Little help with interior walls - please. (pics)

[bens]

I am planning to put a small 15' x 42' apartment in my pole barn. This will be my first framing experience, so please excuse me if I'm not using the correct terms.
Between my family and friends, I've heard lots of different opinions on how I should tackle this project. So I decided to take it to the pros... you guys.

Here's the deal. The second truss (from the exterior wall) is where I want to put the interior wall. It's highlighted in red. Trusses are 9'9" high at ends and 10'8' at the peak.

I figure I can either go with a "cathederal" ceiling and attach the new ceiling joists directly to the trusses or I can just put in a "flat" 9' ceiling and not attach it to the trusses.

I don't think I care either way. The flat ceiling might offer a little more storage. But I'm not sure if it's the easiest way.

Once I decide on my approach, I'll ask more specific questions.

How would you guys do this? Comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks!
-ben

^Pic from opposite end of barn

^detail of trusses

^apartment will be left 15' of barn, including window

^final plan

 

[Kevin54]

Personally I would not attach the ceiling to the existing rafter. I would probably build the walls and add new ceiling joist. The reason being that the rafters that you have are few and far between and I would venture to say not really engineered for the extra weight that you are talking. To add ceiling joist to it and then to add drywall on top of that may exceed or probably would exceed manufacturers specs. Trusses are designed for certain loads and to exceed that is not a good thing. And being in Indy, you can get some pretty good snows, so in a bad winter consiider the snow load, extra rafter weight, and extra drywall weight. Would only a couple of trusses handle that. Really only a structural engineer could tell you. I'd rather be safe than sorry on down the road.

Kevin

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

I agree with Kevin; I would frame a separate 8' ceiling.

Besides taking the extra weight off the trusses, you can make it strong enough to support some good storage space overhead, and you can more easily do an adequate job of insulating the living quarters, separate from any insulating you may do in the balance of the structure.

Then, your wallboard will be standard 8' stuff with no waste... bonus.

 

[boiler7904]

Definitely wouldn't attach to the trusses. Unless you have engineering drawings for the building, the trusses aren't designed to support or stabilize walls below.

I'd frame either 8' or 9' tall walls with precut studs (makes sheetrock easier later) and then a deck of 2 x 12s at 16" o.c. with 3/4" tongue and groove plywood decking to allow for some decent storage space. You may also have to use that deck for a water heater or furnace for the apartment.

A couple of other things I noticed about your plan:

Is this going through the normal permit and inspection process? If so, I can almost guarantee that you will be required to have an emergency egress (door or window to the exterior) from the bedroom in addition to the door to the kitchen you already show.

I'd consider flipping the bathroom vanity to the same wall as the toilet so that you can tie into that waste line without additional slab cutting and another vent through the roof. Will also save on running the supply lines.

 

[W-Cummins]

You are going to want/need at least an one hour firewall it will need to extend to the bottom of the roof sheeting. Also a fire door where you show the pocket door ( I have never seen a fire rated pocket door so good luck there)

William...

 

[bens]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going with the 8' (or 9') ceiling.

Boiler: Zoned agricultural and this won't be a residence, more of an office with a bathroom. The county seemed more concerned about the septic than anything else.
I forgot to mention the plumbing has already been roughed in.

Cummins: The pocket doors were just on the plan. I'll put in something more regular and I'll keep the fire door in mind.

Everyone: This place will be more like an occasional weekend get away, not a residence. I wanted a comfortable place for the the old-ball-n-chain* while I'm playing. Also I needed a bathroom for the occasional race party. Plus it just seemed like a fun project.

I was thinking something more rustic and hoping to avoid doing drywall work. I was hoping to insulate and then get my hands on some old barn wood (or something with that kind of look). I'm picturing more of an old western saloon or log cabin look.

I guess I should give more thought to the safety factor of drywall. Would I be way off base skipping the sheetrock and just hanging wood?
Nothing crazy going on in the barn, just wood working and storage of boats/atv's/tractor. But it only takes one accident.

Thanks to everyone. As expected, you guys are a lot of help.
Keep the comments coming.

* Note: she's not old and technically she's not my ball and chain yet... 7 weeks till we're married.

 

[1320stang]

I agree with the above comments. You could add a door from the bedroom to the shop. Is the living room closet for a split A/C system or are you putting in a dual use window unit?

And, if you don't mind my asking, what do you have $$wise in the place as it sits in the second pic? I'm wanting to do a 40x60 in my backyard as well.

 

[cj7jeep81]

I'm also interested in price (if you don't mind). And who did the work? I live about an hour southeast of Indy, and am wanting to put up a shop (although I don't think I'll be able to go that big, probably 40x40). You can PM me if you want.

 

[C_F]

Man, that's a beautiful looking structure, I've already had to wipe drool off my desk twice.

Is this pole barn at a different location from your house? How do you deal with security issues?

 

[bens]

Haven't really figured out the AC yet if there will be any. Thinking maybe baseboard heaters. I'd like to heat the rest of the barn as well, which I'll save for another post.

Morton did the building. Includes only the structure (not concrete, site work, or utilities). 42' x 75'. 10' and 15' ceilings. ~$55k. I try not to think about that part... thanks for dredging up old painful memories... I will say they did a great job. No complaints about the building.

Thanks CF. The barn is about 25 minutes from my house. I've been debating the security. So far I've done nothing and had no problems. The barn sits on 10 acres of woods (lots of walnut trees) and is mildly secluded. Land is in the middle of no where, although I do get a few mushroom hunters wondering around. My neighbor keeps an eye on it, but he's at the other end of the woods.
Oh Great, now I've gone and got myself worked up about a security system...

 

[bens]

As shown by the red lines below, the ceiling joists will span 15'. Can they run that long with only end support?

Sorry for what I'm sure is an elementary framing question.

 

[Kevin54]

Check this out and see if it helps. It is a span table for joist and rafters. Just click on one of the small green numbers in the span table to open up a PDF chart http://www.southernpine.com/spantables.shtml

 

[bens]

Thanks Kevin. According to those charts, it looks like the ceiling joists will need to be 2x6's to span 15'.

Does that sound right to everyone? Or is there another approach I should be thinking about?

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[dipper]

2x6 @ 16" o.c. should work. 2x8 would be overkill but not much more money. I just did 2x10x20's on my garage for the span between the side walls.

Nice build by the way.

 

[boiler7904]

Thanks Kevin. According to those charts, it looks like the ceiling joists will need to be 2x6's to span 15'.

Does that sound right to everyone? Or is there another approach I should be thinking about?

Thanks for everyone's help.

Looking at chart 17 from that link, 2x6s at 16" o.c. would work but that does not leave any strucutral capacity for plywood decking and storage above.

If you go to chart 18, you would need to go to 2x8s at 16" o.c. to have the option of using the deck as light storage.

Keep in mind the grade of lumber that you need to use to achieve to spans shown on that table. A 2x6 grade #1 or SS could cost as much or more than a 2x8 #2 depending on the lumber yard.

The other thing to consider is that both of these charts are using a deflection limit of L/240. You will get a lot of sag (about 3/4" when spanning the full 15') in the ceiling going with that criteria.

Personally, I'd build for the worst case scenario which is table 1 from that link. That would mean #2 2x8 at 16" o.c. (allowable span = 15'-7" with deflection at L/360) You also end up with the ability to use the attic for storage.

 

[Mandres]

you could also look into engineered I-joists for the ceiling.

 

[1320stang]

Morton builds damn fine buildings. My dad had a few put up in the late 70's.

The 2x6 is just for insulation and drywall, with no storage. In fact, if you walked on it, you'd likely crack all your draywall joints.