I’m with you on that one, it’s not something I’d do in my shop either. But when you’re doing larger amperage sleeve and pin style receptacles or even a hardwired flex connection in an industrial setting, it’s viable.
Above 1200 Sq/FT LilScorpion’s Fab Space
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lilscorpion
Well-known member
Agreed, makes total sense in industrial settings and I’d do it without thinking in my old shop for similar reasons. Was thinking about it since my last post - and I have radiant heat. Unless I have someone map the routing of the tube in the floor, drilling otherwise is unwise. I wasn’t planning on drilling anyway. Was going to attempt to attach to the machine itself as the anchor. What I ended up doing was the best of all ideas for sure.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Tonight I got the stack of list as instance and on their own casters. I want to be able to move them as needed. Previous owner had welded the casters to the masses so I had to cut the welded with a cutoff wheel and then blow them off with an air hammer. Annoying but easy. One of the counter tops from the old garage worked almost perfectly as a top across/above the two.
Slightly better pic to help show where they fit in the bigger picture. As you can see, I was quick to stack a bunch of $hit on them. What you see here is all my R8 tooling for the mill awaiting just about any other better storage/organizational solution.
Slightly better pic to help show where they fit in the bigger picture. As you can see, I was quick to stack a bunch of $hit on them. What you see here is all my R8 tooling for the mill awaiting just about any other better storage/organizational solution.
elvee
Well-known member
Those strain reliefs are called kellem grips. Incredibly useful for the right application, which this is.
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lilscorpion
Well-known member
Kellem grips. Cool, good to know the name. Chinese finger traps clearly wasn’t right.
kaymccampbell
Well-known member
It's what I've called them for the last 60 years. The counter guys always know what I mean.Kellem grips. Cool, good to know the name. Chinese finger traps clearly wasn’t right.
Those days are long gone Kay. It’s mind boggling to me that even the most basic of parts are no longer known by the counter guys let alone my inside sales guys. Graybar has gotten so bad if I need a quote asap I look up their stock numbers and provide it with my request.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Had a very productive and enjoyable weekend. I started in on the drawer adventure. This would the the 5th time I think building drawers for cabinets in my shop space and this time it’ll be a way different adventure - in areas if building them all from scratch, I’m going to leverage the CNC.
These are literally the first cuts on the machine and I had fully intended for there to be a learning curve and the first cut didn’t disappoint. The machine is a 4x4. Apparently the software has a different orientation than the machine. It assumes the grain of the material runs front to back, I loaded side to side…fail #1
Dust collection is absolutely atrocious but I was in the zone and making chips.
And just like that, the first drawer
With the custom tooling from Vortex I’m able to make dovetail joints easily.
The joints were fairly sloppy but the software is extremely configurable. Little tweaks to tighten up the joints, probably did this a few times to get to a right fitting assembly.
Feeling maybe a little over confident at this point, I started in on the first set of drawers. These will hold powder coating tools and the powder coat itself just to the right of the oven and the power coating booth.
Cut, ready for assembly.
these will be significantly stronger and much better looking than the ones I’ve made before.
I’ll be using the accuride 100lb slides. For most of the drawers, they’re plenty strong.
These are literally the first cuts on the machine and I had fully intended for there to be a learning curve and the first cut didn’t disappoint. The machine is a 4x4. Apparently the software has a different orientation than the machine. It assumes the grain of the material runs front to back, I loaded side to side…fail #1
Dust collection is absolutely atrocious but I was in the zone and making chips.
And just like that, the first drawer
With the custom tooling from Vortex I’m able to make dovetail joints easily.
The joints were fairly sloppy but the software is extremely configurable. Little tweaks to tighten up the joints, probably did this a few times to get to a right fitting assembly.
Feeling maybe a little over confident at this point, I started in on the first set of drawers. These will hold powder coating tools and the powder coat itself just to the right of the oven and the power coating booth.
Cut, ready for assembly.
these will be significantly stronger and much better looking than the ones I’ve made before.
I’ll be using the accuride 100lb slides. For most of the drawers, they’re plenty strong.
RickP
Well-known member
Really nice dovetails.
Way to get the CNC into action.
And that's a pretty short learning curve!
Way to get the CNC into action.
And that's a pretty short learning curve!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Now I need to cut some drawer bottoms on the machine (first one I cut on the table saw). Lesson #2, apparently the vacuum doesn’t always **** the sheet down. I’ll need to press them down by hand to make sure it’s got a hold of slightly cupped sheets. Somehow the fail was in the middle of one of the bottoms. Ill hide I by facing it down.
This is the only glue I’ll use in assembling the drawers. Because the table ensure squareness, two clamps pull the drawers straight and in 10 minutes they’re good and dry ready for install.
The process is fast enough I can assemble and clamp a sheets worth of drawers as the machine cuts the next sheet.
So I load another and get it running..
And learning moment #3 is soon to present itself. Lost one party final cut out of the last part in the sheet. Not sure why.
Load up another sheet…and lesson #4…again but this time I’m half way thru final cut out. This time it made a huge mess. Full depth cuts thru multiple parts as the sheet was pulled up from the vacuum table. Sigh…guess I can use one of the pieces to document which ones I need to remake.
In between failures I did get a victory lap moment with a completed cabinet.
Next sheet - missing pieces and a few more.
Lesson #5?!? Gotta be kidding me. Why on earth is the vacuum table having such a hard time holding down the sheet?
By now I’m using scrap to make the missing parts on drops. I dont trust the table and it reduce she cost if the failures.
This is the only glue I’ll use in assembling the drawers. Because the table ensure squareness, two clamps pull the drawers straight and in 10 minutes they’re good and dry ready for install.
The process is fast enough I can assemble and clamp a sheets worth of drawers as the machine cuts the next sheet.
So I load another and get it running..
And learning moment #3 is soon to present itself. Lost one party final cut out of the last part in the sheet. Not sure why.
Load up another sheet…and lesson #4…again but this time I’m half way thru final cut out. This time it made a huge mess. Full depth cuts thru multiple parts as the sheet was pulled up from the vacuum table. Sigh…guess I can use one of the pieces to document which ones I need to remake.
In between failures I did get a victory lap moment with a completed cabinet.
Next sheet - missing pieces and a few more.
Lesson #5?!? Gotta be kidding me. Why on earth is the vacuum table having such a hard time holding down the sheet?
By now I’m using scrap to make the missing parts on drops. I dont trust the table and it reduce she cost if the failures.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
I also spent some time playing with cutting strategies in smaller parts trying to see if I can help them stay put by linking them with tabs to the larger parts. This will reduce the effort the table needs to make to maintain vacuum. Here’s the back of a sheet showing the linking. A simple zip with the occulting tool and they come apart easily.
I also resurfaced the table in hopes of maintaining max suction around the parts. But it turned out that the problem I was chasing was a decision I made before I ever started cutting the first test part and it just hit me while I was doing something else. I recalled out of nowhere that the cabinet design software had popped up a warning message when creating the first cut file - more or less, “no compression bit in inventory” so I swapped in a down cutting bit just so I could get started…but I failed to adjust the depth of cut settings on the down cut bit. It was cutting the profile of the parts FULL DEPTH. The spindle has an enough horse power to do it but the vacuum table don’t have the holding power to hang on to the parts while it does. I adjusted the depth of cut to be 1/4” per pass significantly reducing the pulling force in the material as it’s cut. Low and behold…
By now I’ve cut a bunch of sheets of plywood. So much going on it didn’t even occur to me to check to see if the dust collection bin was getting full…yep. Well over full. It was about 2’ up the tube that leads into the bin. LOL
Now drawers are beginning to pile up in the shop.
I get the wrench drawer stack installed
Even started to find things a home. These won’t stay here but can until their drawer is done so they don’t need to stay on top of the bench.
I also resurfaced the table in hopes of maintaining max suction around the parts. But it turned out that the problem I was chasing was a decision I made before I ever started cutting the first test part and it just hit me while I was doing something else. I recalled out of nowhere that the cabinet design software had popped up a warning message when creating the first cut file - more or less, “no compression bit in inventory” so I swapped in a down cutting bit just so I could get started…but I failed to adjust the depth of cut settings on the down cut bit. It was cutting the profile of the parts FULL DEPTH. The spindle has an enough horse power to do it but the vacuum table don’t have the holding power to hang on to the parts while it does. I adjusted the depth of cut to be 1/4” per pass significantly reducing the pulling force in the material as it’s cut. Low and behold…
By now I’ve cut a bunch of sheets of plywood. So much going on it didn’t even occur to me to check to see if the dust collection bin was getting full…yep. Well over full. It was about 2’ up the tube that leads into the bin. LOL
Now drawers are beginning to pile up in the shop.
I get the wrench drawer stack installed
Even started to find things a home. These won’t stay here but can until their drawer is done so they don’t need to stay on top of the bench.
Attachments
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lilscorpion
Well-known member
Thank you, that custom tooling is really innovative. Takes all the thinking and layout out of a usually manual and setup intensive process
I think it wasn’t horrible because I was fully prepared for the learning curve to be substantial so I was about as calm going thu it as I have ever been. It doesn’t hurt that the shop is falling into shape and I’m now more relaxed (or getting there). It’s been a long 8 months!
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Those dovetails look sweet...nicely done!
Never used it personally, but have used similar concepts on MDF vac tables before and have seen some good reviews of this stuff on Instagram:
Never used it personally, but have used similar concepts on MDF vac tables before and have seen some good reviews of this stuff on Instagram:
Tile Gasket™, pre-perforated Tile Gasket™, Nested Base Manufacturing
Our Patent pending Tile Gasket™ products were created for our Nested Base Manufacturing customers. For those looking for the benefits of a proper gasketing solution.
store.allstarcnc.com
You certainly whipped out a bunch of projects this weekend even with the learning curve. Very impressive 
I got a couple stupid questions. How is the datum established, is it a preset corner jigged into the table top or do you have to establish it. And I'm a little baffled by the vacuum table. Mind you I'm looking at this on a phone sooo. Are the perforations over the entire table top and if so how do you block any unused areas, just spare sheeting you have laying around?.
I got a couple stupid questions. How is the datum established, is it a preset corner jigged into the table top or do you have to establish it. And I'm a little baffled by the vacuum table. Mind you I'm looking at this on a phone sooo. Are the perforations over the entire table top and if so how do you block any unused areas, just spare sheeting you have laying around?.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Was looking at that stuff from AllstarCNC this weekend actually. I’m going to give them a call today. After the weekend of fiddling it seems the key is to keep the sheet format the same size so the perimeter is fully sealed to the table. It makes sense to me that if I cut all over the damn table I end up with a bunch of .020 leaks…I think the AllStarCNC product works in a similar way but between the spoil board and the table itself. The less leaks, the better the suction.Those dovetails look sweet...nicely done!
Never used it personally, but have used similar concepts on MDF vac tables before and have seen some good reviews of this stuff on Instagram:
Tile Gasket™, pre-perforated Tile Gasket™, Nested Base Manufacturing
Our Patent pending Tile Gasket™ products were created for our Nested Base Manufacturing customers. For those looking for the benefits of a proper gasketing solution.store.allstarcnc.com
I also think I’ll start playing with some basic fixturing to allow me to cut smaller parts. A “picture frame” more or less that would focus the vacuum where it needs to be…it’ll be a little trial and error.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
There’s really 2 surfaces that make up the vacuum table. The first is the table itself which is 1” thick MDF which has 2 features:You certainly whipped out a bunch of projects this weekend even with the learning curve. Very impressive
I got a couple stupid questions. How is the datum established, is it a preset corner jigged into the table top or do you have to establish it. And I'm a little baffled by the vacuum table. Mind you I'm looking at this on a phone sooo. Are the perforations over the entire table top and if so how do you block any unused areas, just spare sheeting you have laying around?.
- Machined grid into the 1” to allow focused vacuum up into the second layer
- 4 pvc ports (mine is a 4x4, the 4x8 has I believe has 8 ports) that are connected below the table and then on to the industrial vacuum itself.
The second surface is the spoil board with is 3/4inch mdf that sits immediately on top of the machines 1”. Here I’ve added the second sheet to the top and am taking a skim cut to remove the “skin” from the MDF sheet (to work, I had to remove the skin from both sides of the sheet).
I didn’t know this, but it turns out that MDF, when you take the surface of the sheet off, is porous and the vacuum can actually pull thru the spoil board. The second benefit of course is you can cut into it, reface, and start again without damaging the machines surface.
Jayman17
Well-known member
That's a pretty slick way to crank out really nicely made drawers. Love the use of BB plywood too. 
nicholam77
Well-known member
Super awesome! Even with the road bumps it looks like you got a lot of drawers done in a weekend... and they look amazing!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Wrapped up what I could last night on machining and prepping the drawer parts. The process is fairly repeatable.
After cutting them out of the sheets I’ve learned it’s easier to break rge edges with a slight chamfer before assembling than doing it after the drawer is completely assembled. To do that I’m using this fancy festool vacuum fixture I pitched years ago but rarely used because I didn’t have a dedicated space for it in the old garage.
There’s an external vacuum motor that pulls air from the suction cup where you can attach wood parts. It maybe works the best with refinished ply.
It holds the part well enough that I can now use both hands to route and guide on the part which enables me to go about twice as fast but much more safely than one handed.
All in all, I processed all those parts very quickly. Now I’m stuck until I can get down and buy 6 more sheets of 1/2” ply for the bases.
After cutting them out of the sheets I’ve learned it’s easier to break rge edges with a slight chamfer before assembling than doing it after the drawer is completely assembled. To do that I’m using this fancy festool vacuum fixture I pitched years ago but rarely used because I didn’t have a dedicated space for it in the old garage.
There’s an external vacuum motor that pulls air from the suction cup where you can attach wood parts. It maybe works the best with refinished ply.
It holds the part well enough that I can now use both hands to route and guide on the part which enables me to go about twice as fast but much more safely than one handed.
All in all, I processed all those parts very quickly. Now I’m stuck until I can get down and buy 6 more sheets of 1/2” ply for the bases.
bugnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
@lilscorpion really like seeing the cabinet build with the cnc. Looks like fun to me!
madison069
Well-known member
The CNC boards with drawer parts looks like the part trees in plastic models, pretty cool!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
That’s exactly what they’re like! The thought takes me way back too.
Nolift911
Well-known member
Great thread! Serious CNC envy!!
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lilscorpion
Well-known member
Made progress but it’s not yet obvious how much. Got the plasma table’s electrical drops run/dropped from the ceiling.
Per a request, here’s a better shot at how reinforced the box so it could support the weight of the cables. The tab gets welded to the cover and is now supported by lateral bolts.
Had to run down and get another dozen-ish sheets of pre-finished Baltic birch. Enough 1/2” to finish the 65 drawers if cut last weekend.
And spend the following hour cutting drawer bottoms.
Worked thru the fixturing of the drawer slides on the drawer side. Needs to be brainless…
In parallel I’m assembling drawers like mad. I have clamps enough for 6 at a time. Assemble and dry cycle per 6 is about 30 minutes.
As they come out of the clamps I continued to install certain drawers that would enable me to declutter.
Until I ran out of slides. Remember, I’m using what I’ve recycled from the old house first, I’m now out.
So I shifted to organizing some of my tools in the installed drawers. Old wrench drawer had these custom wrench organizers. Turns out dimensionally they don’t fit…damn it.
So I mocked them up with some basic rails for now.
Per a request, here’s a better shot at how reinforced the box so it could support the weight of the cables. The tab gets welded to the cover and is now supported by lateral bolts.
Had to run down and get another dozen-ish sheets of pre-finished Baltic birch. Enough 1/2” to finish the 65 drawers if cut last weekend.
And spend the following hour cutting drawer bottoms.
Worked thru the fixturing of the drawer slides on the drawer side. Needs to be brainless…
In parallel I’m assembling drawers like mad. I have clamps enough for 6 at a time. Assemble and dry cycle per 6 is about 30 minutes.
As they come out of the clamps I continued to install certain drawers that would enable me to declutter.
Until I ran out of slides. Remember, I’m using what I’ve recycled from the old house first, I’m now out.
So I shifted to organizing some of my tools in the installed drawers. Old wrench drawer had these custom wrench organizers. Turns out dimensionally they don’t fit…damn it.
So I mocked them up with some basic rails for now.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Also loaded up the hardware. Much better than in piles.
Good progress, but feels slow..
Good progress, but feels slow..
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I feels good when it's done! Looking great, Matt!
shakenfake
Well-known member
Are you missing the 9/16s raised panel?
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
It’s around here somewhere. Shops a damn mess and consolidating tools to one of a few shop carts helps a little but not completely. It’ll make its way back when it’s uncovered again. Suspect it’s over by the powder coating project(s).
shakenfake
Well-known member
I was about to have to set you on ignore for that one if true.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Nah, no way! I have I think half a dozen sets and a bunch of extras just in case I end up missing one. I’m covered probably for the rest of my natural life (and a few years after)I was about to have to set you on ignore for that one if true.
shakenfake
Well-known member
Everyone needs at least one set of raised panels.
Bessy
Well-known member
Just bought a couple more Ernst rails to tidy up my cart and sure as **** I can't find my 9/16" Flex ratcheting wrench, or my 9/16-1/2" DOE Slim wrench either. Glad it's not just me!
csp
Well-known member
Are you getting your plywood from Austin Hardwoods?
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lilscorpion
Well-known member
Yes. $80 for a 5x5x1/2 and more like $140-ish I think for 3/4” prefinished Baltic birch.
I like the place. They give about a 20% discount to businesses but can’t get them to give me better deals unless I actually get ab LLC (or whatever). Probably should just do it at some point. I know it’s easy.
grant00
Well-known member
Just file one with the state. It’s very easy and costs $10 to maintain each year with Colorado. I use my LLC as a business at our local welding supply and get gas and consumables for a fraction of the price! Good to know about Austin Hardwoods as well.. They really jack up the welding gas prices on non-businesses.
There are some minimum tax liabilities to consider plus filings to deal with. You just need to do a little homework if the benefits outweigh the expense and additional headaches.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Yeah…that’s why I’ve not done it yet. My preference is to be clean. Besides, I don’t like reports…
csp
Well-known member
I've had an LLC for eight years, which now I only keep for the purpose of getting better deals and purchasing on business accounts that were set up 5+ years ago. My LLC doesn't have any revenue any longer, so I'm not required to file income tax on it. Annual LLC filing with the state is online and takes all of ten minutes and $10 unless you're late, where there's a $50 penalty. I know that one firsthand. Mine also has a retail tax exemption with the state to avoid sales tax, which I would collect from my customers if I had them. I actually did do this legit with customers until a friend offered a position back behind a desk I couldn't refuse.
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Does a sole proprietorship not work? In some, maybe many, states a sole proprietorship doesn't require any registration or filing, as long as you use your name in the business name, such as "John Doe Contracting". If you use a fictitious name such as "Wonderful Contracting", you do have to file for that.
Horror Business
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- Joined
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-lots of questionable legal thoughts in this thread
-lots of questionable tax advice in this thread
-lots of questionable moral positions in this thread
None from the OP.
-lots of questionable tax advice in this thread
-lots of questionable moral positions in this thread
None from the OP.