To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Lighting: Mystery dryer part fried?

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
Crazy storm w/ lightning came through (again) -- couple hours ago. Heard the hit - lights went out twice - back on. On investigation: All the ground fault breakers tripped ... noticed a few others including the gas dryer's breaker. Tripped as I tried to reset -- smoked (always bad).

On investigation -- The power line cord splices in two as it enters the unit. One goes to the guts ... the other to the transformer that runs the electronic controls. The control harness has this red (guess capacitor) connecting line and neutral (it's not on the wire diagram?)

Any idea what it does? Its a 120v transformer. Diagram says 10v out

Also:

Most of my Lutron dimmer switches also blew (20) -- as well as two cable boxes/ TV's and my very good business printer in the office (naturally the old one is fine)

It seems everything else is working -- including my two newish AC systems .. I hope.
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0260.jpg
    DSC_0260.jpg
    82.8 KB · Views: 155
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

RPH

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
4,190
Location
Michigan Thumb
Could be a mov or a filter cap. Need more info, any identifying numbers, letters, and features?
 

CoogarXR

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
6,863
Location
Ohio
The blown component is a metal oxide varistor. It did its job absorbing the surge. it may have failed closed (shorted) though. It happens.

They are pretty cheap to replace if you have any electronics places nearby.
 

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,050
Location
Modesto, CA
sounds like you need to make sure your grounding electrode system and all bonding is up to snuff.

ive been in buildings with microwave radio towers that took direct hits and nothing fried.
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
looks to me like a thermistor or a fuse - but it could be a Varistor as suggested. Do you have insurance that covers lightning damage? I'd just let them pay to have it fixed or replaced. You might fix one part then two weeks late the motor burns up because a winding arced over. If a thermistor blew it may mean the console is shorted.

From online "A varistor is essentially an open circuit until its breakdown voltage is exceeded which point it begins its resistance drops steeply. A thermistor is more of a temperature sensitive resistor; it's not "normally closed", it's a resistor."

Varistor:

ROV14H301K-S.jpg


Thermistor:

514yiLZqT9L._SL1200_.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
Could be a mov or a filter cap. Need more info, any identifying numbers, letters, and features?

It has an H then a J4 with 130L20 under it . when I google the lower number the thing that comes up is correct -- is the H J4 the model?
 

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,010
Location
NJ
Your picture shows what looks like a mov. They are used to clamp the voltage to a safe level for the components downstream. They have joule rating and yours was obviously exceeded.

You could cut it off to test the dryer.

Take pics of all damage.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
sounds like you need to make sure your grounding electrode system and all bonding is up to snuff.

ive been in buildings with microwave radio towers that took direct hits and nothing fried.


This is my suburban NJ house -- we have had crazy storms recently. Have never had this happen .. even when closer hit. Nothing has been touched .. very strange.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
looks to me like a thermistor or a fuse - but it could be a Varistor as suggested. Do you have insurance that covers lightning damage? I'd just let them pay to have it fixed or replaced. You might fix one part then two weeks late the motor burns up because a winding arced over. If a thermistor blew it may mean the console is shorted.

From online "A varistor is essentially an open circuit until its breakdown voltage is exceeded which point it begins its resistance drops steeply. A thermistor is more of a temperature sensitive resistor; it's not "normally closed", it's a resistor."

Varistor:

ROV14H301K-S.jpg


Thermistor:

514yiLZqT9L._SL1200_.jpg

Have Chubb Insurance -- but, this property is a 5k deductible.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
Your picture shows what looks like a mov. They are used to clamp the voltage to a safe level for the components downstream. They have joule rating and yours was obviously exceeded.

You could cut it off to test the dryer.

Take pics of all damage.

So it is functioning as a surge protector ?
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
that is because electricity does strange things. I've been close to lightning many times in my life whether a tree near me outside the building I was in being hit, or the car I was in being hit. They have had cases where someone gets hit on a golf course from a cloud over the horizon. People have been hit where there were 40,000 people around them in a football stadium. A friend of mine was hit in a building on Mt Whitney. It killed the guy next to him whom he was speaking with. That old expression, "hit by lightning, an act of God...." applies here. Make penance, fix, and move on.
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
So it is functioning as a surge protector ?

Any idea what it does? Its a 120v transformer. Diagram says 10v out

before you plug the connector back in check the voltage coming out of that transformer to be sure it isn't shorted and allowing 120V thru to the panel. It may have been there to protect the panel if that 10V transformer failed to the high side.
 
Last edited:

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,010
Location
NJ
So it is functioning as a surge protector ?

Yes, you'll find them in many powerstrips, etc. The problem with them is how big of an energy rating to provide. Real hard to measure lightning. Hopefully it (alone) took the hit. You can find them on amazon of course......just what size to put back in?
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
this is from Wikipedia "A varistor is an electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage. ... When used as protection devices, they shunt the current created by the excessive voltage away from sensitive components when triggered. The name varistor is a portmanteau of varying resistor."
 

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,010
Location
NJ
this is from Wikipedia "A varistor is an electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage. ... When used as protection devices, they shunt the current created by the excessive voltage away from sensitive components when triggered. The name varistor is a portmanteau of varying resistor."

And look like the OP's when they shunt too much!
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
He got that resetting the breaker, and it smoked. Looking at the size of the ****, it looks like a lot more than a 10V circuit for controls. Best guess is that the power supply shorted from the lightning bolt and passed 120V thru. Might be able to find someone who surpluses old dryers to see if they have one of those power supplies / transformers.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
So is it designed to trip the breaker to save the appliance?

I removed the what ever it is .... and checked the transformer. The transformer is 10 volts across the middle to each terminal -- so 20v across the coil. That's correct ... so I guess it did not damage the transformer.

But -- the unit did not come to life ... guess the board is toast.

I'm going to check the motor and gas relays ... see if they turn on the motor and start the gas cycle. If they work I will spend 10min and check the control pad. If all of that is good it may be worth getting a board. Used they are around $100 -- someone has a NOS for $165.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,010
Location
NJ
So is it designed to trip the breaker to save the appliance?

I removed the what ever it is .... and checked the transformer. The transformer is 10 volts across the middle to each terminal -- so 20v across the coil. That's correct ... so I guess it did not damage the transformer.

But -- the unit did not come to life ... guess the board is toast.

I'm going to check the motor and gas relays ... see if they turn on the motor and start the gas cycle. If they work I will spend 10min and check the control pad. If all of that is good it may be worth getting a board. Used they are around $100 -- someone has a NOS for $165.

No. If the only thing you did was clip the smoked mov out of the ckt, then I would say the MOV internally shorted as a result of it trying to clip too much energy. The surge was way too large as the downstream items have failed also. An MOV with a higher joule rating may have helped.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
It sounds like it just there for protection ? It's only on the line going to the transformer that powers the controls.

The actual dryer works off two relays -- one for the motor and the other for the gas circuit. When I jump the relays ... both operate as they should. The control is just cycling the relays.

My guess is it blew out the board -- I don't see it hurting the keypad .. but it may have done something to the display?

It may be worth trying the $160 board ... it's cheaper vs getting a new SQ set at 2k+
 

wssix99

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
5,162
Location
Chicago, IL
This is my suburban NJ house -- we have had crazy storms recently. Have never had this happen .. even when closer hit. Nothing has been touched .. very strange.

This just happened to me. The things you are describing are damage from the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) associated with the lightening strike. You should file a claim with your insurance company as there are probably more damaged things in the house and this stuff will start piling up...

Our lightening strike hit our satellite dish, so we had some direct current damage from that (all of our electronics near our metallic eaves got fried) and then just about everything else in the house with a circuit board (except for the computers, which turn out to be shielded very well!) were fried by the associated EMP. (Our house has concrete walls and some electronics were spared due to that as the bolt hit us from a distance, at a shallow angle. Based on the pattern of damage, the shielding provided by the walls, and the pathway through our wood roof for radiation to enter, we can even see the direction in the sky where the bolt came from.)


Crazy storm w/ lightning came through (again) -- couple hours ago. Heard the hit - lights went out twice - back on. On investigation: All the ground fault breakers tripped ... noticed a few others including the gas dryer's breaker. Tripped as I tried to reset -- smoked (always bad).

On investigation -- The power line cord splices in two as it enters the unit. One goes to the guts ... the other to the transformer that runs the electronic controls. The control harness has this red (guess capacitor) connecting line and neutral (it's not on the wire diagram?)

Any idea what it does? Its a 120v transformer. Diagram says 10v out

Also:

Most of my Lutron dimmer switches also blew (20) -- as well as two cable boxes/ TV's and my very good business printer in the office (naturally the old one is fine)

It seems everything else is working -- including my two newish AC systems .. I hope.


Crazy storm w/ lightning came through (again) -- couple hours ago. Heard the hit - lights went out twice - back on. On investigation: All the ground fault breakers tripped ... noticed a few others including the gas dryer's breaker. Tripped as I tried to reset -- smoked (always bad).

Wires in the house (and circuit boards) conduct electrons from the EMP and collect an induced current. When this current flows through the ground wires, some GFCI and Arc Fault breakers will be tripped. (My GFCI and Arc Fault circuits closest to the roof and walls all tripped, while my interior/shielded circuits didn't get enough current.)

We found that some electronics were more sensitive than others. I also have a friend that got struck a few years ago. It seems that TV's are really weak to this sort of thing (all of ours were trashed), HVAC systems, and hot water heaters get it also. (I assume this is because all of the ducting and piping also collects current.)

We also had current induced in our drywall corner bead and had some drywall blow-outs where sparks shot out of the drywall. (This, in itself, would have been really cool if it happened somewhere else.)

As we've opened up all of our damaged equipment, we've found that on circuit boards; some relays fused (we also had a door security reed sensor on a metal door frame weld closed) and semiconductors (resistors, microchips, etc.) exploded).

Attached is a copy of an exploded chip on our HVAC control board. Just like the fried component you see on your dryer, we are finding that just about everything that isn't working has some sort of burned or exploded semiconductor on the circuit boards.


It may be worth trying the $160 board ... it's cheaper vs getting a new SQ set at 2k+

One of the nasty parts of this, which we experienced and I expect you will experience going forward, is that when one upstream is fixed, other downstream problems are uncovered.

For example; your control board in the dryer could be fried also. (Having the insurance claim helps as these things are uncovered - we just keep adding to the list with our adjuster.) BTW - You'll want to keep any damaged parts you are fixing. The insurance company will prefer to come by and see everything not working and/or damaged first, before you fix anything. We had to get some things up and running before the adjuster could come, like our hot water and HVAC, which they understood and were fine to just survey the broken parts.

We have a combination boiler that provides hot water and radiant heat water for the house. When we fixed the control board for the unit and fired it up to test the hot water, we also tried the hydronic system to make sure it worked. When we flipped the switch for that, our boiler control board started fizzling and burned up like a marshmallow in a camp fire. When we fixed that boiler control, we tried everything again and found that our hydronic zone thermostats were also fried.

^ So you'll want to test everything in the house, even the stuff you aren't using right now!
 

Attachments

  • semiconductor.jpg
    semiconductor.jpg
    62.5 KB · Views: 28
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
It's random, that's for sure. So far the only things are the dimmers/dryer/1x Fios box/ My best printer. The printer has fuses on the power board -- but HP decided to design the whole thing around them.

my homeowners deductible on this house is 5k -- so it's on me.
 

wssix99

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
5,162
Location
Chicago, IL
my homeowners deductible on this house is 5k -- so it's on me.

Ouch. I'm pushing $10K on this strike. Having the mechanical systems go out starts adding up the tally.


It's random, that's for sure. So far the only things are the dimmers/dryer/1x Fios box/ My best printer. The printer has fuses on the power board -- but HP decided to design the whole thing around them.

From the EMP, we lost:
- AC/Heat Pump, all thermostats and control boards
- Boiler, all thermostats and control boards
- All TV's
- The new/best printer (our 15 year old LaserJet was just fine.)
- Desktop network switch
- Intercom power supply
- 1 Security Sensor (on the metal door frame)
- Tripped some GFCI and Arc Fault breakers

So, I think your damage list looks pretty similar. Some of my neighbors also got hit by the EMP and they all lost their TV's and cable boxes/modems.

I also lost a bunch of computer network equipment from the direct current. (I have structured wiring that created a path from a temperature sensor on my roof to the network closet. I won't talk about that because its pretty obvious what 1 million volts might do to this type of equipment. :)
 

SGKent

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,959
Location
Citrus Heights CA
in Fl where my folks lived they got hit when a powerpole about 200' away got hit. It traveled in to the house and came out of electric sockets and went back into the wall. Only a wireless phone was damaged by that which was nearby the wall socket.

This reminds me of a guy I knew who was a night engineer at a radio station out in Palm Springs. One night they had an electrical storm. He had to turn off the transmitters and shut himself in the Faraday cage because the bolts were flying in the station, hitting metal desks, file cabinets, coffee pots, etc..
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
what do you have for the grounding electrode system?

Like ground rods? Typical setup off the main panel.

The house is a big long cape -- Main panel in the garage. That panel feeds the AC condensers/ main kitchen dishwasher/ Garage. The house has four sub-panels. 3 house and outdoor/pool. It took things out on all three of the house subs. All the panels have those double Square D surge protectors (they take up two spots) .. green light still on --- not much good I guess.

Took the printer apart --- found on of two fuse blown -- got the fuse ... put the whole thing back together (complex) ... blew when I plug it in. I may take the power supply board out and see if the fuse blows with nothing attached -- if it does ... I may risk $100 for a used supply. The printer is over 1k used. Mine has seen light duty.

My 12 dimmers came today .. found a used board for the dryer on e-bay. Maybe I will get lucky with the dryer. Got the two new Fios boxes ..... the TV's worked after unplugging them for a while.

Everything else seems to be working .....
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
Ouch. I'm pushing $10K on this strike. Having the mechanical systems go out starts adding up the tally.




From the EMP, we lost:
- AC/Heat Pump, all thermostats and control boards
- Boiler, all thermostats and control boards
- All TV's
- The new/best printer (our 15 year old LaserJet was just fine.)
- Desktop network switch
- Intercom power supply
- 1 Security Sensor (on the metal door frame)
- Tripped some GFCI and Arc Fault breakers

So, I think your damage list looks pretty similar. Some of my neighbors also got hit by the EMP and they all lost their TV's and cable boxes/modems.

I also lost a bunch of computer network equipment from the direct current. (I have structured wiring that created a path from a temperature sensor on my roof to the network closet. I won't talk about that because its pretty obvious what 1 million volts might do to this type of equipment. :)

Have to keep 10k on another house .. it's just too expensive otherwise. Chubb prices policies that way .. I cover the deductible in just under 5 years. They wave the deductible if the claim passes 50k .... had one major claim way over the 50k.
 

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,010
Location
NJ
Like ground rods? Typical setup off the main panel.

The house is a big long cape -- Main panel in the garage. That panel feeds the AC condensers/ main kitchen dishwasher/ Garage. The house has four sub-panels. 3 house and outdoor/pool. It took things out on all three of the house subs. All the panels have those double Square D surge protectors (they take up two spots) .. green light still on --- not much good I guess.

Took the printer apart --- found on of two fuse blown -- got the fuse ... put the whole thing back together (complex) ... blew when I plug it in. I may take the power supply board out and see if the fuse blows with nothing attached -- if it does ... I may risk $100 for a used supply. The printer is over 1k used. Mine has seen light duty.

My 12 dimmers came today .. found a used board for the dryer on e-bay. Maybe I will get lucky with the dryer. Got the two new Fios boxes ..... the TV's worked after unplugging them for a while.

Everything else seems to be working .....

You may be able to file a claim w/SQ D. If you have the paperwork pull it out, otherwise search part #.

Those surge protectors boast all sorts of protection and warranty.
Check that before go any further and take pics - lots.
 

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,050
Location
Modesto, CA
who installed the surge protectors? Are they installed properly?

Check your GEC and rods and make sure theyre up to snuff.

Also, I would add additional protection on telco and cable co lines and make sure theyre properly grounded. when i moved into the current house im in i discovered the grounds was not done properly.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
who installed the surge protectors? Are they installed properly?

Check your GEC and rods and make sure theyre up to snuff.

Also, I would add additional protection on telco and cable co lines and make sure theyre properly grounded. when i moved into the current house im in i discovered the grounds was not done properly.

The phone system survived .. we use Fios. No cable line outside. I'm wondering if the dryer got sapped through the ground ? All AL vent to outside?
My guess is the Fios boxes got killed from power.

I'm going to switch out the dimmers this weekend.

It was the newer Fios boxes .. newer dimmers .... newer printer. All the old stuff survived except the dryer .. the washer next to it with the same digital display is fine
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
obviously fiber cannot transmit lightening so then the lightening entered via another avenue. might be a good idea to figure out how it got in and fix accordingly

The power company says it can come from strike on the lines ... so it can come in from the main line depending on where you are in relation to the strike and what's between you and the strike.

When I get back -- will ask neighbors if they had any issues. I'm the last house on the run ... and my house backs up to a wetlands area (although it's not wet)

I have owned this property since the early 90's --
 

wssix99

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
5,162
Location
Chicago, IL
what do you have for the grounding electrode system?

This is only relevant for a strike where direct current is involved. That doesn't seem to be the case here. yeldogt's damage sounds more like EMP damage, which surge suppressors can't stop. (Because the electricity, like really powerful static electricity, comes from the air and not the wall wires.)


The phone system survived .. we use Fios. No cable line outside. I'm wondering if the dryer got sapped through the ground ? All AL vent to outside?
My guess is the Fios boxes got killed from power.

I'm going to switch out the dimmers this weekend.

It was the newer Fios boxes .. newer dimmers .... newer printer. All the old stuff survived except the dryer .. the washer next to it with the same digital display is fine

In our situation, most everything that got hit was electronics encased in plastic enclosures. (TVs, Thermostats, printer, etc.) I expect that was the same vulnerability for your printer and FIOS box to the electricity/radiation in the air during your strike.

Most of our appliances encased in metal shielded the electronics. (They would have taken any charge they gathered and sent it to our electrical ground wire/ground rod in the house.) Other systems, like the dryer, hot water, and HVAC have extensive networks of metal connected to them that collect charges that may not be grounded well. (Pipes, ducts, etc.)

Does your dryer have a metal duct? Is it gas? (If so, that may have been the vulnerability.) If not, then what kind of electrical plug do you have on the dryer? Is it a 3 prong plug or a 4 prong plug? If you have a 3 prong electrical dryer and got hit with an EMP, your dryer chassis won't be well grounded and wouldn't be able to dissipate a charge in this event like your other grounded appliances were able to do.
 
OP
Y

yeldogt

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
This is only relevant for a strike where direct current is involved. That doesn't seem to be the case here. yeldogt's damage sounds more like EMP damage, which surge suppressors can't stop. (Because the electricity, like really powerful static electricity, comes from the air and not the wall wires.)




In our situation, most everything that got hit was electronics encased in plastic enclosures. (TVs, Thermostats, printer, etc.) I expect that was the same vulnerability for your printer and FIOS box to the electricity/radiation in the air during your strike.

Most of our appliances encased in metal shielded the electronics. (They would have taken any charge they gathered and sent it to our electrical ground wire/ground rod in the house.) Other systems, like the dryer, hot water, and HVAC have extensive networks of metal connected to them that collect charges that may not be grounded well. (Pipes, ducts, etc.)

Does your dryer have a metal duct? Is it gas? (If so, that may have been the vulnerability.) If not, then what kind of electrical plug do you have on the dryer? Is it a 3 prong plug or a 4 prong plug? If you have a 3 prong electrical dryer and got hit with an EMP, your dryer chassis won't be well grounded and wouldn't be able to dissipate a charge in this event like your other grounded appliances were able to do.


The dryer is gas -- it does have a metal vent. And it's a bit odd -- the vent had to exit the house under ground and go up -- it's SS pipe. It's not very long of a run.

If the power went through the ground ... that could be it.
 

tym

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
2,443
Location
MA
The blown component is a metal oxide varistor. It did its job absorbing the surge. it may have failed closed (shorted) though. It happens.

They are pretty cheap to replace if you have any electronics places nearby.
Yep. It's a varistor that did it's job. If it isn't totally burned, there may be markings indicating it's voltage rating.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom