Living in a shop

[Sumboodie]

I'm looking at selling my 3 bed 2 bath 2+ car garage house on 1/2 an acre and buying a property that is ~4.5 acres with just a 30x40x14 shop on it.

The shop has an apartment that was built inside with the idea of temp living while a house would be built. The house never got beyond the driveway and site prep stage.

The thought is the $$ from the house sale would cover this property and either pay down my mortgage or leave me with enough to start on a house build.

I'm not sure if I'm crazy or it makes sense?!

"Unique opportunity to create your dream setup on 4.41 acres. This property would be easy to subdivide into 2 or 3 separate parcels. The 30'x42' shop on site was built in 2015 and is currently setup with living quarters (413 sq ft), kitchen, laundry and a bedroom. The Shop has 14 ft ceilings, 2-13' overhead doors, 14' Mezzanine, its own septic and well, and gas in floor heat The main building site will feature north facing views, has improvements for a future foundation and in ground plumbing for a large two story home and is connected to a 2500 gallon septic system. The third building site sits on the corner of xyz road. Driveway is in and there is a 3rd septic system on site. Originally setup for a future duplex. Shop septic is a 1250 gallon deep trench See photo on the listing for possible options to subdivide. The homesite is on the northside of the camper. It sits on the same elevation as the shop and faces north for views of Bald mountain. Camper will be removed prior to closing. Have your shop space and homesite on the same parcel and subdivide off the rest. The living space in the garage was setup to be temporary once the house was built. Walls and improvements could easily be removed. Commercial use will be restricted by City of zoning depending on the type of business you might want. Buyer to verify all requirements for their intended use with the City direct. Zoning is RR.

 

[jh87]

I would verify it’s legal to live in the apartment first, but assuming it is, and as long as it works for you, I don’t see any reason not to go for it.

 

[ericm]

I'd also verify with the county that the shop and apartment was built fully legal with permits and the project signed off. And that it's subdivideable. Even if you don't, it adds value when you sell. That "Buyer to verify" clause means that all the statements could be wrong.

 

[SmackinHondas]

I’d want to know why the house never got built beyond prep site. Ran out of money? Okay sure. Permits couldn’t be approved because of xyz? Maybe not.

Also if you plan on financing… good luck. In my experience, no mortgage company wants to deal with that kind of property.

 

[dcg9381]

The issue will be financing it as it's not currently residential. You may be able to purchase it as land + improvement, but I don't think you'll get a traditional mortgage on it. Perhaps a construction loan if you're going to build short term.

We lived in our shop for about 1.5 years. We used a chemical toilet and had an RV on site (in the building). We did fine although living there was a little spartan for a while - I did manage to get HVAC and and a kitchen in before we moved in. It was a little rocky in the winter when freezing temps hit 20-year low records - main issue was keeping the water flowing.

We owned the land and shop outright, but eventually financed construction for a residence. I'm pretty sure I was breaking the financing rules by living on site during construction.

Here, our septic requirements are very specific (require engineering, permitting, and substantial inspection) - septic capacity must match the structure(s) that the septic serves. So if you were here, you'd want to pay attention to that.. Elsewhere, not such a big deal.

Buyer to verify all requirements for their intended use with the City direct. Zoning is RR.

This is a generic disclaimer meaning that the Realtor listing it has no idea what is allowed. Here, RR zoning would mean that to live that the structure would need to meet residential requirements for construction type - it's unlikely that a steel building (or pole barn) is an allowed "residential" structure type. But can you get away with it? I see it done all the time...

 

[u2slow]

Find out if a standard mortgage can be applied to the property. It may be a "builders mortgage" that ran it's course and no acceptable dwelling got built in time. Bank steps in and liquidates.

 

[jack stand]

I would guess that in AK this is not as out of the "ordinary" as some of the responses may think, there's still places in this country where every inch of your existence does not require an official proctologist approval.
I'd still check with the local govt. responsible for these things to avoid any suprises down the road. You didn't explain much about your circumstances, but I'd say move right in then plan your changes. You're already out of the weather so any changes would really be an interior remodel.

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you're single, that kind of lifestyle may limit your dating prospects.

 

[Rc_Guy]

We live in a pole barn house so it sounds like something we would like, our living space is only 1500 sqft, financing was easy once we found a bank that would finance a pole barn house, not many will around me.

Like others have said, make sure septic is sized for the size house you would like to build.

 

[Sumboodie]

The issue will be financing it as it's not currently residential. You may be able to purchase it as land + improvement, but I don't think you'll get a traditional mortgage on it. Perhaps a construction loan if you're going to build short term.

We lived in our shop for about 1.5 years. We used a chemical toilet and had an RV on site (in the building). We did fine although living there was a little spartan for a while - I did manage to get HVAC and and a kitchen in before we moved in. It was a little rocky in the winter when freezing temps hit 20-year low records - main issue was keeping the water flowing.

We owned the land and shop outright, but eventually financed construction for a residence. I'm pretty sure I was breaking the financing rules by living on site during construction.

Here, our septic requirements are very specific (require engineering, permitting, and substantial inspection) - septic capacity must match the structure(s) that the septic serves. So if you were here, you'd want to pay attention to that.. Elsewhere, not such a big deal.


This is a generic disclaimer meaning that the Realtor listing it has no idea what is allowed. Here, RR zoning would mean that to live that the structure would need to meet residential requirements for construction type - it's unlikely that a steel building (or pole barn) is an allowed "residential" structure type. But can you get away with it? I see it done all the time...

RR is rural residential. They say that so if someone would want it for a business, let's say truck repair, it's not currently zoned for it.

 

[Sumboodie]

If you're single, that kind of lifestyle may limit your dating prospects.

Yes, but don't care at this point. I make me happy and others can adapt or go away.

 

[Sumboodie]

I would guess that in AK this is not as out of the "ordinary" as some of the responses may think, there's still places in this country where every inch of your existence does not require an official proctologist approval.
I'd still check with the local govt. responsible for these things to avoid any suprises down the road. You didn't explain much about your circumstances, but I'd say move right in then plan your changes. You're already out of the weather so any changes would really be an interior remodel.

I'm not 100% on this one as I think it's in city limits.
I.live outside the limits and we do what we want. Only permits needed are driveway and septic... and often those aren't even filed.

 

[engineer2]

Codes vary so much, it's best to check with your local government. On GJ you'll get opinions based on where the poster lives.
Around here people avoid permits whenever possible.

 

[u2slow]

I live outside city limits too, but all the city-type rules about building/zoning are in full force (regional district rules.) You can only maybe get away with stuff if you have wooded acreage with restricted access so nobody can see what you're doing. Google earth would still rat you out though...

 

[My Old Tools]

I did it in east Texas. No problem to finance, no permits needed outside of city limits. I started with a 30x80 metal building and built a 2 bedroom apartment inside, 1130sf. I lived there 10 years and put my daughter through Harvard with the money I saved. I did most of the work myself other than the shell. Sold it for about triple a few years ago. I did move up to a 4 bedroom brick home to get my wife to marry me .

 

[Pluribus]

Keeping it simple without all the, "Whatabouts" and "Whatifs" I'd go for it if it suits your needs and makes sense financially. It sounds like it does, and it's something I'd be willing to do myself.

 

[marak]

If I didn't have to work in the city (drive time 2.5 miles to/from work) I would live in the bush and in my shop. Heck, I basically live in one or the other shop as it is...eating most meals at the workbench, cat has her towel, food, and water bowls at one end of the workbench, and I sometimes don't enter the living room but a few times a month. Only go upstairs/in the house to shower and sleep and #2.

I have a friend who lived in his shop...no house. He slept on a cot, that is, until he found a good deal on an optical comparator. That won over the space for the cot He then cleared space on a shelf in the storage room and voilà, space for a sleeping bag. He was in his upper 40's, but happy as a clam at high tide!

And I agree, a future girlfriend/wife would have to adapt or head on down the road.

 

[kbeefy]

I'd do it!

What town/area?

 

[yeldogt]

If I didn't have to work in the city (drive time 2.5 miles to/from work) I would live in the bush and in my shop. Heck, I basically live in one or the other shop as it is...eating most meals at the workbench, cat has her towel, food, and water bowls at one end of the workbench, and I sometimes don't enter the living room but a few times a month. Only go upstairs/in the house to shower and sleep and #2.

I have a friend who lived in his shop...no house. He slept on a cot, that is, until he found a good deal on an optical comparator. That won over the space for the cot He then cleared space on a shelf in the storage room and voilà, space for a sleeping bag. He was in his upper 40's, but happy as a clam at high tide!

And I agree, a future girlfriend/wife would have to adapt or head on down the road.

best plan on being solo !

 

[kj_mustang]

Did it at my current home with a family. Bought 10 acres of rural agricultural zoned land with a loan from a Farm Credit Lender. Used Home Equity loan on our then home and savings to put the down payment on the property and build my pole building. Installed septic system sized for the future home and well and tied both into pole building first. Sold house, moved into building, hired contractor and built the house which took about 1.5 years using a home construction loan from a local bank which required paying off the land loan so they would be the first lien holder. Once home was finished and I got a Occupancy Permit, the local bank rolled the construction loan into a conventional mortgage loan. After doing all this, the only thing I would change if I was to do it again would be to use a different home contractor.

 

[firebirdparts]

I'm not sure if I'm crazy or it makes sense?!

It makes a ton of sense to live on a site and build a house there. It's extremely handy. That said, you have your own rules in Alaska, obviously. It's an extreme location and you know better than we do how much of the work you'd do yourself and how well-suited the site is for economical building. I don't even know what RR is, but I assume you aren't asking that. If you need to borrow money, you'd have to talk to the bank about all the details. If they know there's a failed project on there they'll be worried about liens senior to them.

I am naïve about Alaska, but the last thing I would have ever asked for is permission from the government. I didn't think that was real big there.

 

[ez-duzit]

I'm looking at selling my 3 bed 2 bath 2+ car garage house on 1/2 an acre and buying a property that is ~4.5 acres with just a 30x40x14 shop on it.

The shop has an apartment that was built inside with the idea of temp living while a house would be built...

Sounds like a good plan. You don't really need more than that.

 

[dcg9381]

If you're single, that kind of lifestyle may limit your dating prospects.

Oh I dunno, I consider it an appropriate "screening tool" for those with potential... One hell of a woman lived with me in a barn for 1.5 years! She may or may not have gotten the kitchen of her dreams out of it eventually, so I'd call it a fair trade.

I've seen some spectacular hangers / bardos that don't look like much on the outside. It's a great "tax shelter" for property tax states. My barn is valued at about $.30 on the dollar cost to build..

 

[Metal-Marc]

Oh I dunno, I consider it an appropriate "screening tool" for those with potential... One hell of a woman lived with me in a barn for 1.5 years!

How many missing teeth did she have?

 

[dcg9381]

How many missing teeth did she have?

Good question. I'm in Texas, not Arkansas. As she was on a billboard downtown, chances are that I'm doing far better than I deserve to be doing.

Clearly there is no accounting for a woman's taste.

 

[Sumboodie]

It makes a ton of sense to live on a site and build a house there. It's extremely handy. That said, you have your own rules in Alaska, obviously. It's an extreme location and you know better than we do how much of the work you'd do yourself and how well-suited the site is for economical building. I don't even know what RR is, but I assume you aren't asking that. If you need to borrow money, you'd have to talk to the bank about all the details. If they know there's a failed project on there they'll be worried about liens senior to them.

I am naïve about Alaska, but the last thing I would have ever asked for is permission from the government. I didn't think that was real big there.

It's Rural Residential.

I'm slightly concerned with that as I plan to run my firewood operation there. Which "technically" is a commercial operation. I think with the low volume I'm doing these days (very part time, as I work 2 full time jobs) it's not really a problem.

A lien research (sorry can't remember the exact name for it) is part of the closing process. One of those alphabet letters of fees that are all rolled into closing costs. The bank seemed to be on board with everything since the place is being considered a single family residence and 4 car garage.
Basically it's a garage with attached house so to speak.

 

[HPRifleman]

That listing shows other properties nearby with new construction that is more "conventional" in nature. Is there risk that, over time, the municipality would change the zoning designation from R.R. to something else? This may force you to improve the property and remove the opportunity to run a business there.

Those of us from the lower 48 may think of Alaska as a wide open frontier but we are talking about the Anchorage area here and that may be more civilized than TV would have us believe.

 

[yeldogt]

Did it at my current home with a family. Bought 10 acres of rural agricultural zoned land with a loan from a Farm Credit Lender. Used Home Equity loan on our then home and savings to put the down payment on the property and build my pole building. Installed septic system sized for the future home and well and tied both into pole building first. Sold house, moved into building, hired contractor and built the house which took about 1.5 years using a home construction loan from a local bank which required paying off the land loan so they would be the first lien holder. Once home was finished and I got a Occupancy Permit, the local bank rolled the construction loan into a conventional mortgage loan. After doing all this, the only thing I would change if I was to do it again would be to use a different home contractor.

You should keep this so you can post when people ask how -- that's a lot of hoops to jump through with plenty of pitfalls possible along the way.

 

[kj_mustang]

The biggest issues for this type of project from most lender's perspective is land size and Loan to Value ratios. Large acres of land make the mortgage harder to sell on the secondary market and the lenders will usually want to lend a lesser amount (80-85% LTV vs 95% LTV) to hedge their risk.

 

[dcg9381]

That listing shows other properties nearby with new construction that is more "conventional" in nature. Is there risk that, over time, the municipality would change the zoning designation from R.R. to something else? This may force you to improve the property and remove the opportunity to run a business there.

As long as the business existed (and was allowed under RR), a zoning change grandfathers the appropriate use of that property, even if the zoning changes. If an "allowed" business had not been established or not in operation, that's a different matter.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

If you're single, that kind of lifestyle may limit your dating prospects.

And if you're married it may lead to becoming single.

 

[marak]

And if you're married it may lead to becoming single.

And if you are or become single it may lead to happiness.

 

[dcg9381]

The biggest issues for this type of project from most lender's perspective is land size and Loan to Value ratios. Large acres of land make the mortgage harder to sell on the secondary market and the lenders will usually want to lend a lesser amount (80-85% LTV vs 95% LTV) to hedge their risk.

What is a "large acre of land"? I thought the very standard LTV was 80%.. Maybe we didn't learn our lesson from last go-round of the mortgage crisis?

Here, 1-5 acre lots are at an absolute premium, with the "average" lot size being 1/4 acre. The other multiplier is "distance from <major city>". The advantage that you get with larger lots (7+ acres) is that you can often get an ag-exemption on them that borders on criminal. The taxes on my 2 acre lot cost 500% more than a buddies 10-acre lot, as he can claim "ag exempt" by keeping bees. Is he a farmer? Hell no, he just pays someone about $2k a year to take care of a few bee-hives on the property and does the appropriate paperwork.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

And if you are or become single it may lead to happiness.

Life is a circle.

 

[Forgottonia]

Don't listen to any of the naysayers! Do it!!

 

[nadogail]

I lived in Anchorage. Alaska all of my Teen Years and until a month before my 22nd birthday. I saw more than a few "Hope Houses". A Hope House is where they put in a basement and the sub floor, cover the ground floor sub floor with tar paper and move in to the basement while they Hope they can put together what it will take to build the above ground portion.

 

[Uncle murph]

I'm looking at selling my 3 bed 2 bath 2+ car garage house on 1/2 an acre and buying a property that is ~4.5 acres with just a 30x40x14 shop on it.

The shop has an apartment that was built inside with the idea of temp living while a house would be built. The house never got beyond the driveway and site prep stage.

The thought is the $$ from the house sale would cover this property and either pay down my mortgage or leave me with enough to start on a house build.

I'm not sure if I'm crazy or it makes sense?!

"Unique opportunity to create your dream setup on 4.41 acres. This property would be easy to subdivide into 2 or 3 separate parcels. The 30'x42' shop on site was built in 2015 and is currently setup with living quarters (413 sq ft), kitchen, laundry and a bedroom. The Shop has 14 ft ceilings, 2-13' overhead doors, 14' Mezzanine, its own septic and well, and gas in floor heat The main building site will feature north facing views, has improvements for a future foundation and in ground plumbing for a large two story home and is connected to a 2500 gallon septic system. The third building site sits on the corner of xyz road. Driveway is in and there is a 3rd septic system on site. Originally setup for a future duplex. Shop septic is a 1250 gallon deep trench See photo on the listing for possible options to subdivide. The homesite is on the northside of the camper. It sits on the same elevation as the shop and faces north for views of Bald mountain. Camper will be removed prior to closing. Have your shop space and homesite on the same parcel and subdivide off the rest. The living space in the garage was setup to be temporary once the house was built. Walls and improvements could easily be removed. Commercial use will be restricted by City of zoning depending on the type of business you might want. Buyer to verify all requirements for their intended use with the City direct. Zoning is RR.

Doc Brown created a time machine while living in his shop.That would be cool,especially for getting parts!

 

[Sumboodie]

That listing shows other properties nearby with new construction that is more "conventional" in nature. Is there risk that, over time, the municipality would change the zoning designation from R.R. to something else? This may force you to improve the property and remove the opportunity to run a business there.

Those of us from the lower 48 may think of Alaska as a wide open frontier but we are talking about the Anchorage area here and that may be more civilized than TV would have us believe.

About 60 miles from Anchorage.

 

[Sumboodie]

I lived in Anchorage. Alaska all of my Teen Years and until a month before my 22nd birthday. I saw more than a few "Hope Houses". A Hope House is where they put in a basement and the sub floor, cover the ground floor sub floor with tar paper and move in to the basement while they Hope they can put together what it will take to build the above ground portion.

Never seen one before!

Have lived here almost 20 years.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

You can do what you want. Just don't tell the city