Link Belt use in a reversible tool.

[Beerhippie]

I'm in the final stages of my drill press restomod project. I've eliminated about 70% of the vibration with the various changes I've made. It seems that the V belt is responsible for a large portions of the rest as it takes a set that takes a lot of running before it warms up and settles down.

I've been thinking about trying a link belt to eliminate most of that. I've been aware of them for many years, but haven't actually used one. Prices are now reasonable--comparable to the cost of a good V belt.

But the DP is reversible. I set it up that way for use with left-handed bits. How will a directional belt like the link belts deal with that? 99% of the time, the press will be running forward, but when I need to tackle a broken bolt, it may be running in reverse for several minutes with a pretty heavy load on.

Anyone have any experience with using a link belt on a reversible tool?

TIA--

 

[Sumboodie]

Link Belt as I know it is an excavator or crane.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Can you just reverse the belt for the minimal times you reverse the motor? It has to come off the pulleys when you change speeds anyhow.

 

[Beerhippie]

Can you just reverse the belt for the minimal times you reverse the motor? It has to come off the pulleys when you change speeds anyhow.

The press uses a variable-speed DC motor and controller, so I (hopefully) don't have to open the hood anymore. I guess having to reverse the belt occasionally wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the press may get used by my co-workers as it's in the brewery shop--or it may not, as they seem to be as afraid of the drill press as they are of me.

 

[Firebrick43]

Use an AX profile belt.

Cheaper(less than half the price), better power transmission, low vibration, and won't wear pulleys like a link belt.

 

[Beerhippie]

Use an AX profile belt.

Cheaper(less than half the price), better power transmission, low vibration, and won't wear pulleys like a link belt.

But does it take a set like the new belt I just bought? That's what's causing my vibration.

Of course, I had to buy the belt at NAPA, which is not only the most expensive place around but can't be bothered to use industry standard labeling:





What profile is that? I know it's 1/2".

Part of my problem is that my motor sheave is only 1" dia, so the belt really takes a set there. The drill press gets used maybe once or twice day in normal times.

 

[Firebrick43]

But does it take a set like the new belt I just bought? That's what's causing my vibration.

Of course, I had to buy the belt at NAPA, which is not only the most expensive place around but can't be bothered to use industry standard labeling:





What profile is that? I know it's 1/2".

Part of my problem is that my motor sheave is only 1" dia, so the belt really takes a set there. The drill press gets used maybe once or twice day in normal times.

First on your driven sheave your belt profile is wrong. You’re using an HC 41 belt (which is an automotive standard and doesn't match industrial profiles) and that sheave (without being there to measure) is an industrial A cross section.



Running a belt to small in width let’s the nose of the belt run in the bottom of the sheave causing all kinds of funky things. V belts are expressly designed to run on there sides.

Second, I am not sure why your motor pulley is 1” in diameter. The minimum recommended diameter period for a belt is 2.2" in diameter.

https://www.gates.com/content/dam/g...logs/heavy_duty_vbelt_drive_design_manual.pdf

Page B4 (16)




Link V belting actually has a larger minimum Diameter of 80mm or 3.150" for an A size belt.

https://www.jasonindustrial.com/wp-content/uploads/Accu-Link-Adjustable-Link-V-Belts.pdf

Page 5

Most of the time highspeed low diameter sheaves on equipment was run by round belting. 1/2" urethane belts are available. They are made by cutting to length and glueing with heat.

The bad part is they are not high torque belts, great for high speed, you really need better size sheave on the motor.

 

[Beerhippie]

First on your driven sheave your belt profile is wrong. You’re using an HC 41 belt (which is an automotive standard and doesn't match industrial profiles) and that sheave (without being there to measure) is an industrial A cross section.



Running a belt to small in width let’s the nose of the belt run in the bottom of the sheave causing all kinds of funky things. V belts are expressly designed to run on there sides.

Second, I am not sure why your motor pulley is 1” in diameter. The minimum recommended diameter period for a belt is 2.2" in diameter.

https://www.gates.com/content/dam/g...logs/heavy_duty_vbelt_drive_design_manual.pdf

Page B4 (16)




Link V belting actually has a larger minimum Diameter of 80mm or 3.150" for an A size belt.

https://www.jasonindustrial.com/wp-content/uploads/Accu-Link-Adjustable-Link-V-Belts.pdf

Page 5

Most of the time highspeed low diameter sheaves on equipment was run by round belting. 1/2" urethane belts are available. They are made by cutting to length and glueing with heat.

The bad part is they are not high torque belts, great for high speed, you really need better size sheave on the motor.

Thanks for all that! I'm no belt expert, by a long shot!

I got the tiny pulley for the motor because I really need all the speed reduction I can get. The treadmill motor I'm using is a high-speed motor and likes to run FAST. I want low spindle speeds for the drill press, and don't have much room--or money--for intermediate speed-reduction pulleys.

With the roughly 1:5 speed reduction I have, I get good torque at pretty low spindle speeds.

I've used that urethane round belt many years ago. My heat-welds were pretty much a failure.

Would flat belt be a better way to go?

 

[Beerhippie]

I just checked, and yes, the sheaves I'm using are for A profile belts. The motor sheave is 1.55", so still tiny, but not as bad as I thought.

I took the old A profile belt that came with the press to our local NAPA and that one above is what they gave me. I guess they don't know any more about belts than I do.

Now to figure out how to size a belt.... Running a cloth tape around the outside of the belt, it's 34 inches, but no idea how that translates to belt size.

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks for all that! I'm no belt expert, by a long shot!

I got the tiny pulley for the motor because I really need all the speed reduction I can get. The treadmill motor I'm using is a high-speed motor and likes to run FAST. I want low spindle speeds for the drill press, and don't have much room--or money--for intermediate speed-reduction pulleys.

With the roughly 1:5 speed reduction I have, I get good torque at pretty low spindle speeds.

I've used that urethane round belt many years ago. My heat-welds were pretty much a failure.

Would flat belt be a better way to go?

I like polyvee/microvee belts (most people know as serpentine) and they have some small profiles. I started converting reeves drive machine tools to it and I made most of my own sheaves. Of course that would require some lathe work.

Current project that I need to finish the last step sheave.

I just checked, and yes, the sheaves I'm using are for A profile belts. The motor sheave is 1.55", so still tiny, but not as bad as I thought.

I took the old A profile belt that came with the press to our local NAPA and that one above is what they gave me. I guess they don't know any more about belts than I do.

Now to figure out how to size a belt.... Running a cloth tape around the outside of the belt, it's 34 inches, but no idea how that translates to belt size.

Page B66 (78) of the gate manual above shows it. Basically for an A series belt knock two off the outside diameter so it would be an AX32. However it will be moved out in the sheave so will need to be larger. Is the 34 inches the current belt or what it would be if running towards the outside?

 

[darkzero]

On my lathe which is reversible I'm using Fenner Power Twist link belts. They are also directional & not recommended to run in reverse.

It runs perfectly fine in reverse, no slipping, & I haven't noticed any affect on the condition of the belts (dual pulleys). Been running the same ones for well over 10 yrs now. It's just a bit noisier running in reverse. Well possibly not actually noisier but a different sound, I'm calling it slightly noisier.

I've only used Fenner Power Twists belts though & on other things. But none of the others can run in reverse.

 

[American Locomotive]

I have a belt sander that has a small pulley on one end, maybe 1.75" diameter. It had the same issue with the belt taking a set and having a bad vibration. I switched to an AX profile belt with the teeth, and it was a huge improvement.

 

[Beerhippie]

Well, I ordered an AX profile belt that I hope will fit. Much cheaper than the NAPA belt. Less than half the price.

Remembering why NAPA is my choice of last resort....

 

[Beerhippie]

I like polyvee/microvee belts (most people know as serpentine) and they have some small profiles. I started converting reeves drive machine tools to it and I made most of my own sheaves. Of course that would require some lathe work.

Current project that I need to finish the last step sheave.





Page B66 (78) of the gate manual above shows it. Basically for an A series belt knock two off the outside diameter so it would be an AX32. However it will be moved out in the sheave so will need to be larger. Is the 34 inches the current belt or what it would be if running towards the outside?

I'd like to go with a micro-v someday, But for now, I'm running out of funds and steam on this restomod project. I'll have a working drill pres, even if it eats belts and shakes some.

 

[isr2kba]

On my lathe which is reversible I'm using Fenner Power Twist link belts. They are also directional & not recommended to run in reverse.

It runs perfectly fine in reverse, no slipping, & I haven't noticed any affect on the condition of the belts (dual pulleys). Been running the same ones for well over 10 yrs now. It's just a bit noisier. Well possibly not actually noisier but a different sound, I'm calling it slightly noisier.

I've only used Fenner Power Twists belts though & on other things. But none of the others can run in reverse.

I have similar experience running one for years on a 9” lathe. Though I don’t use it a lot, I sometimes run it hard, and when something slips it’s almost never the belt.

I don’t know the brand but I got it from the industrial supply house that doesn’t sell any junk, lol.

They don’t run silent.

 

[Beerhippie]

Well, this is weird.

I'm asking questions here about drive belts. I'm also watching dumb videos (actually, some pretty instructive videos) on YouTube. I have not searched nor watched any videos about drive belts, but suddenly, they show up in my feed.

Coincidence?

 

[darkzero]

Coincidence?

Nope, "they're" watching you!

 

[Firebrick43]

Well, this is weird.

I'm asking questions here about drive belts. I'm also watching dumb videos (actually, some pretty instructive videos) on YouTube. I have not searched nor watched any videos about drive belts, but suddenly, they show up in my feed.

Coincidence?

not at all.

Last year I was at the John deere dealer buying parts. On the way out my son wanted to sit on one of the 5000 series tractors. I was bombarded with adds for that exact model of tractor after that.

They are watching you.

 

[cycle61]

Not a coincidence.

 

[dogdog]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A9ZNDJQ?tag=atomicindus08-20

I used these linked belt on the jet drill press from (belt is from HF) harbor freight same brand cheaper by $10. No problem on reversing. It’s just the same dp motor and hardwired to DPDT to run both direction. No issues with the belt running in reverse or forward. But I don't have any extensive hours on running the drill press in reverse for hours... of uses. It runs fine so far 5 or 8 years ? those belts used to cost $25..

just make sure your belts are A or B.... not 100% but I think the red color accu-link is A and the green is B... most drill press are B belt though even though some pullys would fit A or B. so... or was it the green color fits A or B and that red color is V or something....

 

[seber]

Power twist belts run fine in reverse until you get to smaller pulleys. That is where the problems start. Honestly, with a pulley that small, the only real solution is poly vee. Even that will have a shorter life than normal.

 

[Beerhippie]

Since I want to keep the reduction I have, and need to work within the space I have, I'm keeping the small pulley on the motor.

But I did order an AX34 belt and it arrived today. A little longer than I wanted, but it still fits. The drillpress is noticeably quieter now.

My only other option for the speed reduction I want/need would be to have an intermediate double-stack sheave custom built for it.

 

[Beerhippie]

I went with option d) None, all, or some of the above.

I bought a lower speed motor, a little larger (2") drive pulley, and now the DP is unstoppable! Biggest problem I now have is slop in the motor mount allowing the belt to slip in the drive pulley. Still using an AX belt.