Line voltage WiFi access points

[yeldogt]

Does someone make an access point that can be direct wired ? Something that can be wired directly to a split electrical box holding 110v on one side and a Cat6 wire on the other side. The Cat6 going back to a switch w/ the modem in the mechanical room. My new house would benefit from this type of set up -- two points high up on the walls looking like a smoke detector in the open areas of the house would give me coverage over all of the building.

It looks like some use the POE -- but then the switch changes to a different type.

Maybe run the Cat6 and low volt power wire back to power supply in mechanical room? I want the access points vs doing a mesh ...

Want something clean vs running the Cat6 out and having the access point sitting someplace with it's power supply plugged in with all the cords.

My other choice is making a plug and hiding them -- say above the cabinet holding the refrigerator and some place else.

It's just the two of us most of the time .... no high crazy usage.

 

[Beemer533]

I would go with a UniFi AP: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015PR20GY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It comes with a PoE injector, so you don't need to buy a different switch.

Setup uses a controller software (it doesn't need to stay running after setup) and you can add as many AP to your setup as you need. These will function as a mesh, as in you can have 3 AP, but you will see only one SSID, or network.

Your cable box needs to be able to provide the routing though (DHCP, etc) as these are only access points.

I have 3 of these exact units in my house and they just work. I had an older set I installed in 2012 and I only upgraded to these for faster speeds. In my experience, they have been very reliable.

 

[BadgeZ28]

Not aware of that exact thing. How about a wifi extender? It plugs into a AC socket and picks up your router signal. Most have a ethernet socket. Once connected to the router, just run a CAT 6 cable to your equipment.

 

[yeldogt]

I would go with a UniFi AP: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015PR20GY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It comes with a PoE injector, so you don't need to buy a different switch.

Setup uses a controller software (it doesn't need to stay running after setup) and you can add as many AP to your setup as you need. These will function as a mesh, as in you can have 3 AP, but you will see only one SSID, or network.

Your cable box needs to be able to provide the routing though (DHCP, etc) as these are only access points.

I have 3 of these exact units in my house and they just work. I had an older set I installed in 2012 and I only upgraded to these for faster speeds. In my experience, they have been very reliable.

Do they make something like that with a stronger power supply ... it seems some comment about not working if the run wire is long?

 

[yeldogt]

Not aware of that exact thing. How about a wifi extender? It plugs into a AC socket and picks up your router signal. Most have a ethernet socket. Once connected to the router, just run a CAT 6 cable to your equipment.

The house is under construction ... with everything open it's easy to just run some extra wires and forget about any signal problems.

 

[MikeF2316]

I would go with PoE access points. If you want to use your existing switch, get power injectors. That way everything that needs power can be kept in one place, all plugged into the same UPS so your network stays up during power failures. And you also don't need to run power up to your access point mounting location.

 

[yeldogt]

I would go with PoE access points. If you want to use your existing switch, get power injectors. That way everything that needs power can be kept in one place, all plugged into the same UPS so your network stays up during power failures. And you also don't need to run power up to your access point mounting location.

All my current stuff is older (apple) ... I just bought a used Airport Extreme off e-bay to replace one of the failed really old airports at my beach house. The Apple stuff is fine and the extreme is actually nice because it does not have a separate power supply hanging on the 110 cord. But -- it's still a box and two cords.

 

[justsam]

I would follow the suggestion of Beemer533. If you are going to have more than one AP I would just spring for a switch that has some number of ports with POE injection. It will be under $100 and you will not have a couple of corded injectors in your mechanical room, taking up space and receptacles.

 

[Beemer533]

Do they make something like that with a stronger power supply ... it seems some comment about not working if the run wire is long?

Not sure about that specific complaint but that should be an isolated problem. Or a poorly made cable.

You should have no issues with the included power supply up to around 300'. At least the spec is 100m/328' anyway.

I've run longer than that for temporary setups with no problems.

Unless you have a 20k sqft mansion, you should be well within the length constraints.

 

[Beemer533]

I would follow the suggestion of Beemer533. If you are going to have more than one AP I would just spring for a switch that has some number of ports with POE injection. It will be under $100 and you will not have a couple of corded injectors in your mechanical room, taking up space and receptacles.

Yeah, I did the same thing at my house, it certainly makes things neater. But the power injector that is included is perfectly fine if you want to stay as cheap as possible.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does someone make an access point that can be direct wired ? Something that can be wired directly to a split electrical box holding 110v on one side and a Cat6 wire on the other side. The Cat6 going back to a switch w/ the modem in the mechanical room. My new house would benefit from this type of set up -- two points high up on the walls looking like a smoke detector in the open areas of the house would give me coverage over all of the building.

Ive never seen one, Ive been in this industry for a long time and i doubt youll find one, what with POE being the primary protocol used for APs. If you have CAT6 going back to a switch then use a POE switch. I dont understand the need for a line voltage powered AP.

Your only other option is use a POE injector at the AP. But that just adds unnecessary points of failure...

It looks like some use the POE -- but then the switch changes to a different type.

Maybe run the Cat6 and low volt power wire back to power supply in mechanical room? I want the access points vs doing a mesh ...

Want something clean vs running the Cat6 out and having the access point sitting someplace with it's power supply plugged in with all the cords.

My other choice is making a plug and hiding them -- say above the cabinet holding the refrigerator and some place else.

It's just the two of us most of the time .... no high crazy usage.

Almost all APs use the POE protocol. but what do you mean by "the switch changes to a different type"? youre gonna have to explain that because it makes no sense.

POE switches power POE powered APs.... so youre not making any sense here...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do they make something like that with a stronger power supply ... it seems some comment about not working if the run wire is long?

Where are you reading these comments?

"run wire is long"?

Define long

Ethernet spec is limited to 100m which is 328' but ive had luck with many devices running on CAT6 that is longer than that even using POE power.

How big is your house? Must be really big to need runs longer than 100m

if the walls are open and you have a place to put an IDF that will make the runs shorter than >100m, then do that and quit worrying about perceived issues based on comments on some internet forum by people who dont know what theyre talking about... BTW I am a licensed communications contractor and do this stuff for a living day in and day out...

 

[MikeF2316]

...

Almost all APs use the POE protocol. but what do you mean by "the switch changes to a different type"? youre gonna have to explain that because it makes no sense.

POE switches power POE powered APs.... so youre not making any sense here...

I read that is he now as a switch that doesn't have PoE, so the different type switch would be one with PoE.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I read that is he now as a switch that doesn't have PoE, so the different type switch would be one with PoE.

then just a buy a new switch. Cheaper to buy a new switch than wasting all this time on useless banter

Netgear unmanaged POE switches are great and they are affordable...

 

[yeldogt]

I read that is he now as a switch that doesn't have PoE, so the different type switch would be one with PoE.

This is correct ....


My last project was about 6 years ago -- it had a simple switches linked together off the FIOS modem and home runs to my office desktops and the 4 AP for the wireless stuff -- two of them being left over Apple Express.

PoE is not something I have needed .... I see it will run lost of stuff.

Who makes a decent switch w/ PoE .. ?

Edit: WD says Netgear

 

[moab11]

if you go with Unifi AP's, get a Unifi switch, then everything is managed by one software program, and one web interface. Quite simple to set up and get running, and their forum is pretty good for help too. your FIOS modem will need to act as a router for these to work, but I believe most home units do work as a router/wifi anyway.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is correct ....


My last project was about 6 years ago -- it had a simple switches linked together off the FIOS modem and home runs to my office desktops and the 4 AP for the wireless stuff -- two of them being left over Apple Express.

PoE is not something I have needed .... I see it will run lost of stuff.

Who makes a decent switch w/ PoE .. ?

Edit: WD says Netgear

yeah Netgear if you dont care about managing it.

OR get a Unifi switch as said above as well as a cloud key, then you can manage the switch and APs all from the same controller. The Unifi equipment is awesome.

 

[loganb]

+1 for PoE switches, have 3 of the UniFi ones in my house and they're awesome...but even if you don't get Ubiquiti go for PoE, run CAT 6 solid copper (not CCA) for all wiring and future proof it. Identify a couple ceiling locations that are centrally located, for example a hallway with all the bedrooms, downstairs living room or the kitchen and run cable to a easy spot in the ceiling to make ceiling mounting the access points easy.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[rlitman]

then just a buy a new switch. Cheaper to buy a new switch than wasting all this time on useless banter

Netgear unmanaged POE switches are great and they are affordable...

A POE switch makes sense if you're installing a bunch of POE devices. If you're only using one or two POE devices, POE injectors are MUCH cheaper.

 

[macwhiz]

PoE is the way to go.

The real question is, what are your options for getting power into that Ethernet?

Most of the Ubiquiti UniFi access points come with a power injector that will let you use your existing switch. For one or two APs, that's fine, but if you have many APs, that's a lot of power bricks and plugs to deal with.

The "commercial grade" answer is an Ethernet switch that supports PoE and has built-in injectors. This is clean, and it gives you the ability to remotely power-cycle the APs from the switch's administrative interface. (That's presuming it's a managed or "smart" switch, which is true of most PoE-equipped switches.) The downside is that PoE switches tend to cost a lot more than the non-PoE equivalent.

A middle ground is to buy a dedicated PoE injector. This is a device that can supply PoE to multiple Ethernet drops. This is usually cheaper than buying a PoE switch, and eliminates the multiple-injector issue (as long as all your devices use the same PoE standard), but lacks the remote-management capability.

For example, say you have 10 devices that need PoE out of 20 devices in your home. 10 separate injectors are not a great solution.

You could buy a 24-port PoE switch. That won't be cheap.

Or you could stick with your existing 24-port switch and buy a 12-port "midspan injector" to power your devices. This will likely cost you less.

You do have to be careful about the PoE protocols, though. Some UniFi devices, particularly older ones, require "passive 24v" PoE. Newer ones, and most cameras, require 48v IEEE 802.3af, the official standard for PoE. Plugging an older 24v UniFi device into an injector that passively injects 802.3af will smoke the UniFi. Keep this in mind if you have such older UniFi devices; most non-UniFi PoE switches don't support Ubiquiti's passive-24v protocol. (If you have many devices that do 802.3af but one or two that are passive 24v, you can get inline step-down adapters for them to convert the 802.3af from your midspan injector to passive 24v. This adds cabling complexity and cost but still reduces the number of AC outlets you need to plug everything in.)

POE Texas makes many styles of midspan injectors. https://www.poetexas.com I've had good luck with their products.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Do they make something like that with a stronger power supply ... it seems some comment about not working if the run wire is long?

Make sure you're using 24awg (or "better" i.e. lower number i.e. thicker) cable.

You can get ethernet cable in a range of approximately 23 through 30 gauge.

23-24 gauge should run POE to a Unifi AP at a reasonable range. 28 maybe not so much.

 

[yeldogt]

Make sure you're using 24awg (or "better" i.e. lower number i.e. thicker) cable.

You can get ethernet cable in a range of approximately 23 through 30 gauge.

23-24 gauge should run POE to a Unifi AP at a reasonable range. 28 maybe not so much.

Are there different qualities of CAT6 wire?

 

[yeldogt]

PoE is the way to go.

The real question is, what are your options for getting power into that Ethernet?

Most of the Ubiquiti UniFi access points come with a power injector that will let you use your existing switch. For one or two APs, that's fine, but if you have many APs, that's a lot of power bricks and plugs to deal with.

The "commercial grade" answer is an Ethernet switch that supports PoE and has built-in injectors. This is clean, and it gives you the ability to remotely power-cycle the APs from the switch's administrative interface. (That's presuming it's a managed or "smart" switch, which is true of most PoE-equipped switches.) The downside is that PoE switches tend to cost a lot more than the non-PoE equivalent.

A middle ground is to buy a dedicated PoE injector. This is a device that can supply PoE to multiple Ethernet drops. This is usually cheaper than buying a PoE switch, and eliminates the multiple-injector issue (as long as all your devices use the same PoE standard), but lacks the remote-management capability.

For example, say you have 10 devices that need PoE out of 20 devices in your home. 10 separate injectors are not a great solution.

You could buy a 24-port PoE switch. That won't be cheap.

Or you could stick with your existing 24-port switch and buy a 12-port "midspan injector" to power your devices. This will likely cost you less.

You do have to be careful about the PoE protocols, though. Some UniFi devices, particularly older ones, require "passive 24v" PoE. Newer ones, and most cameras, require 48v IEEE 802.3af, the official standard for PoE. Plugging an older 24v UniFi device into an injector that passively injects 802.3af will smoke the UniFi. Keep this in mind if you have such older UniFi devices; most non-UniFi PoE switches don't support Ubiquiti's passive-24v protocol. (If you have many devices that do 802.3af but one or two that are passive 24v, you can get inline step-down adapters for them to convert the 802.3af from your midspan injector to passive 24v. This adds cabling complexity and cost but still reduces the number of AC outlets you need to plug everything in.)

POE Texas makes many styles of midspan injectors. https://www.poetexas.com I've had good luck with their products.

Don't think I need that many .... And I did see where there is old and new types from uniFi

 

[yeldogt]

Don't think I will need more than two AP's in the house ... other than maybe a camera watching the driveway and a door bell. I don't see what else I would need to power. I know that some cameras can use the POE

I'm going to run a Cat6 line out to my studio -- but that could use one of the apple units I have around that plug into 110v power. It's about 75 feet away -- could order another matching AP.

I guess it's wise to run a CAT6 line to any TV location (2 or 3) ... and -- I'm going to run a line to where my desktop computers sit .. just because.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Are there different qualities of CAT6 wire?

Yes, but for most purposes it doesn't really matter. But for you it might matter somewhat if you're considering the POE route (which I agree is a good way to go, just don't run thin wire for it)

The two major differences you'll find are the wire gauge (which really only matters for POE, and for thickness of the wire in cases where that matters) and the jacket material, which for cheap wire might be less flexible and more annoying to strip.

You can still get 24 gauge stuff for pretty cheap.

I like Monoprice wire. It is pretty cheap. They offer a variety of types, multiple gauges of wire (including down to 23, but extremely limited selection for 23). The wire jacket is generally not my favorite to work with, but it's "fine". It's definitely not as nice to work with as a brand like Belden would be, but I've used a lot of their cables and a bunch of their bulk cable and it's all functional enough.

(I also use their HDMI cables, but I do NOT recommend some of their other audio-video cables like RCA because the connectors just do not have anywhere NEAR the correct fitment)

 

[loganb]

Don't think I will need more than two AP's in the house ... other than maybe a camera watching the driveway and a door bell. I don't see what else I would need to power. I know that some cameras can use the POE

I'm going to run a Cat6 line out to my studio -- but that could use one of the apple units I have around that plug into 110v power. It's about 75 feet away -- could order another matching AP.

I guess it's wise to run a CAT6 line to any TV location (2 or 3) ... and -- I'm going to run a line to where my desktop computers sit .. just because.

I'm an admitted gadget geek... but if I had the chance to run wiring for my new house build i would likely:

Run to every TV location
Every desktop pc location
If a dedicated office area is going in, put at least one in jack on every wall as to me, extra cords are annoying
Couple to likely locations of access points on the ceiling
To each corner of the soffit to easily enable future security camera installation

Other thing is many people(myself included) pull cabling with the military adage "2 is 1, 1 is none" The marginal cost of pulling two wires to a location vs one is just the cost of cabling which is insignificant compared to the cost and headache of having a cable issue after walls are enclosed.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[TuxThePenguin]

In my last house, I ran 4 CAT6 to the living room and 2 to each bedroom down to a 24-port switch in the basement. Including the switch, all of that cost me probably $300-400, and that was with a nice (for the time) HP ProCurve switch.

I recommend similar for any new installs because it's super inexpensive and it gives flexibility for the future

 

[yeldogt]

In my last house, I ran 4 CAT6 to the living room and 2 to each bedroom down to a 24-port switch in the basement. Including the switch, all of that cost me probably $300-400, and that was with a nice (for the time) HP ProCurve switch.

I recommend similar for any new installs because it's super inexpensive and it gives flexibility for the future

I did a fully wired house 25+ years ago -- it had everything. Two of everything -- phone system -- wired for sound ..speakers all over the place. Controls/ dimmers -- 10's of thousands of dollars. I should have bought more apple stock and less wires.

Each project after had less and less ...

I am going to need a land line phone system as the cell service is so bad and I have to use it for my business ... So ...I'm going to run some for that

 

[Denwood]

I did a fully wired house 25+ years ago -- it had everything. Two of everything -- phone system -- wired for sound ..speakers all over the place. Controls/ dimmers -- 10's of thousands of dollars. I should have bought more apple stock and less wires.

Each project after had less and less ...

I am going to need a land line phone system as the cell service is so bad and I have to use it for my business ... So ...I'm going to run some for that

You can run telephone just fine over Cat6 if you want it simple. I'd just run a couple (2-3) to your office, 3-4 to your entertainment/media center(s) and 1 to each camera location. I run networked printers for the family (just one in my office), and any SmartTV, media streamer etc. will work best if direct wired (hence the extra feeds to those locations) If you're ever planning on doing automation, add a few Cat6 runs to central location(s) for the hub and for your POE access points. It's not a bad idea to have AC as well in these locations for powered devices as automation hubs are generally not POE.

 

[jeepxj]

a unifi access point will come with a POE injector. put that in your network area and power it via POE from the cat6. no need to mess with line voltage at all.