.

Sure there's a lot of options, but these are so cheap I don't think you can go wrong, if I upgrade later I'm sure I can find a place for these elsewhere.

 

[KPSquared]

T12's are not worth it. Cost way more to run.

The cheap ballasts will hum and buzz and piss you off.

I've decided on my final layout. lost one row of fixtures. I'll post up the layout and then my initial switch plans. . .but they are changing soon too. Need to change a couple of switches, but other than that, this is the final plan.

 

[nwav8tor]

KPSquared,

I'm certainly not an expert, but if I'm reading your plan correctly, I only see three 20A outlets, all apparently in the ceiling which I assume would be for door openers.

With all the effort it looks like you're putting into this build, I'm surprised that ALL your outlet circuits wouldn't be 20A.

Paul

 

[KPSquared]

I guess so hey? I never really thought about it. I kinda just planned on 15amp for everything cause it will do what I need it to. I just didn't know what I was putting up for garage door openers and I wanted to run all 3 on one circuit. What else would be good to have 20 amp breakers for? I haven't actually given this that much consideration. . . I just have a job that gives me a lot of time to over think stuff. . .

i know nothing of garage door openers so I just wanted to be safe. those are both 10x10 doors. I'll start researching openers soon enough. . .

I'll probably just leave everything as 15 amp. I've already spent the money on breakers and 14/2. all those plugs are for is easy access for the shop vac and whatever else I plug in there. who knows, I'm going to bet there are a few I never plug into while I live in this place. . .

 

[dave67fd]

Do you really need/want that many switches to control your lighting?

I have one switch to control 9 of the 10 fixtures.

When you enter my garage and inside door i have a 4 switch box and then another 2 switch box. It took me months to learn which switch to turn on and for what.
You have switches for outside door lighting, spot lighting etc....as well as all your ceiling lighting

I learned that you will wind up flipping switches like crazy untill you get what you want turned on. Your shop isin't really that big to warrant that much lighting isolation. Maybe just switch your main bay and then one for the room and one for the left rear end area.
Keep it simple. Just consider it.

 

[KPSquared]

Ya, the more I stare at it, the more confusing it looks. I'm going to draft up another one and see if I can't cut out a few switches. I'll post up my "final" draft with a TON of switches and then I'll see if I can't cut a few out.

I want my work area independent and on a 3 way, I want the main bay on a 3 way but maybe I can separate it into just front and back. No point in having lights covered by the garage doors turned on, is there?

Maybe just one three way for the main bay and one for the work area. . . Hmm, back to the drawing board.

 

[jvitez]

Depends how you'll use the shop, but I agree, still way too many switches. You'll never vary what you switch on by that much. After the novelty wears off, you'll just flip a whole bunch on at the same time.

What if you just need to run into the garage to grab something? You don't want all the lights on for 30 sec at a time. How about 4 porcelain lamp holders and get-em-while-you-can 4 100 watt incandescent bulbs just for that? Our code here say one light for each garage bay, so in my garage I'm leaving the lampholders that are there already for exactly this reason, and will do continuous row fluorescents after the celling is done.

 

[KPSquared]

Ok, this is probably going to work as my final draft. I may add just one more switch for the 3 plugs on the front of the garage. Those may be used as a power source for landscape lighting and I would like the option to turn it on and off. . . but for now, here's version 3 or 4 or 7 or something. . . I cut out one set of lights from the main bay as well.

Just as an aside, the room over in the top left corner is a separate space. It's the lawnmower garage. So it needs it's own lights and switch.

 

[KPSquared]

I think this makes more sense to me. Those 4 wall mounted lights with the green line are going to be on a motion sensor so they will come on any time I walk into the garage. They look like this:

We are covering that north wall and the east wall (North is on the left in the drawings) with old barn board, so those lights should fit in nicely and provide the "just running out to the garage for something" light.

 

[[email protected]]

What should the spacing be between banks of lighting fixtures?