Lighting plan for 28x28....opinions?

[69charged]

Good morning all. I am going to be wiring my unfinished garage as soon as I pass inspection on the panel. I also want to order my lights so they get here when i need them. I am going with the Hyperlite Hero series lights so I decided to get a lighting plan done by them to see what they say. They came back with 4- 150w lights 7' in from each corner for my 28' x 28' garage with 12.5' ceilings. I'm no expert by any means, but it doesn't seem enough does it? Originally I was just going to buy 9- 100w hero lights in a 5000k color, and put up 6 of them and have three spares. Then have all 6 on the same circuit and a 1-10v dimmer. So to go down to 4 seems like I would have hot spots in the middle and dark at the edges. I will use the garage for everything from detailing vehicles to dimming the lights and having people over for beers and bbq's . What are your thoughts??





I should add that the walls with be finished in painted drywall. Thinking something like a real light gray, or possibly white. The ceiling will be old barnboard. These lights will be wired with plugins so its easier to change one out if needed.

Thank you very much for your time with this.
Clarence

 

[billconner]

You'll probably get the foot candles, but you'll also have a lot of glare. If you're interested, Google lighting design and glare.

 

[mm08822]

Without knowing what obstacles will be part of the ultimate floor plan and where you would be detailing cars, I would suggest installing 3 rows of 3.
Definitely do the dimmer.

2x2 is enough for storage IMO.

 

[Shiftless]

2x2 is enough for storage IMO.

That’s more than adequate for most uses.
Each one is good for 21,000 lumens.
Four of them will light up that 28x28 just fine. Too much glare for my personal taste but plenty of light. My little 20x20 is lit up with 9 twin tube four foot long LED fixtures. And some extra separately switched floodlights over one of the workbenches and aimed downward at the shelving on one wall. No dimmers.

 

[69charged]

Thanks all. I had originally planned for 3 rows of 3 of the 100w lamps.
There are 2 8x9 overhead doors, and the cabinetry and work bench will be in an L shape along the west and north wall. So for reference that would be the left wall and top wall in the layout diagrams above. The 2 garage doors are on the bottom wall in the diagrams. I would pull a vehicle in one of the doors, and park it pretty much in the middle. Anything I work on would most often be pulled into the middle.
I had also thought on running the 3x3 on two circuits so I wouldn't HAVE to have them all on. The amount of money any extra wiring and switches would cost to do that are pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things. But, not sure I see a scenario where I would need that if I also install a dimmer. My son thinks I'm crazy to put a dimmer in and all these lights! But I painted him a picture of him and his buddies all sitting around havin a few beers till 1 in the morning with music blaring. No need for it to look like a surgery room with it dark outside and the big doors open. Set the mood and dim the lights!! He came around to my style of thinking!!

 

[u2slow]

I have added lights to the walls, edges of built-in shelving, and under portions of mezzanine. Puts light closer to what I'm working on, and avoids a lot of shadows. I knew i would have to add this in addition to ceiling light, so i did it first, Lol. My ceiling is still not finished.

 

[69charged]

Thinking about the glare part of this.....i did some quick reading on it. Definitely something to think about. Will it be a huge concern if my ceilings are that high? At work we have some new LED linear lights mounted on the walls. They have no diffuser or and shading or anything. You can see the bare LED chips. They are extremely annoying because they are just above head height. So no matter where you look they are always in your face. Mine will be 6-7 feet above your head. Thoughts???

 

[Shiftless]

Thoughts???

That is why I like relatively low output fixtures with diffusers. Just use more of them.

 

[69charged]

That is why I like relatively low output fixtures with diffusers. Just use more of them.

I see hyperlite has an available 60 degree frosted diffuser available for those hero lights. Could that be an option to help glare?

 

[cybrdyke]

The diffuser is a good accessory because it helps a little with glare and also evens out your f-c min/max figures. Plus, they look nicer. Your light level with 4 fixtures is more than adequate. For reference, we shoot for 40fc in a school classroom. You're at 75, in theory, but you'll fall short of that by a bit because of obstacles, barnwood, etc. You can put all four on one dimmer for about $200 without running wire down the walls. Use a Lutron Vive Powpak and a Pico (or two).
Good luck,
CD

 

[u2slow]

7' above your head is definitely NOT suitable for highbay fixtures. I'd be looking for single tube/strip lights with a good diffuser.

 

[69charged]

7' above your head is definitely NOT suitable for highbay fixtures. I'd be looking for single tube/strip lights with a good diffuser.

I was under the impression anything about 12' and higher would be suitable? I'm at 12.5' so right at the threshold, hence why I thought about the 100w ones.

 

[billconner]

By definition, low glare lighting is 45 degree cut off, fwiw.

 

[mm08822]

That’s more than adequate for most uses.
Each one is good for 21,000 lumens.
Four of them will light up that 28x28 just fine. Too much glare for my personal taste but plenty of light. My little 20x20 is lit up with 9 twin tube four foot long LED fixtures. And some extra separately switched floodlights over one of the workbenches and aimed downward at the shelving on one wall. No dimmers.

My point is more fixtures, each at a lower lumen output to lower the intensity of each point source and the glare it creates.

Personally, I prefer linear fixtures inside to smooth out the lighting level even further. I hate working in shadows. I would put more effort into the installation so my daily use from then on meets all my needs.

Detail work is a different need than just storage.

 

[69charged]

So here is a 300w light I “borrowed” from work a couple weeks ago just to see what I was wanting and looking for. I will admit I was a little disappointed compared to what I thought it would look like. I know it’s only 1, and the shadowing was real bad, so that’s what kind of led me to think more than 4 100w ones. I think I’d like better coverage in all areas than what I “imagine” 4 will get me.



It’s like 42,000 lumens or something crazy.

 

[mm08822]

If I found the same fixture family on Amazon, only the 150w version has a diffuser. The others are open LEDs. I would stay away from non-diffused versions.

The specs state 12-16' mounting height. You're just within that range.

The specs also indicate "Control Method: Remote" Not sure that implies 0-10v control. It could simply mean turn off the circuit "elseware" as in via switch or cb. If fixtures are dimmable it is usually a clearly stated feature. Where did you find any mention or 0-10v control?

 

[69charged]

The picture I posted with the diffuser was taken from Amazon. They sell the diffuser separately so that does add to the cost. Currently it shows the diffusers are out of stock, but they can be bought later and added on real easy it looks like.

This screen shot is from their website.



I would end up running a 1-10v separate control wire. It is easier to just use a dimmer without to control the dimming, but if ever I change fixtures for whatever reason, I want that wire there so I’m never limited on what I can install. As I said earlier these will be plugged in so can be swapped out easy if needed.

Thanks all for the help so far. I appreciate the discussion and learning that comes from back and forth!
Clarence

 

[Criss]

I see hyperlite has an available 60 degree frosted diffuser available for those hero lights. Could that be an option to help glare?

I have that 150w with diffuser light that I use as an additional overhead work light in one garage bay. I mounted this Hyperlite on a trolley that runs in a strut/track along the garage door opener track. This allows me to slide it overhead where I need it. It's 9'-1/2" from the floor. I have 63, 6" (120W equivalent)5000k led flush can lights in my 30X60 and I still never seem to have the light where I need it. I run mine on three separate dimmer switches. I usually need more light not less.

 

[Shiftless]

I have 63, 6" (120W equivalent)5000k led flush can lights in my 30X60 and I still never seem to have the light where I need it.

I bet that took a lot of time to wire up 63 fixtures. Sorry it’s still disappointing.
I assume each fixture is good for what…1500 lumens?
63 x 1500 = close to 100,000 lumens
I guess that’s not enough. Plus, those low lumen flush lights probably have too wide a beam spread so the light bounces around off the walls which might not be very reflective. Not the greatest for high ceilings.

 

[cybrdyke]

That spec sheet indicates 1-10V dimming. This is not the same as 0-10V dimming, which is the industry standard. That would be a deal breaker for me because most controls, like Lutron (the most common), operate a 0-10 protocol and wont work properly with a 1-10V driver. Really dumb of this manufacturer to use a 1-10V driver.
CD

 

[69charged]

That spec sheet indicates 1-10V dimming. This is not the same as 0-10V dimming, which is the industry standard. That would be a deal breaker for me because most controls, like Lutron (the most common), operate a 0-10 protocol and wont work properly with a 1-10V driver. Really dumb of this manufacturer to use a 1-10V driver.
CD

I started reading up on the difference. Had no idea. They offer their own dimmer on the site. I could just order one with the lights I guess. I was hoping to use the Lutron Casetta series switches. I've used them in the past and really like the mobility of them.
Looking online, it is kind of hard to find a 1-10v dimmer.

 

[cybrdyke]

I started reading up on the difference. Had no idea. They offer their own dimmer on the site. I could just order one with the lights I guess. I was hoping to use the Lutron Casetta series switches. I've used them in the past and really like the mobility of them.
Looking online, it is kind of hard to find a 1-10v dimmer.

Easier to find a similar UFO that's 0-10V. There's millions of them out there....
CD

 

[69charged]

Easier to find a similar UFO that's 0-10V. There's millions of them out there....
CD

True. I will look into that.
Thanks

 

[billconner]

That spec sheet indicates 1-10V dimming. This is not the same as 0-10V dimming, which is the industry standard. That would be a deal breaker for me because most controls, like Lutron (the most common), operate a 0-10 protocol and wont work properly with a 1-10V driver. Really dumb of this manufacturer to use a 1-10V driver.
CD

Are you sure? This from manual. Seems like it does both. "The main difference between 0-10V and 1-10V is the direction of the current between dimmer and driver. 0-10V is a current source system, which means that the dimmer provides the power for the 0-10V signals – a mains connection to the dimmer is necessary. 1-10V is a current sink system."

 

[Criss]

I bet that took a lot of time to wire up 63 fixtures. Sorry it’s still disappointing.
I assume each fixture is good for what…1500 lumens?
63 x 1500 = close to 100,000 lumens
I guess that’s not enough. Plus, those low lumen flush lights probably have too wide a beam spread so the light bounces around off the walls which might not be very reflective. Not the greatest for high ceilings.

Only 1050 lumen per fixture. Ceiling is 9'-1/2" 110° beam. I decided to order 4 more High bay that I will put on 9' tripods and use them as auxiliary work lights. Cans lights look fancy, but aren't practical.

 

[billconner]

You can get recessed led with 45 degree cut off and at least 5000-6000 Lumens. Not inexpensive. I've specified a lot of them.

 

[69charged]

So say I decide to go with something else. I like the look of a 2x4 flat panel light, I think. They go all the way down to 30w up to 72w. What would the layout pattern look like then? They are pretty big. As in they take up ceiling real estate. It wouldn't really matter, but it really wasn't the look I was going for. Not sure how they would look with a barn board ceiling. I see there are surface mount kits for them as well.
Would it be better to run these at full brightness all the time I'm in there or have the UFO's and have them dimmed down? Life expectancy wise. Or, am I overthinking everything? Which I tend to do!!

 

[cybrdyke]

Are you sure? This from manual. Seems like it does both. "The main difference between 0-10V and 1-10V is the direction of the current between dimmer and driver. 0-10V is a current source system, which means that the dimmer provides the power for the 0-10V signals – a mains connection to the dimmer is necessary. 1-10V is a current sink system."

Here's what I'm sure of...

• 0-10 and 1-10 systems are different and there will be issues if you try to dim a 1-10 driver with a 0-10 control.
• The spec sheet says the driver is 1-10.
• The comments above in red are incorrect. The dimmer doesn't provide power for the 0-10 signals. The driver does.
• The Chinglish attempt at trying to explain a wiring diagram makes it even more complicated and confusing.

Now, back in the day, in entertainment lighting, there were products that used the control to provide the 0-10V signal. Maybe that's where you got this info. But that was a while ago. For general illumination, the driver creates the control signal. Always has.
1-10V systems can only dim to 10%. 0-10V systems can dim lower, sometimes to OFF (this can be a point of contention, too). But the dimming curves are different and thus the misbehavior can begin when you try to mix and match these systems.
As technology advances, this will start to become less of an issue. Consensus has already chosen 0-10 as the protocol.
CD

 

[billconner]

Here's what I'm sure of...

• 0-10 and 1-10 systems are different and there will be issues if you try to dim a 1-10 driver with a 0-10 control.
• The spec sheet says the driver is 1-10.
• The comments above in red are incorrect. The dimmer doesn't provide power for the 0-10 signals. The driver does.
• The Chinglish attempt at trying to explain a wiring diagram makes it even more complicated and confusing.

Now, back in the day, in entertainment lighting, there were products that used the control to provide the 0-10V signal. Maybe that's where you got this info. But that was a while ago. For general illumination, the driver creates the control signal. Always has.
1-10V systems can only dim to 10%. 0-10V systems can dim lower, sometimes to OFF (this can be a point of contention, too). But the dimming curves are different and thus the misbehavior can begin when you try to mix and match these systems.
As technology advances, this will start to become less of an issue. Consensus has already chosen 0-10 as the protocol.
CD

So you're saying the fixture installation sheet is not possible? No one could design a driver to work on both 0-10 sinking current and a 0-10 vdc supply?

Pretty thorough article on 0-10 sinking current *******.

 

[cybrdyke]

So you're saying the fixture installation sheet is not possible? No one could design a driver to work on both 0-10 sinking current and a 1-10 vdc supply?

Pretty thorough article on 0-10 sinking current *******.

The spec sheet is likely wrong, but who am I to say for sure? The installation instructions are ridiculous to read. Its anyone's guess what they're trying to say.
I'm not sure I understand your second question. Did you mean to say 1-10VDC supply? I know of drivers that work on multiple dimming protocols. They work on both line voltage dimming, low voltage dimming (0-10) and even DALI. But I dont know of one that does both 0-10 and 1-10. Sure, someone could invent that. Wouldn't surprise me if someone already has. But I dont see any benefit to it. Like I said earlier, the consensus has made 0-10 the standard protocol, so why spend R&D money on a dinosaur. Plus, it would be expensive. Besides, if someone did make such a thing, it wouldn't be a no-name internet gutter-dweller like Hyperlite.
CD

 

[69charged]

So….if they are like a interwebs dumpster fire type light, what brand should I be looking at? I say that with genuine intentions. There is just so much to sift through. I have bought from superbrightleds before as well, but suspect that’s in the same boat as these?
Not looking to spend 300 per fixture either.
Honestly my original plan was to put up 9 of these. But buy 12 or so to have 3 spares in case they failed. But…..now what?

 

[cybrdyke]

69- I didn't mean to dissuade you from using them. I'm sure they're fine. Please understand that there's a difference between DIY garage lighting and professional stuff that old stuck-up lighting nerds like me will use. My comment simply means that these generic fixtures are built and engineered to a price point, and then the internet seller also has very little stake in the process. He simply handles the order with no liability. Those things combined make for a low-end product with no discernable features. (It also allows for the Chinglish instructions. You would think that someone would at least take a minute to clean those up).
The pro brands do cost more. We know who's drivers are in there, who's diode arrays are being used, who's casting, etc. The product claims are verified, tested and documented. There is a giant difference in performance and life.
There are mid-range brands that are legitimate. RAB, Eiko, Keystone, ETI and more are actual manufacturers that you should be able to find from the internet sellers. Try Green Lighting Wholesale. They carry good stuff.
CD

 

[69charged]

69- I didn't mean to dissuade you from using them. I'm sure they're fine. Please understand that there's a difference between DIY garage lighting and professional stuff that old stuck-up lighting nerds like me will use. My comment simply means that these generic fixtures are built and engineered to a price point, and then the internet seller also has very little stake in the process. He simply handles the order with no liability. Those things combined make for a low-end product with no discernable features. (It also allows for the Chinglish instructions. You would think that someone would at least take a minute to clean those up).
The pro brands do cost more. We know who's drivers are in there, who's diode arrays are being used, who's casting, etc. The product claims are verified, tested and documented. There is a giant difference in performance and life.
There are mid-range brands that are legitimate. RAB, Eiko, Keystone, ETI and more are actual manufacturers that you should be able to find from the internet sellers. Try Green Lighting Wholesale. They carry good stuff.
CD

Ok. Thanks. I will look into those brands. I recognize the RAB name as I have a few of those lights for my yard site. The electrical contractor my son works for sells those.

 

[dave*99]

So say I decide to go with something else. I like the look of a 2x4 flat panel light, I think. They go all the way down to 30w up to 72w. What would the layout pattern look like then? They are pretty big. As in they take up ceiling real estate. It wouldn't really matter, but it really wasn't the look I was going for. Not sure how they would look with a barn board ceiling. I see there are surface mount kits for them as well.
Would it be better to run these at full brightness all the time I'm in there or have the UFO's and have them dimmed down? Life expectancy wise. Or, am I overthinking everything? Which I tend to do!!

Considering 2x4? Perhaps my journey will provide some insight.

Lighting for 24x28 shop

So I think I'm off to a rocky start..... I've been reading the best light fixture ever thread for a long time. And I still think I need some help. The basics: Woodshop above garage. Under construction. I have some woodworking machinery to go in the shop. It will have drywall finished...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[4x4Pete]

In my 30'x32'x 12.5', I used 12 4' led units. 4400 lumens I think, it's been a few years. It's bright enough and the light is even with no glare. I didn't do a calculation, I just guesstimated it. For the layout I made 3 rows of 4 lights evenly spaced and set them on two switches, front and back. For the work bench I put a switched plug mounted high with a similar plug in type fixture hanging above the bench. Here is a pic during construction.

 

[69charged]

Considering 2x4? Perhaps my journey will provide some insight.

Lighting for 24x28 shop

So I think I'm off to a rocky start..... I've been reading the best light fixture ever thread for a long time. And I still think I need some help. The basics: Woodshop above garage. Under construction. I have some woodworking machinery to go in the shop. It will have drywall finished...

www.garagejournal.com

Thanks. So after having them

Considering 2x4? Perhaps my journey will provide some insight.

Lighting for 24x28 shop

So I think I'm off to a rocky start..... I've been reading the best light fixture ever thread for a long time. And I still think I need some help. The basics: Woodshop above garage. Under construction. I have some woodworking machinery to go in the shop. It will have drywall finished...

www.garagejournal.com

Thanks.
So after having them all this time, how have they been? I had looked at doing a 2x4 panel in my old garage with 9’ ceilings. I thought I should look for something brighter for 12.5’ ceilings. But I do like how smooth they are. Smooth as in not hot spots and easier to look at.
How were they mounted in your particular install, and how far down do they sit?

 

[BLUE72CAMARO]

Here is my install of 150W hero series lights in 36x48 area of my back pole barn.

UFO lights w/dimming install

So when I was getting ready to pull the trigger on new lighting for my back shed I struggled to find info on what others had used and how they had installed the dimming circuit. Since I mentioned I was using Duo Romex wire in another thread I have had a few members contact me asking how I used...

www.garagejournal.com

These are the switches I used on mine and they work perfectly.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJIUH4U/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[69charged]

Here is my install of 150W hero series lights in 36x48 area of my back pole barn.

UFO lights w/dimming install

So when I was getting ready to pull the trigger on new lighting for my back shed I struggled to find info on what others had used and how they had installed the dimming circuit. Since I mentioned I was using Duo Romex wire in another thread I have had a few members contact me asking how I used...

www.garagejournal.com

These are the switches I used on mine and they work perfectly.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJIUH4U/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Nice. Thank you for that. Pretty much what I had in mind. I think I will order one 100w light and see what I think. Its free shipping in Canada, so if I end up not using them, I'll put it under my eaves or something.

 

[dave*99]

Thanks. So after having them

Thanks.
So after having them all this time, how have they been? I had looked at doing a 2x4 panel in my old garage with 9’ ceilings. I thought I should look for something brighter for 12.5’ ceilings. But I do like how smooth they are. Smooth as in not hot spots and easier to look at.
How were they mounted in your particular install, and how far down do they sit?

They are perfect. No glare no shadows. And the design program correctly predicted the illumination level.

Consider this…. I have 64 sq ft of light surface area (the 2x4 panels times 8) on 700 sq ft of floor. I’m not sure if that is the perfect way to look at it.

You can also consider 3 tube 4 ft LED ready fixtures with frosted tubes for your application.

 

[69charged]

They are perfect. No glare no shadows. And the design program correctly predicted the illumination level.

Consider this…. I have 64 sq ft of light surface area (the 2x4 panels times 8) on 700 sq ft of floor. I’m not sure if that is the perfect way to look at it.

You can also consider 3 tube 4 ft LED ready fixtures with frosted tubes for your application.

I would either go flat panel, or the UFO’s. The look I’m going for when it’s all done would suit the UFO’s better. Like a factory or warehouse type look.