Lighting layout question for Plantonic Solid

[jjscott]

Plantonic Solid,

My next project is to install LED lighting in my slightly oversized 3 car garage. You obviously have an excellent grasp on the subject and I’m hoping you will help me out on this one. The dimensions are 33x24ft and the ceiling is 11ft. All the walls and ceiling are textured drywall with flat white paint. I have attached a picture of the layout below. It includes locations for the doors, windows, garage heater, door openers, and door rails.

Here is what I’m looking for:
- I would like it bright enough to detail my cars and motorcycle without having to deal with dead spots. I like the idea of installing fixtures that are a brighter than my needs, so dimmable fixtures would be appropriate. The last thing I want is for it to not be bright enough and then have to replace them.
- I would prefer 4 foot fixtures unless you feel it would be better for my layout to go with 2 foot
- I am looking for flush mounted if possible
- The fixtures should be hardwired
- I would prefer a modern looking fixture that is esthetically pleasing. Something that blends in rather than stands out if you know what I mean.

I am not looking for a cheap fixture. I’m not made of money, but I am willing to spend to get a quality fixture. Hopefully I will only have to do this once.

Look forward to your recommendations!

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[Platonic Solid]

If you remove cost as a limiting factor, the options are really quite staggering. I'll start with the lower end of the cost spectrum.

Qty.12 of LumeGen 2ft.-10,400 Lumen - 80 Watt - Dimmable will run you $840 plus $72 for mounting brackets (link) (Note: It has yet to be verified that these brackets fit the LumeGen fixture) for a grand total of $912.

Yield at full brightness = 118fc @ 30" workplane
Total lumens = 124800

For comparison Qty.12 8400 lumen output fixtures yield 95fc @ workplane. (total lumens = 100800)

 

[Platonic Solid]

If the above fixture doesn't float your boat then you can use those figures as a rough baseline.

Total Lumens = 100,800 to 124,800
Minimum Qty. of fixtures = 12
Dimming = Yes
Light distribution pattern = Medium
Lens = Frosted
Mounting = Surface
Fixture Distribution Pattern = Medium

Before you jump into the $1000++ options I feel obligated to show you the lowest cost option:

Non-dimming 4ft 2 lamp strip lights:

Qty.22 (22 housings/44 bulbs) using the 18W LED T8 2520 Lumen Greentek bulbs and PLT TXFC232X1 housings from post#1 of the best light fixture thread = ~$600 total, 91fc @ workplane

To search for alternate fixture styles, suggest going through all the vendor links on post #1 of the best light fixture thread.

 

[Platonic Solid]

For a cleaner more custom look at a reasonable price, check out the edge lit LED panels in this thread (link)

Qty. 21 will yield 95fc @ workplane
Cost = $1281

 

[jjscott]

Thanks. Will a high bay light working in my garage being that it is an 11ft ceiling?

How well do you think this unit will work for my needs and how many do you think I would need to adequately light up my space?

https://www.lightup.com/flat-panel-2x4-led-light-72w-dim-200w-equiv-9000-lumens-lumegen.html

 

[Platonic Solid]

The term High Bay isn't appropriate for a 10,400 lumen fixture. Just ignore that. So yes, that will work nicely at 11ft.

Did you notice the 2x4 flat panel edge lit you selected is only available in 3000K?

 

[jjscott]

Yeah, I did notice that when I first looked at them. It only give a 3000K choice from the drop down color options list, but it does say they are available in 4000, 5000 & 6000K under the details section. Not sure if they are just out of stock and that's why its not listed under the drop down or maybe and issue with their site. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow to inquire.

What would be the best color option for my application? I spoke with two companies so far and one said 4000K and the other said 5000K. The one that suggested 4000K said that a 5000K light would be a bit on the blue side. The company that suggested the 5000K said it would be indicative of natural light at noon on a sunny day. What are your thoughts?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Qty.12 2x4 LED Edge Lit = 98lm @ workplane
Cost $1260 after including $25 surface mounting kit (link)
Either 4000K or 5000K is fine. Some fixtures have slightly higher lumen output at 5000K.

 

[jjscott]

If it were your garage, would you go with 4000 or 5000k? What would be the deciding factor for you?

Is there a fatigue factor on the eye between the two?

 

[Platonic Solid]

My personal preference would probably be 4000K, but if that wasn't available going to 5000K would be just fine with me. Exposure to the blue light spectrum has negative effects on melatonin which effects your sleep pattern (circadian rhythm). On the flip side, studies show people feel more awake and energized in 5000K lighting (which coincides with the melatonin blue light exposure research). If you tend to use the garage mostly in the evenings 4000K may support a slightly better nights sleep.

The blue light wavelength is known to cause damage to the eyes retina and may accelerate age-related macular degeneration. Keep in mind that white LEDs are actually blue LEDs with a blend of rare earth phosphors added to make the desired white CCT.

 

[jjscott]

Thanks. That's some very interesting information. I'll see if they have the 4000k available.

Would it be possible for you to provide a layout for my garage based on the LumeGen 2x4 72 watt flat panels as you have done for others? You recommended 12 of these and I'm not sure how you would have them laid out....parallel or perpendicular to the garage doors. One thing to note is that I will be adding a work bench against the long wall by the heater and entrance to my house. There will also be a 55" toolbox on the same wall. Not sure how far off the wall the lights should be for adequate coverage over that work space. I added an updated drawing below.

Oh, one other thing...do you know if these LED's will cause an issue with the remotes for my garage door openers? I've heard others complain that once they added LED's the remotes for their door openers stopped working due to interference. I believe the issue happened after replacing the lights in the door opener itself. Just curious if the flat panels will induce the same issue.

Thanks again for all your help

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[Platonic Solid]

I've heard no complaints here on GJ about LED fixture interference with garage door openers. If you put the fixtures on a dimmer, you may be able to rectify such issues by tweaking the output as that will change to fixtures pulse behavior. If this is a serious concern, then I would not recommend any of the fixtures listed thus far and opt for fixtures with Lutron drivers. Getting fixtures with Lutron drivers is a custom order which would need to be done from a fixture manufacturer like Metalux or Lithonia and ordered through an electrical distributor. This will triple the cost of your lighting.

Does this garage exist yet?
Do you have any pics?
Do you have location dimensions for the heater?
Do you have above drawing available in CAD file?

 

[jjscott]

This is an existing garage. I have the drawing I previously attached in Microsoft Visio 2013 format and it's pretty close to scale. Will that work?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Save Visio to AutoCAD DWG or DXF, then I can use it.

 

[jjscott]

Save Visio to AutoCAD DWG or DXF, then I can use it.

Ok, here's the AutoCAD dwg file. I added more precise measurements within the drawing for the heater location as I'm not 100% comfortable with its actual placement in the drawing. I had to rename the file to a PDF extension as this site does not allow dwg file extensions to be uploaded so you will have to rename it back. Let me know if it comes through OK for you.

View attachment GarageLayout_5.pdf

The heater measurements are 26.5"W 21.5"D 12"T. Diagonal is 34".

 

[Platonic Solid]

Got it. Opens just fine in AutoCAD.

 

[ishiboo]

If the above fixture doesn't float your boat then you can use those figures as a rough baseline.

Total Lumens = 100,800 to 124,800
Minimum Qty. of fixtures = 12
Dimming = Yes
Light distribution pattern = Medium
Lens = Frosted
Mounting = Surface
Fixture Distribution Pattern = Medium

Before you jump into the $1000++ options I feel obligated to show you the lowest cost option:

Non-dimming 4ft 2 lamp strip lights:

Qty.22 (22 housings/44 bulbs) using the 18W LED T8 2520 Lumen Greentek bulbs and PLT TXFC232X1 housings from post#1 of the best light fixture thread = ~$600 total, 91fc @ workplane

To search for alternate fixture styles, suggest going through all the vendor links on post #1 of the best light fixture thread.

Damn... Menards had 5200 lumen shop lights for BF for $15 each. 53 watts each. Not particularly efficient, but bright!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Damn... Menards had 5200 lumen shop lights for BF for $15 each. 53 watts each. Not particularly efficient, but bright!

I see no 5200 lumen LED fixtures on Menards site. I see this remarkably inefficient 4200 lumen 50W LED for $30 (link)

 

[jjscott]

Hey Plantonic, I called the manufacturer of the 2x4 panel today and confirmed they do offer the light in both 4000k & 5000k. They are currently out of stock for both so that’s why their site only lists the 3000k. I was getting a little worried after seeing only the 3000k on their site.

Let me know if you need anything else from me for the garage layout drawing.

Thanks

 

[Platonic Solid]

This thread would be more interesting with actual pics.

 

[ishiboo]

I see no 5200 lumen LED fixtures on Menards site. I see this remarkably inefficient 4200 lumen 50W LED for $30 (link)

Yes, as I said it was for Black Friday. I have 40 of them under my workbench waiting to be installed.

It was their 3-day sale but they were sold out the same day in most stores I think.

Here's the light: https://www.menards.com/main/m-3481433.html

They were $14.99 each, and are (rated for) 5500 lumens.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Nice deal! Can't tell by the add - does it have a frosted lens?

 

[jjscott]

This thread would be more interesting with actual pics.

Apologies, I wasn't aware you needed pics of the garage to do the layout. I will try and get some posted later.

 

[jjscott]

Here are the pics. Let me know if you need anything else

Thanks

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[ishiboo]

Nice deal! Can't tell by the add - does it have a frosted lens?

I thought so. I wasn't going to set foot into Menards on Black Friday, but I was a bit worried despite being a 3-day sale they would sell out. Picked up 30, and then went back for 12 more. By the time I checked out they were gone.

They have a frosted lens. I purchased similar LEDs on clearance from Menards, only 4300 lumens or so but they've performed well despite loosing a few.

 

[panchohughes]

FWIW... Here are the first lights that were suggested at the start of this thread. Platonic recommended them to me, and we got them installed this past week. My ceiling is 12' high, is still open yet, nothing to reflect off of.. yet with only 9 of them.. is very bright. I am thrilled with them. (2ft. LED Linear High Bay - 80 Watt - 150W Equiv - Dimmable - 10,400 Lumens - LumeGen)

 

[cybrdyke]

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Gaaahhh!!

and that's why we dont use light bulbs, corn cob lights or other single point sources on the ceiling!!!

Glad you're going to upgrade this, JJ!


CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here are the pics. Let me know if you need anything else.

Interesting. Never seen a textured ceiling in a garage. You may have mentioned - I don't recall - What's the wiring plan? Surface conduit or do you have access above ceiling?

 

[Platonic Solid]

FWIW... Here are the first lights that were suggested at the start of this thread. Platonic recommended them to me, and we got them installed this past week. My ceiling is 12' high, is still open yet, nothing to reflect off of.. yet with only 9 of them.. is very bright. I am thrilled with them. (2ft. LED Linear High Bay - 80 Watt - 150W Equiv - Dimmable - 10,400 Lumens - LumeGen)

For all wood surfaces you actually appear to have a respectable amount of light bouncing up into the attic.

 

[panchohughes]

Yeah! Once i get the ceiling up... it should compare to an operating room. Love it.

 

[jjscott]

Interesting. Never seen a textured ceiling in a garage. You may have mentioned - I don't recall - What's the wiring plan? Surface conduit or do you have access above ceiling?

I have access to the ceiling above for wiring. Would it be possible for you to provide a diagram showing your recommended layout for the 2x4ft flat panels? I believe the ones I've seen from you in the past include light intensity at various locations in the garage. I'm not sure at this point if they should be parallel with the garage doors, perpendicular or a mix.

Thanks for all of your help

 

[Platonic Solid]

jjscott - I will provide a layout. Give me a few days to get to it.

 

[jjscott]

Ok. Sounds good.

 

[Lelandwelds]

FWIW... Here are the first lights that were suggested at the start of this thread. Platonic recommended them to me, and we got them installed this past week. My ceiling is 12' high, is still open yet, nothing to reflect off of.. yet with only 9 of them.. is very bright. I am thrilled with them. (2ft. LED Linear High Bay - 80 Watt - 150W Equiv - Dimmable - 10,400 Lumens - LumeGen)

Your space is 28 x 30 x 12 and you put up 9 ea, right? Seems darn bright to me ( especially in all wood). How many footcandles did this work out to? (A bit hard to spot the details on your posts. I can almost read the stamps on your OSB!)

 

[Platonic Solid]

Lelandwelds - Below calculated output based on 70|50|20, Ceiling|Wall|Floor reflectance

Qty.9 of these will give you 82fc @ 30" workplane:
2ft. LED Linear High Bay - 80 Watt - 150W Equiv - Dimmable - 10,400 Lumens - LumeGen - $70 (link)

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here you go:



Dialux Report (link)

 

[panchohughes]

Your space is 28 x 30 x 12 and you put up 9 ea, right? Seems darn bright to me ( especially in all wood). How many footcandles did this work out to? (A bit hard to spot the details on your posts. I can almost read the stamps on your OSB!)

Apparantly 82 fc;
"Qty.9 of these will give you 82fc @ 30" workplane"

 

[jjscott]

Here you go:



Dialux Report (link)

Thank you very much for taking the time on this. I would like to play around with other fixtures like the one you initially recommended. I see that you created the report with Dialux software. Can you tell me what version you used? I went to their website and found they have two free versions for download...v4 & v7.1. Which one did you use?

 

[Platonic Solid]

I try to stay current with the latest version = 7.1

 

[jjscott]

Ok, that's the one I installed. I'm guessing you used a similar IES file for the report as I see Lithonia Lighting - EPANL 24 40LHE 40K EPANL 24 40LHE 40K listed under the luminaire section rather than the Lumegen. Is this correct?