Can anyone tell me the easiest way to locate a survey marker by myself? We have tried using the neighbours metal detector but I think it is not powerful enough. I know the location within a few feet, the size of the bar and even dug up an old tab can before the ground froze but still no iron bars.
Locating Survey Markers?
- Thread starter CanadaBoy
- Start date
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
And you know for sure that irons were installed?
Can you find any of the markers ? If you know the measurements of the yard, you could break out the tape measure and get close. If you're talking a huge lot, the tape measure may not work.
Do you guys up there (Canada) have GIS mapping ?
Do you guys up there (Canada) have GIS mapping ?
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
When the ground isn't frozen you can take a sharp spade and push the shovel at a 45 degree angle to a depth of 6" and continue in 3" intervals until you strike the iron.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
^^^^This^^^^
When we moved into our house back in '93, my son had a metal detector. I started at the front yard fence area and was lucky to find one of the pins and caps. I dug down around it, removed the sod, then went in search for the other pins. Luckily the power company had lines ran back to the neighbors and most of the time they put the lines right on the property lines. Sure enough, way back at the corner of the property, I found the second pin. And the fence was right on the line, so with both being in line with the power company and with being in line with the fence, chances are they have never been removed. Going by the description on the deed, I measured the distance that would show where the other back corner pin would be. I had to figure in error though with not walking straight, sag in the tape measure, so it took a little longer to find the pin. Again, I dug down around it to expose it. The finding of the fourth pin was the same thing. I read the description of the deed, measured down to where it was basically supposed to be, and searching around with the metal detector, found it and uncovered it.
Plus it has been verified by a couple of different surveyors as being correct, but I don't have the paperwork to corroborate it. They were surveying for a possibly new road going through, so I save them a few hours of work by telling them where the pins were, and they in turn verified to me that they were right.
So every year , a couple times a year, we keep the sod from around the pins and keep weed killer around them.
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
Since all my 4 property corners are in sod I found some 4" x 6" flat top rocks and buried them flush on each side of the iron so that even when grass grew over I still would be able to easily find them. No mowing around stakes and nobody knocking them down.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Use a copy of your plot plan, a transit and a 100' tape measure.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
This ^^^^
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I've been thinking about getting some PVC pipe, dig down around the pins, put the PVC around them, then put concrete in the PVC up to the top of the pins.
By me finding two pins, it also gives the neighbor two pins on his property as reference. We did try to locate his back pin on the far side of the property but couldn't find it. He was telling me that he thought it was moved by a previous neighbor.
CharlestonJoe
Well-known member
Something I use for longer distance is a yardage finder. I think that's what its called. Golfers and hunters use them for distance measurements. Its about the size of a camera, you look through it and aim it at whatever, hit the button and it gives you yards or meters to that spot. Most of them break it down to tenth of a yard or meter so you can get fairly close. I got mine at a sporting goods store, not very expensive but prices vary depending upon how fancy and such...
Its a cool tool to have.
But if you just have a small city lot then tape measures work fine.
Its a cool tool to have.
But if you just have a small city lot then tape measures work fine.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Bad idea to be digging around and disturbing the pins.
Zeke
Well-known member
I can't think of any reason to want to know exactly where these pins are unless you're building something. Otherwise it just seems like property paranoia.
I live in the city on a 50 x 100+ lot with a sidewalk in front, an alley in back and fences on both sides. But I have been to many parts of the country where there are no fences. One lawn runs the entire block behind the houses, more or less. I don't think those folks worry about whose leaves are where.
Clik
Well-known member
Old car axles make great pins and are easily detected under ground becuase of the big axle flange.
1jjpop
Well-known member
I have a lot, away from our house [ with a 2 car garage ,garden, storage building , & 2 trailers stored there.] A guy built a 2 car garage close to my driveway. When he moved in he started mowing 6' foot of my lawn . Told him that wasn't his ground.He didn't need to mow it. He Ignored me. When he started laying out his garage , He said the property line was where he was mowing. 6' over on my land ,I said no ,the property line is right over here where the the steel pin was in the ground , set by the surveyors He said oh. I said nice try , but didn't work.... I WON.
It is to build a 26X24 shop/garage so we need to submit site plan. There is I assume irons because I have the R-Plan that shows the size and depth of the irons as surveyed in 1989. I know from the neighbours our house was the only one that underwent renos at that date. He thinks he knows where they are but cant remember for 100% certainty. I think the problem is that I did use our local GIS system to sort of get an idea where one iron is and no way around where it shows. The GIS actually shows our neighbour's house built on our property which is not the case. \just checked it is off by 4 to 5' which is likely why I could not find pin!\
I just bought a 100 foot tape and can take a line off the house to get closer now. I will try the shovel at 45 degrees this time as the metal detector was useless. What is the typical depth of the stakes? I just need to find two and I should be able to locate the garage onto the property just fine.
I just bought a 100 foot tape and can take a line off the house to get closer now. I will try the shovel at 45 degrees this time as the metal detector was useless. What is the typical depth of the stakes? I just need to find two and I should be able to locate the garage onto the property just fine.
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1jjpop, I used to work for a title insurance company and saw stories like that all the time. Had a lady that made a guy tear down his garage wall because it was one brick width (3 1/4) onto her property. Had another tear down their neighbour's porch in the middle of the night. This is not a neighbour issue just need to know I am placing garage within 4 feet from prop lines. City doesnt care one way or the other, its the neigbour disputes or issues selling later that are always the issue.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
They are at grade level.
Hey,
I had a similar problem a few years ago Brand new home, 4 years old. After the first 2 years of ownership, my neighbors and I agreed to put up fences and split the cost. I did all the fence and they contributed to half the cost of the material.
When it came to the property markers, the rented metal detector could not find anything at all. We used a 200' tape measure to estimate where it should be from the property plans and still couldn't find it. We even dug around a few inches to see if we could hit it and had no luck.
Eventually, we reached out to the builder since they were still building in the area (another phase) and they sent the site supervisor out. He also took measurements but after 60 minutes, couldn't find it.
The next day after work, I went to look in the back yard and there were bright orange florescent X's sprayed onto the grass. The metal detector still couldn't find anything. When I call the site supervisor, he said he had someone come out, they couldn't find it either but they measured using the plan drawings and then marked it.
According to the measurements, the X's were in the right place so my neighbors and I were OK with it. The supervisors assessment was that with the type of ground we have - very, very rocky as we are built on an old quarry - it's possible the rebar/rod they used ended up sinking further into the ground with all the heavy construction traffic around.
I had a similar problem a few years ago Brand new home, 4 years old. After the first 2 years of ownership, my neighbors and I agreed to put up fences and split the cost. I did all the fence and they contributed to half the cost of the material.
When it came to the property markers, the rented metal detector could not find anything at all. We used a 200' tape measure to estimate where it should be from the property plans and still couldn't find it. We even dug around a few inches to see if we could hit it and had no luck.
Eventually, we reached out to the builder since they were still building in the area (another phase) and they sent the site supervisor out. He also took measurements but after 60 minutes, couldn't find it.
The next day after work, I went to look in the back yard and there were bright orange florescent X's sprayed onto the grass. The metal detector still couldn't find anything. When I call the site supervisor, he said he had someone come out, they couldn't find it either but they measured using the plan drawings and then marked it.
According to the measurements, the X's were in the right place so my neighbors and I were OK with it. The supervisors assessment was that with the type of ground we have - very, very rocky as we are built on an old quarry - it's possible the rebar/rod they used ended up sinking further into the ground with all the heavy construction traffic around.
Bobdog
Well-known member
Rent a magnetic locator for the day.
I used one a few years back when I did my fence, works like a charm.
Example is below.....(I got one from my local contractors rental house, cost me $50 and took ten minutes to find all 4 markers).
http://www.equipcoservices.com/rentals/underground_locating/pipe_and_cable_locators.html
I used one a few years back when I did my fence, works like a charm.
Example is below.....(I got one from my local contractors rental house, cost me $50 and took ten minutes to find all 4 markers).
http://www.equipcoservices.com/rentals/underground_locating/pipe_and_cable_locators.html
Doug B
Well-known member
Good advise.When I was a kid,My folks owned 28 acres of mostly pine woods.Every spring Dad would go around the property lines clearing brush and repainting corner markers.30 years later,when they sold the place,the proprety lines looked like the day it was surveyed. From'77 till '84, I worked for a land surveyor.We offered an annual service to re-clear and re-paint peoples property lines,but few took us up on it.
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
Just remember:
Deuteronomy 19:14
Your neighbor's landmark, which was put in its place by the men of old times, is not to be moved or taken away in the land of your heritage which the Lord your God is giving you.
Deuteronomy 19:14
Your neighbor's landmark, which was put in its place by the men of old times, is not to be moved or taken away in the land of your heritage which the Lord your God is giving you.
lessersivad
Well-known member
When I first moved into my place which was a repo, the back yard was like a field.
After the 1st summer of mowing it finally started to look like a yard again.
The neighbor ajoining my back yard was fairly sneaky about the "encroached mowing" after I had it looking good again.
He must have only taken 1 swipe with his mower per year as it FINALLY dawned on me a few years later his yard seemed to had gotten bigger judging by the distance of the "mow line" and a tree in his yard.
I dug out the survey paper which showed the irons.
I borrowed a metal detector and a surveyor's wheel and was able to locate all of the irons.
Turned out the neighbor was mowing about 8' of my yard.
Bought some fence posts and installed them just inside of the property line right next to the irons.
Problem solved but the neighbor was none too happy about it....LOL.
R6 Racer
Well-known member
At my last place, a fairly new subdivision, the row of houses behind us were already built & sodded. The spring after we finished building we decided to fence in our backyard. The metal detector found one stake in the front yard. I had to use our survey, the 2 side neighbors surveys & a subdivision survey to confirm the locations of the other 3. Then I had to dig down almost 2 feet to find the others. With all the surveys & a tape measure I was able to find them all, and the measurements were all spot on to the survey!
The big kicker was that I found out that the other contractor had sodded almost 10 feet into my yard. It made the houses behind us look like they had a decent sized back yards. He bamboozeled the buyers by doing this. Had 2 of the people directly behind us put their homes up for sale right after I finished the fence. The third person was a single mom (Korean & spoke very little english) She kept pulling out all the stakes I put in to mark things out. Finally I got her daughter to help with explaining the situation. No problem after that, but there were some really pissed off people due to the whole thing.
Steve
The big kicker was that I found out that the other contractor had sodded almost 10 feet into my yard. It made the houses behind us look like they had a decent sized back yards. He bamboozeled the buyers by doing this. Had 2 of the people directly behind us put their homes up for sale right after I finished the fence. The third person was a single mom (Korean & spoke very little english) She kept pulling out all the stakes I put in to mark things out. Finally I got her daughter to help with explaining the situation. No problem after that, but there were some really pissed off people due to the whole thing.
Steve
Falcon67
Well-known member
I used a cheap HF metal detector to find mine. Found all but one and that one was likely buried under a big power pole. You just get a shovel and dig every false trigger until you find the real pins. Takes a while. We dug up a yard for a house we considered before this one looking for pins. Neighbor ask why, I said I thought the fence was all wrong. It was - 3 feet into the yard to the south and gave up 4' to the alley because they followed the existing fences that were also wrong. Passed on that mess. Find your pins, know your boundaries.
Falcon67
Well-known member
Trouble is coming. We found that out at the old house. was giving up 8' on alley side and west fence was 5' on neighbor side. We agreed to leave the neighbor fence as is and we had the error surveyed. With the paperwork and "in hand paid the sum of $10" made it legal and filed the deed. When the neighbor sold the house, no problem. Do not let these property issues sleep they will come back later.
onewheat
Well-known member
Had a buddy putting up a fence in his back yard after a survey = neighbor's side yard was his back yard and their driveway went around the side of the house to a rear entry garage. The lady behind him got all bitchy about the fence and told him to forget the gate he was going to put in in case her kids wanted to continue to walk through his yard. He skipped the gate, sunk a fence post 2' into her driveway making it a tight fit for her car to get around her house to the garage and her prize rose bushes were now on the inside of his fence. I agree, especially if you are tight, know where your lines are. I'm on 1.3 acres and I know where two of mine are (pie-shaped lot) and the other will be by the utility box at the other corner somewhere but the lot there is still empty. They will survey again before they build or find the pin so it can be marked.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Yes, know your lines and keep them in order. Ever had to chase down the descendants of a former property owner to get them to quit claim for something that should have been taken care of many years before? I've seen it happen, its not easy, nor cheap.
For those who discover that the GIS lines are not very accurate, realize that those lines were originally lines drawn on a tax assessors map, by hand using a rule and other drafting devices. Sometimes it is something as sneaky as up or down sizing the surveyors plat to match the tax map and then mark the lines that way on the tax map. Later GIS comes along, and a company is contracted with to do the conversion from maps (probably clear mylars that are used to make blueprint copies) and these conversions are done by someone looking at a computer screen with the old maps scanned in and clicking on the corner and turn points and turning them into GIS coordinates. It isn't accurate, and isn't warranted to be. Its for reference by the tax assessor and others in the local government.
If you have a recent survey done with a GPS by a surveyor file it as you would any other property plat (with the court clerk, etc) and then have the GIS office for the county enter these coordinates in their system. That WILL accurately place your property on their maps.
Charles
For those who discover that the GIS lines are not very accurate, realize that those lines were originally lines drawn on a tax assessors map, by hand using a rule and other drafting devices. Sometimes it is something as sneaky as up or down sizing the surveyors plat to match the tax map and then mark the lines that way on the tax map. Later GIS comes along, and a company is contracted with to do the conversion from maps (probably clear mylars that are used to make blueprint copies) and these conversions are done by someone looking at a computer screen with the old maps scanned in and clicking on the corner and turn points and turning them into GIS coordinates. It isn't accurate, and isn't warranted to be. Its for reference by the tax assessor and others in the local government.
If you have a recent survey done with a GPS by a surveyor file it as you would any other property plat (with the court clerk, etc) and then have the GIS office for the county enter these coordinates in their system. That WILL accurately place your property on their maps.
Charles
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Power companies have a habit of placing surface mounted transformers and underground cables, right on the lines...... and on the pins. I owned one lot that I was only able to find three pins, the fourth, by several different measurements, kept falling squarely under the slab of a transformer.
Remember, call before you dig, when setting fence posts or anything else. One guy at work called before setting a new mailbox post. He set the post a couple of feet from where they marked a phone cable, but ended up damaging a 50 pair phone line with the post hole digger. Phone company was unhappy, but nothing they could do, as he had called, and the cable was mis-located.
Charles
Remember, call before you dig, when setting fence posts or anything else. One guy at work called before setting a new mailbox post. He set the post a couple of feet from where they marked a phone cable, but ended up damaging a 50 pair phone line with the post hole digger. Phone company was unhappy, but nothing they could do, as he had called, and the cable was mis-located.
Charles
SALIV8
Well-known member
Get a surveyor out there. You will have setbacks to follow and you need to do it right. This way the liability is out of your hands.
Also, don't ever buy a property without having a new survey done before you buy. Make the deal contingent on this. It's worth the $500 for piece of mind. You don't want property line issues.
Also, don't ever buy a property without having a new survey done before you buy. Make the deal contingent on this. It's worth the $500 for piece of mind. You don't want property line issues.
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
That depends on your power company. i designed rural extensions and plats for about 15 years. The underground were 3' off the PL and the overhead were usually 15-25' from the PL. that way we only needed to get an easement from one property owner, usually the requesting party.
sprntpshr
Well-known member
As others have posted, measure the location using your lot survey plan if you have it.
If you have any doubt where the bars are located, hire a surveyor to locate or reset the markers.
A neighbor built a garage, fence and parking lot despite being told he was too close. He "found" the iron bars, construction started, the 400' fence and lot were 3'- 8' into my side yard, he got to remove it. All this was done with a building permit and the building inspector signing off on the fence & parking lot location as OK.
If you have any doubt where the bars are located, hire a surveyor to locate or reset the markers.
A neighbor built a garage, fence and parking lot despite being told he was too close. He "found" the iron bars, construction started, the 400' fence and lot were 3'- 8' into my side yard, he got to remove it. All this was done with a building permit and the building inspector signing off on the fence & parking lot location as OK.
Best Advice. I sell real estate and it is sad the number of good intentioned projects are placed on easements or building set-back lines. See if you can get a lower price asking a surveyor to just mark your corners and building set-back lines.
You will be spending thousands on this project. Spend a few dollars to make sure it is in the correct place.
Tom
GYPSY400
Well-known member
I had to find mine before starting my garage build.. but the city couldn't get me a site plan.. what they did offer me was an engineering print, showing hydro lines, fire hydrants and culverts. I ended up finding one stake (12" down!) and I triangulated from the neighbors across the street to locate the other. never did find the second one, but I'm within 1 square foot of where it should be.. I played it safe and went 5 feet off property line, instead of 4
When I asked about the GIS mapping, I guess I should have stated that it's not completely accurate. My intent was to use it as a reference point to where the pins should be and what the measurements are from the other pins. Some property owners have absolutely no idea where the true property line is.
When in doubt, cal a surveyor and get a legitimate survey done.
Any other way is just half a$$ed. I don't understand why most will take a chance and not survey. Talking to my attorney he said this happens all the time.