Lighting suggestions- 40'x60'x16'

[snydes]

Hello everyone. Starting to think and plan for a lighting layout on a 40'x60'x16' building. It's a steel building, 16' at eaves and appox. 18' at the peak. Did a little reading on here and it sounds like either T5 HO or metal halide (sp?) are the favorites. One thing I hate is working in the dark, so bright enough to get a suntan would be great. I understand the downside to the metal halide is the warm up time, and that wouldn't be a terrible deterrant in my mind if thats the only con. Any approximate idea on price difference between these two types? Other suggestions?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[tsbrewers]

This might be a swear word around here, but I went with a bunch of 4' t-8 fluorescent fixtures from wal-mart under $7.00 a piece. I have 12 in my 900 sq. ft. garage and it is just right. I have read the ballasts in these lights might burn out after a year or two, but I figure for the price, it doesn't bother me to replace one or two every few years. Even if I slowly replace with better fixtures, I have good lighting in there now with minimum investment.

I originally wired my garage for 8' ho direct wire fixtures, but when I found these with the plug in type wiring already attached I just put in outlets where my wires were hanging. Now that I have done it I prefer this route since it is much easier to get the lights where I want them, I am not limited to where I pre-wired. I can plug them in and hang them anywhere the cord will reach. hope this helps. I have 12' ceilings in my garage.

Brew

 

[Ign]

Another vote for flo's, but I run the HO cold starts.

A few bucks for a cord and a strain relief will net you "unpluggable" lights of any configuration. I did this in my smaller garage as it was already wired with switched receptacles in the ceiling from the previous owner.

I don't like "point" light sources, thus my vote for flo.

Definitely switch zones so you don't have to have the right side of the shop lit if you're working on the left, etc.

My building's a bit smaller than yours at 40x50 but the peak is higher at approx 19'. I've currently got eleven 8' fixtures and it's plenty bright.

 

[Piper]

For what it's worth, I've read that the average watts per square foot in a garage is 1 to 1.5. So if your garage is 2400 feet square, at 1 watt per square foot you'd need 2400 watts or 75 four foot 32 watt bulbs which is ~36 fixtures. If you put T8 6000K bulbs in there you'd be fine. With this many fixtures you could have 4 separate circuits so that 1/4 to all of the lights could be on at any time, your choice.

FWIW my 2 cents.

Piper

 

[Wardrum]

Hello everyone. Starting to think and plan for a lighting layout on a 40'x60'x16' building. It's a steel building, 16' at eaves and appox. 18' at the peak. Did a little reading on here and it sounds like either T5 HO or metal halide (sp?) are the favorites. One thing I hate is working in the dark, so bright enough to get a suntan would be great. I understand the downside to the metal halide is the warm up time, and that wouldn't be a terrible deterrant in my mind if thats the only con. Any approximate idea on price difference between these two types? Other suggestions?

Thanks,
Steve

My shop is 68' x 48' with 15' - 6" ceiling. I have ten 400 watt metal halide low-bay lamps and they light it just fine. I have them wired on 4 circuits so I can turn on as many or as few as I need but most of the time they are all on. You're correct, there is a brief warm-up period before they come to full illumination, especially in cold weather, but I don't find that to be a problem. What I like most about them is that they are very energy efficient and the bulbs seem to last forever. My shop electric bill averages $29 per month, $14 of which is the meter charge. The lights (and stereo) are on about 5 - 6 hours per day, 6 days a week. The lamps were installed in November, 1998. I have yet to replace a bulb. With 15'+ ceilings, that's a good thing.

 

[Gummi Bear]

HO Fluorescents are still the best bang for the buck.

If you can swing it, the T5HO's are amazing.

1 watt per square foot of lighting is pretty darn decent, 1.5 would fully rock!

My Dad's shop at the farm is ~.8 per square foot and it's plenty bright. The skylights help during the day, but it's still plenty at night.

I put 10 - 8' 4 lamps fluorescents in his 40x40 workspace, and another 3 in the loft (20x40, for storage only)

Remember, no matter what you do, a watt is a watt. It is a base measurement. If you have a 400W metal halide, or 10 - 40w fluorescent tubes, the amount of energy consumed is the same. (Ohm's Law)

 

[snydes]

Great info! What makes these T5HO's so special?

 

[Gummi Bear]

The optics also have a lot to do with them. They're making them more versatile to be mounted at varying heights.

They're available in 1x4, 1x8, 2x4 and many other popular configurations, and work well in a grid type suspended ceiling (like you'd see in an office building) I've installed them in food manufacturing facilities that need a ceiling, and they're a lot simpler than food grade hi-bays (and lighter too). They can also be hung with jack chain, aircraft cable, or fastened to the structure with a beam clamp and hook.

Right now, they're still spendy. Probably twice the price of a comparable high bay (or low bay) fixture.

http://www.prolighting.com/fixtures-high-low-bay-high-bays.html

Here's an online store that has several different types of fixtures for sale (pricing is way high on high bays, I budget them for half that pretty often)

I just got off the phone with one of my suppliers, he said for a budget, a small quantity of 2x4 T5HO's that $150-160 each is a good #.

Another big benefit of the T5 lamps is color. Metal halide is a bluish color, High Pressure Sodium is yellow, Mercury Vapor is green, and the t5's are white, very white.


For most hobbyists, it'd take you years to recover the savings from going to high bay or T5 lighting cost. A quality T8 fluorescent installed correctly can provide years of inexpensive and reliable service.

It's all up to you. How much zoot do you want, and how much are you willing to spend?


<---- this didn't apply, I just think it's funny.

 

[snydes]

Very interesting. Based on what I am taking in so far, I'm leaning towards the Metal Halide. If I went with 8 of those I should end up with approx. 1.3 watt per sq.ft., which from what I am hearing should light it up very well. The price is in budget as well. The T5HO's on the other hand would be well out of my budget. I see they offer a 14", 17", and 20" version of the 400w metal halide, what would be best? I would think bigger would be better in this case.

Thanks for all the help,
Steve

 

[snydes]

On the metal halides, what does the prismatic version do?
I'm reading in there description of the 4 lamp T5HO's "Replace your 400w metal halides 1 for 1. Equal light with 1/2 the cost to operate." If thats the case, then these might still be an option. Is that statement accurate?

 

[Winmon]

In my 40' x 40' (half of it has a 14' ceiling and the other half has 9' ceiling)
I am using (13) 8' F96T12/HO 110watt fluorescents along with (2) 400 watt metal halides. It is bright in there! I have the fluorescents split into 2 circuits and the metal halides on other. One thing I would recommend if you go with the fluorescents is get them with electronic ballasts. I skimped on them and am REALLY regreting it now. The buzzing is annoying.
Based on the formula that was posted above I have 2.28 watts per sq ft!

 

[AGBill]

For my new shop which is 40' X 40' X16' high, I am going with 320 Watt pulse start metal halide low bay fixtures. If you do a search on e-bay for item number 120062288343, he is selling used fixtures for $50 plus shipping in quantities of 10 each, including a used lamp, mounting hook and cord.

The nice thing about these fixtures is they are the current pulse start technology which is more energy efficient than the normal probe start metal halide lamps and they have a plastic diffuser on the bottom of the fixture to minimize the glare of a point source of light.

The fluroescent high output (HO) T-5 lamp fixtures are very nice, but they are relatively new fixtures with few used ones available. If you consider the overall cost for good white light, used metal halide fixtures are the best option in my opinion (others will disagree...).

 

[Ign]

With so many flo's in my shop I've found one or two that are disgruntled and like to hum a bit more than usual (I think it's just a QC issue), but I only notice it when I first walk in the door. After that the ear protection goes on, the stereo goes on, the ceiling fans go on and they're on a speed control which makes them hum a bit, too. Right now the Magic Heat for the wood stove is blowing all the time, then the welder is turned on and its fan runs non-stop, ditto for the plasma. Then the grinders start going, the chop saw gets used, and all variety of air tools, which cause a distant rumble from the compressor next door in the shed.

What light hum???????

 

[red vette mike]

I put 25 4 gang flo's in my garage (31X54x12). the walls and ceiling are painted a semigloss white and that place really lights up when those lights are on. I bought Lithonia fixtures. Took pains to line the fixtures up and they look nice. Bugs getting in under the covers are going to be somewhat of a problem.
Mike

 

[Gummi Bear]

On the metal halides, what does the prismatic version do?
I'm reading in there description of the 4 lamp T5HO's "Replace your 400w metal halides 1 for 1. Equal light with 1/2 the cost to operate." If thats the case, then these might still be an option. Is that statement accurate?

The color of the light makes it seem brighter. That's what makes them neat.

Unless your ceiling is pretty high (20' or higher), you want a LOW BAY type of fixture. The reflector distributes the light in a wider pattern. If you look up the fixture, there should be a photometric summary of that fixture on the manufacturers website. It will tell you about how many foot candles (measure of light) you'll have on the floor when the fixture is mounted at a given height.

Hope this helps!

 

[Gummi Bear]

I put 25 4 gang flo's in my garage (31X54x12). the walls and ceiling are painted a semigloss white and that place really lights up when those lights are on. I bought Lithonia fixtures. Took pains to line the fixtures up and they look nice. Bugs getting in under the covers are going to be somewhat of a problem.
Mike

The bugs are going to be a constant problem. They get in from the back, the ends, and the gap around the lip of the fixture. No matter how hard you try to seal it up, those little buggers find their way in.

You could look at a different lens, like a 'eggcrate' that may be able to be retrofitted in. It's an open honeycomb, and about 3/8 - 1/2" thick, typically it's used in commercial buildings for an anti-glare application.

Lithonia makes good stuff, you did good there.


Something else - for those of you with lensed fixtures. If you clean your lenses once or twice a year, you'll notice that your light output will be dramatically changed for the better. Dust, bugs, and crud keep them from allowing all the light to be distributed.

 

[Ign]

Lithonia makes good stuff, you did good there.

Really? That's what my 8' 'ers are too, that's what my Home Depot carries. I always figured they were fairly low quality just 'cause Home Depot stocked 'em.

 

[Gummi Bear]

Yeah, Lithonia is decent.

They are cheap due to volume pricing. The sell a TON of fixtures. There are other manufacturers that could be as cheap, but choose not to (they like their margin) and lighting is one of the most aggressive industries in all of construction. Often times, the lighting package can determine who gets a job, both electrically and the GC. It can be that significant. I can't imagine how many millions of dollars worth of Lithonia fixtures I've purchased over the years, and the company I work for is local, imagine how many electrical contractors there are out there doing the same.

They own several different lines of fixtures, and make high end finishes as well as industrial strips and such.

Anymore, I wouldn't buy a Fluorescent fixture without an electronic ballast. It eliminates the hum, and they're a lot less temperamental. That's my opinion, and that along with $5, will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I walked in the local wally world a couple of months ago after not having been in there for a few weeks. Keep thinking something was different. Finally realized that all of the 400w metal halide lamps were gone and there were rows and rows of two bulb T8 fixtures. Wished I could have gotten my hands on a few of those MH fixtures.

Lithonia makes a fixture that is designed to replace a 400w MH high bay fixture. It is classified as High Bay but good down to 15 ft and available with uplighting or not Uses T5 lamps. Very shiny reflectors supposedly won't tarnish or dull. They call it the I beam. Problem is, its expensive. What isn't?

Right now I have four 250W MH low bay lamps I got from a local heat and air guy for $10 each. He picks them up at commercial job sites where they are doing renovations or rework, new store going in, etc. Haven't mounted them yet, have to have a electric "hijacker" manlift to run conduit and such. Building is 16 ft eave and 21 ft peak inside.

http://www.lithonia.com/Products/groups/Fluorescent/I-Beam/IbeamBrochure.pdf

 

[Gummi Bear]

I walked in the local wally world a couple of months ago after not having been in there for a few weeks. Keep thinking something was different. Finally realized that all of the 400w metal halide lamps were gone and there were rows and rows of two bulb T8 fixtures. Wished I could have gotten my hands on a few of those MH fixtures.

Lithonia makes a fixture that is designed to replace a 400w MH high bay fixture. It is classified as High Bay but good down to 15 ft and available with uplighting or not Uses T5 lamps. Very shiny reflectors supposedly won't tarnish or dull. They call it the I beam. Problem is, its expensive. What isn't?

Right now I have four 250W MH low bay lamps I got from a local heat and air guy for $10 each. He picks them up at commercial job sites where they are doing renovations or rework, new store going in, etc. Haven't mounted them yet, have to have a electric "hijacker" manlift to run conduit and such. Building is 16 ft eave and 21 ft peak inside.

http://www.lithonia.com/Products/groups/Fluorescent/I-Beam/IbeamBrochure.pdf

Those are the T5HO's that I was describing above. That's a good brochure, I hadn't seen before. Those look like they'd be easy to hang on a strut system, I'll have to keep them in mind.


If you haven't already, test your 'new to you' fixtures on the floor. Most HID ballasts are multi tap nowadays, and you may need to re-tap them. I build a tool cord, and test used fixtures on the ground before hanging them. It saves me any repair up in the air, and reduces my amount of lift time rental needed.

There are contractors that do nothing but lighting retrofits and travel the country doing nothing but that. I know of several. A few years ago, they were taking out 8' strips, and hanging the 250-1000W HID fixtures with Reloc, now they're taking down the HID's and putting the T5HO fixtures in the same place. It's an endless cycle, and keeps plenty of folks busy. They typically have a buyer for all of the fixtures that they take down before they even roll into town. I've worked on crews that did nothing but this. We'd come in at closing time, and work until they opened the doors in the morning again, whether it was 8 hours or 16, we'd get after it from can till can't. In the case of a 24 hour store, we had to partition off the areas we were working in, and keep 'flagmen' on the ground to warn off customers. Kind of a 'Seconds & Surplus' type of deal where a consumer can buy a used fixture with no warranty or guarantee, but cheap.

 

[gotta56forme]

I'm not sure if my question will make sense or not... The 1-1.5W recommendation per sqft of area lit - Does that make a difference how the space is finished out? Some garages are dark and cavelike due to material surfaces. I'm planning on painted sheetrock and a satin-finish expoxy floor for the garage I'm going to build. Will 1.5W per sqft just make my time in the garage more enjoyable, or at some point will it be too bright and possibly produce glare?

 

[SteveU]

How you have it finished definitely makes a difference. I painted the walls and ceilings white in my shop & that made a world of difference. Painting the ceiling & walls white & going with a lighter color for the floor if you are going to finish it will make it a lot brighter with any given amount of light than if they were darker in color. I used the 25.00 / 5 gal white latex from the farm store, don't think you want a gloss, too much glare.