Linear Drain (channel drain) experiences

[Kaizen]

I am beginning a pipe/french drain water management system to stop rivers running through my basement. My property is sloped with my garage/road/driveway area at the top end. This summer we have had a lot of rain which has funnelled down next to my garage and keeps finding its way through my 100 year old fieldstone foundation. I have a dirt basement so its more for health/mold issues that i'm taking these steps.
I just dug out and filled 10 yards of stone in front of the garage. Eventually this will be topped with concrete. I will run a pipe and or french drain down right side of the garage/property which will keep the water away from the house.
First part is at least 2 lenghts of concrete encased drains in front of my garage doors or all 36' of garage. All i have seen locally are a flat bottom but i know there are some that are presloped?
Should these drains be right up to my foundation or is it better to put a foot or so out where the roof overhang drops the rain? On the installs i've seen they have concrete under and around them and it looks like a lot of concrete to mix but i can't find estimated amounts?
Before anyone says it i don't use gutters as i have metal roofs and snow. Just not worth replacing every year when the ice rips them down nor do i like the look.

 

[Skooterj]

Cantilever gate?

 

[Kaizen]

Yes. That was just after getting it from garage onto rollers. Tweaking stage now.

Cantilever gate?

 

[kbs2244]

you need gutters to keep the water from soaking into the ground

 

[FMB4]

Yep, you need; a proper ground level slope away from the structure to aid drainage away from the foundation. This, followed by gutters and gutter extensions to to aid in this is crucial imo.

 

[Kaizen]

you need gutters to keep the water from soaking into the ground

I pointed out i won't be using gutters. The pitch of my roofs on both house and shop would make them a yearly maintenance item. At least once a year the snow slowly crawls over the edge and envelops the gutter and then rips them off or damages them beyond repair.
My questions on this thread are about the use of linear drains at garage doors such as a little lower then slab? how much concrete to set them? etc.

 

[Skooterj]

Did you make the gate? I need a frame for a horizontal wood privacy fence.

 

[FMB4]

At least once a year the snow slowly crawls over the edge and envelops the gutter and then rips them off or damages them beyond repair.

This is known as an 'ice dam' issue which is very common in heavy snow/ice regions. I suggest that you look into "extendable roof rakes".

Again, you need properly graded ground soil around your structure(s) and gutters and gutter extensions. This, followed by routine use a roof rake is your best bet. Btw, French drains will be enveloped by snow and ice just as much as a gutter.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

I pointed out i won't be using gutters. The pitch of my roofs on both house and shop would make them a yearly maintenance item. At least once a year the snow slowly crawls over the edge and envelops the gutter and then rips them off or damages them beyond repair.
My questions on this thread are about the use of linear drains at garage doors such as a little lower then slab? how much concrete to set them? etc.

I’ve seen recommendations from a minimum of 4” concrete below and on either side of the channels to as much as 8”. You should be able to find recommendations from the manufacturer of the drain system you plan to install.

 

[Kaizen]

Did you make the gate? I need a frame for a horizontal wood privacy fence.

Yes. a non moving or hinged fence can use 2x2 angle. PM me if questions.

 

[Kaizen]

I’ve seen recommendations from a minimum of 4” concrete below and on either side of the channels to as much as 8”. You should be able to find recommendations from the manufacturer of the drain system you plan to install.

Thats not bad. One bag for 6 feet if each linear foot is one cubic foot

 

[Kaizen]

This is known as an 'ice dam' issue which is very common in heavy snow/ice regions. I suggest that you look into "extendable roof rakes".

Again, you need properly graded ground soil around your structure(s) and gutters and gutter extensions. This, followed by routine use a roof rake is your best bet. Btw, French drains will be enveloped by snow and ice just as much as a gutter.

I agree with you on ranch style houses. I'm not just talking about an ice dam. On my metal roofs it either builds up and then lets go all at once or.......the situation i'm referring to......it slowly creeps over the edge and the gutter fills up and stops it from dropping. These are the ones that rip it out of the rafter tails. Yes the linear drain will get ice but i believe will begin flowing. If i have a problem where it backs up and makes a pond i can use a roof cable in it. I'm not really concerned about the drain getting filled as it will not get destroyed like gutters here do. Proper grading is important and done. This is the next step.

 

[Lynden]

I've never been a fan of trench drains. Most don't have much water-carrying capacity and they are a pain to maintain. Caltrans uses a drain called a "slot drain." It's a concrete-encased plastic or corrugated metal pipe with an integral slot along the top which extends up to a gutter on the pavement surface. If you've got a lot of water to intercept at the front of your garage or elsewhere on your property, this might be a type of drain to consider.

 

[firebirdparts]

I just made one a year ago. I had no experience, so I just made it look like I wanted it to. I have a shovel that was made to clean out conduit trenches and it's about 4" wide. I made sure my trench was wide enough for my shovel to fit. I made sure it was below the garage, an inch, and sloped the way I wanted it to go. I made sure i could get it apart taking screws out from the inside. Well, mostly.

In my case, rain volume is not really all that impressive, and if it ran over, it still is below the garage. Water could get out without coming in the house. If I had to accurately predict how much water it would carry, I don't know what I would do.

it's got a good 4" of concrete under it and on both sides. It's definitely a weak spot in the driveway, but the surface was very well compacted (under asphalt for 40 years) and so it's been stable so far. Bought a piece of factory floor grating and made my own cover. That was torture. Probably should have just bought lids for it. I was just not satisfied with the factory made items offered for this.

If you do form up something, made or bought, just notice that you'll need to hold it down somehow. it's going to want to float.

 

[matt_i]

I've been trying to design one in my head for the front of my garage, it was either flats or angle irons opposed with pieces of flat or round welded between to keep the center space constant. Pour the flat concrete first, then set the steel on that, screw it down with tapcons to the footer, then pour it full on the sides. I think the typical hot rolled angle will rust out of control and 304 stainless is pretty pricey. Thats essentially where I stopped. The slot needs some pitch and it also needs to increase in cross-section as the volume of water increases the farther you go down the slot, I was also considering how to "tee" out of the side or bottom of the slot into to a 4 to 6" PVC pipe running parallel and on a lower plane that is actually going to carry the bulk of the water.

In my case I need to drive fully loaded forklifts over it and so that drives the need for heavier duty solutions. You can buy them premade engineered for such loads but $150/linear ft is a little out of my budget. The "keyhole cross-section" versions pictured above are inherently weak and I don't want to break it.

 

[jkuro]

How about something like this:

Trench Drain Installation for the Residential Driveway | TrenchDrainBlog.com

Driveway drainage problems are one of the most common problems, and we're breaking down the solution - trench drain installation on existing driveways.

trenchdrainblog.com

 

[Kaizen]

I've never been a fan of trench drains. Most don't have much water-carrying capacity and they are a pain to maintain. Caltrans uses a drain called a "slot drain." It's a concrete-encased plastic or corrugated metal pipe with an integral slot along the top which extends up to a gutter on the pavement surface. If you've got a lot of water to intercept at the front of your garage or elsewhere on your property, this might be a type of drain to consider.

Wow those are huge. One problem i see is cleaning. The grate ones i'm looking at i should be able to easily clean

 

[Kaizen]

I've been trying to design one in my head for the front of my garage, it was either flats or angle irons opposed with pieces of flat or round welded between to keep the center space constant. Pour the flat concrete first, then set the steel on that, screw it down with tapcons to the footer, then pour it full on the sides. I think the typical hot rolled angle will rust out of control and 304 stainless is pretty pricey. Thats essentially where I stopped. The slot needs some pitch and it also needs to increase in cross-section as the volume of water increases the farther you go down the slot, I was also considering how to "tee" out of the side or bottom of the slot into to a 4 to 6" PVC pipe running parallel and on a lower plane that is actually going to carry the bulk of the water.

In my case I need to drive fully loaded forklifts over it and so that drives the need for heavier duty solutions. You can buy them premade engineered for such loads but $150/linear ft is a little out of my budget. The "keyhole cross-section" versions pictured above are inherently weak and I don't want to break it.

i'm definitely doing plastic. I don't have a need for heavy stuff on it and the instructions i've see place the drain lower then concrete so the car tire bridges it. Worst case i can make metal grates once its set in concrete. The ones i'm looking at do not have a slope and if my garage and driveway are dead flat i can't easily see how i would slope these. I'm also wondering about the slope and several T's. At first i thought 2 runs just in front of the doors but then thought why not the whole length? If the whole run is level i'll place Ys in at 2 places to make a second run that will T into the same long drain run.
As the driveway will be lower then the garage if i have any flooding it will just go off the edge in the same direction as the drain pipes.

 

[bigman68]

Aco K100 should if the bill, I see your in the Northeast contact one of the White Cap locations they should have it in stock:

K100

ACO Drain is the world's most globally recognized stainless steel and stainless trench drain systems. This elite status always makes ACO the first choice for prestigious projects in engineered water solutions. The case studies below gives designers, engineers and contractors confidence in using...

www.acodrain.us

 

[rburke65]

i heard you…no gutters….but, I have a shop with a metal 8/12 pitch similar to yours and I HAD to have gutters to pass inspection. The ’gutter man’ guaranteed that the snow would not damage the gutters and for the last 8 winters, here in NE Ohio, he has been correct. Just so you know, they +an be installed to stay. Love the gate!

 

[rsanter]

You do not want the trench drain against the foundation, you want at least a foot away with a decent slope. 3 degrees or a bit more would be good.

It’s expensive and big for residential, but you can look at Duraslope by NDS.
I was an engineer on that project and it’s really good stuff

 

[Kaizen]

i heard you…no gutters….but, I have a shop with a metal 8/12 pitch similar to yours and I HAD to have gutters to pass inspection. The ’gutter man’ guaranteed that the snow would not damage the gutters and for the last 8 winters, here in NE Ohio, he has been correct. Just so you know, they +an be installed to stay. Love the gate!

I really am listening. Worst case i add them after and pipe them into the main runs i'm currently planning to build. Do you have a metal roof? That gate has been a project I've been trying to do for 2 years. Finally in and i'll post a thread sometime about it. I must have 20 threads asking questions from GJ about it.

 

[Kaizen]

You do not want the trench drain against the foundation, you want at least a foot away with a decent slope. 3 degrees or a bit more would be good.

It’s expensive and big for residential, but you can look at Duraslope by NDS.
I was an engineer on that project and it’s really good stuff

Yea thats the best i've seen with the built in slope. At twice the cost might push me away. Looking into flat bottom drains but using 2 or 3 with their own outlets. We'll see.

 

[adrenalinejeeper]

I used a 4" precast presloped drain from Standartpark. It was not cheap by any means, but it felt like the right way to do it and was cheaper and nicer than what any local supplier wanted to sell me. My concrete guy was really impressed with it as well. I did the install of the drain and he poured the concrete. The install was made much easier with a laser level, the drain system uses vertical rebar to hold its brackets that the drain then sits on. It is held in place pretty firm and didn't move at all when the driveway was poured. I have about 4-6" under the precast drain.

Regarding the spacing, I would put it at least a couple feet from the garage with a generous slope from the garage to the drain. At a minimum, this will serve as a backup area if the drain is not flowing for some reason.

 

[budget76]

I just added some drains to my driveway due to 1. nowhere to drain a gutter on the front side of the garage, often flooding the front yard and 2. driveway runoff control

some pics of my scope can be seen on another forum here, i didn't remember to post any final pics https://irate4x4.com/threads/electric-corded-demo-saws-experience.379970/page-2

in general the guide said to dig down 4" deep and have concrete underneath the drain. I didn't do that, too much digging, too much concrete to mix, and I didn't see the need for a generic residential driveway. It was solid ground below, with some sand or stone dust to help level out the trench prior to the drain getting installed and filling with concrete. Did have 3-4" of concrete on either side of it. I hot glued all the drains together at the joints & put tape at the top of the seams, leveled the bottom of the trench so it supported the drain where I wanted it, threw a bunch of rocks in the drain to make sure it didn't try to float, installed the grates, and backfilled each side with concrete.

My driveway was NOT flat, didn't all follow the same pitch, etc. I bit the bullet and added the "L" piece after initially laying out just the long section in front of the doors, it may be an option for you too to capture more water. I used the deep version and it's had zero issues handling 30+ft of gutter runoff + driveway runoff it captures in downpours so far. Very happy I finally did it, now I can start fixing the lawn. zero issues driving either car, or my truck, on it so far.

edit: I either used the RELN, or US Trench Drain brand from Home Depot. Be warned the brands do not play nice, you need parts from 1 or the other. They are nice, but getting the grates out after install is quite difficult. the snap-lock design seems to depend on being able to 'flex' the outside of the drain housing away from the grate, something you obviously can't do once the concrete cures. Takes a little effort with a flathead and a little marring of the drain, but i've gotten a couple off so it IS doable. Also the joints didn't "snap" together well like I thought they would, hence the hot glue to secure the segments together mentioned above

 

[Kaizen]

Thanks for the details guys.